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Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

In honor of Getting Screwed by the Government Day, if you're not having a tea party that is

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-wed-geithner-tax-0415-apr15,0,6037514.story


IRS workers see double standard on tax errors
By Tom Hamburger and Ralph Vartabedian | Tribune Newspapers
April 15, 2009
The Treasury secretary, who oversees the IRS, didn't pay all his taxes. Neither did five other top nominees for the Obama administration, or their spouses.

Now, as Wednesday's tax deadline looms, some Americans are wondering why they should comply with the arcane requirements of the Internal Revenue Service when top administration officials failed to do the same. Even some IRS employees are upset at what they see as a double standard.

The most criticized example has been Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, who admitted not paying $34,000 in payroll and Social Security taxes, saying his failure to pay was an oversight. Five other nominees disclosed similar tax issues, including one as recently as two weeks ago when Kathleen Sebelius, President Barack Obama's pick for secretary of health and human services, admitted she didn't pay $7,040.

"Our members are upset and angry," said Colleen Kelley, president of the National Treasury Employees Union, referring to concern bubbling up within the IRS over unusually strict rules that can cost agents their jobs if they make a mistake.

Stroger floats partial sales-tax rollback In some cases, IRS employees have lost jobs for simply filing a late return or failing to report a few hundred dollars of interest income.

In an interview Tuesday, Kelley said the Geithner case underlines the need for a change of the rules governing IRS employees.

"My issue is not that I want Geithner or anyone else punished," Kelley said. "I want there to be a re-examination of the law that holds IRS employees to a separate standard: one in which a simple mistake can cost them their jobs with no right of appeal."

Robert Schriebman, a California tax lawyer who has testified before Congress, said his clients are seething over the tough treatment they get from the IRS, while some in the president's Cabinet apparently were able to duck paying their taxes.

"Politically powerful people are less likely to get bothered by the IRS," Schriebman said. "It is more than a question of fairness. Not only is the IRS looking away from confronting influential people, the IRS is getting a lot tougher and nastier toward the little guy."

IRS employees have reported that taxpayers are occasionally citing the Geithner case when they are asked to pay their tax bills. "It's making the compliance conversation harder," Kelley said.

Geithner's $34,000 in unpaid taxes pales in comparison to the more than $128,000 owed by Tom Daschle, Obama's first choice to run health and human services. But Geithner's position overseeing the IRS has made his case particularly galling in the public's mind.

IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman told reporters Monday that there is no discrimination when it comes to tax enforcement.

"The American people are pretty smart," he said. "They understand that people who are nominated for high office are going to be put under a level of scrutiny. They also understand the tax code is incredibly complex."



-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine





My wife didn't pay city taxs last year. We came from flordia and there arn't any city taxs there. The tax code is a jumbled mess. I doubt anybody has squeaked through without an error. Keep in mind these people make millions, and about 7,040 or even 34,000 come out to be a small% of thier taxes. The tax code is more broken and overpowered than lash princes riding steamtanks, pulled by Nob bikers with the Magic lore of slannesh. Oh, and they are all vampire counts, even the steam tanks.

And whilst you're pointing and shouting at the boogeyman in the corner, you're missing the burglar coming in through the window.

Well, Duh! Because they had a giant Mining ship. If you had a giant mining ship you would drill holes in everything too, before you'd destory it with a black hole 
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

I enjoy the usages of the "but billy did the same thing" defense. You don't see it much after elementary school, but it's refreshing to see.
   
Made in us
!!Goffik Rocker!!





(THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK)

I encourage these people to not pay their taxes. The consequences will make for an amusing series of separate news stories.

----------------

Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad 
   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair





In your base, ignoring your logic.

In some places they have no tax laws. A restaurant owner around here wasn't paying taxes at all and was cited. When he went to court the lawyer showed that there was no tax law and that paying taxes was voluntary. The owner was off the hook and they now offer the cheapest food in the area. $4.75 for lunch, $7.00 for dinner.
   
Made in us
!!Goffik Rocker!!





(THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK)

Were those state or federal taxes?

----------------

Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad 
   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair





In your base, ignoring your logic.

I believe federal, the FBI stormed the building.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

I want there to be a re-examination of the law that holds IRS employees to a separate standard: one in which a simple mistake can cost them their jobs with no right of appeal."


That does seem very unfair indeed.

If the aforementioned people at the top were employees of the IRS then they should have been fired as well if that is in their contracts.

The tax system over there seems very confusing is it as bad as it seems ?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/04/15 17:44:47


The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
 
   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

The level of confusion directly correlates with the level of intent to evade. It isn't hard to pay the maximum amount, and allow the state to refund you. Its exceedingly difficult to account for all possible deductions, especially with any degree of accuracy.

Inevitably that's where most audits dig up dirt, improper deductions.

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair





In your base, ignoring your logic.

It is confusing, a friend of mine who is a libertarian says that most taxes is voluntary and that when tax officials are asked where it says we have to pay taxes they say that we just have to.

There are tax codes, but in some cases no laws saying that we have to follow them.

I could go all conspiracy by saying that politicians don't pay taxes because they know they don't have to and they only "punish" some of them to make it look like we all have to.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

So... do you think that level of complexity is almost left that way so they know they can nail person X for not paying Y years later ?

EDIT : I was under the impression that therehad been plenty of legal cases where the old "income tax/whatever is illegal/against the constituition/stupid argument of the week" had been disproven ?

I'm painfully aware I'm discussing this based off of a few threads of fora and stuf I've seen on TV but I do get the impression that almost no one seems to fully get your tax laws.

Complexity due to the sheer size of you I guess ?

EDIT 2 : size refering to the country, not a fat joke !

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/04/15 17:58:45


The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
 
   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair





In your base, ignoring your logic.

No, I think they're getting people to give money when they don't have to.

Like the red cross sneaking into your house at night and taking your blood vampire style.


EDIT: You are right about the tax laws being complex and it being caused by the country being so large. Most americans also don't know how our government works either.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/04/15 18:01:03


 
   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

They err on the side of 'take more' because if they take too little they can lose their jobs. And because if they take too much its generally less painful for everyone involved to have a refund issued. As opposed to sending out an unexpected bill.

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

Most americans also don't know how our government works either.


I very much doubt that's limited to the USA. There's a frightening number of people over here who moan as they didn't elect Brown, and a vaguely terrifying number of folks they showed around the time of the USA election who confidentially asserted they were going to vote for Obama ( maybe 1 for McCain) in America's forthcoming election.

Despite the whole lack of the actually being American thing.

Still.... I like to think that's just cheap TV.

..right ?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/04/15 18:06:21


The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
 
   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair





In your base, ignoring your logic.

I wish, a lot of stupid people vote.

A show once asked people who they voted for and then asked them a question. Here are several of them.

Q: Who said that there were 57 states?
A: Sarah Palin (actually Obama)
Q:Who did you vote for?
A: OBAMA!! Yeah!

Q: Who has the majority of congress?
A: Republicans...(Actually democrats)
Q:Who did you vote for?
A:Obama.

Q: Who has spent almost a million dollars on a warddrobe?
A:Sarah Palin(Actually Correct)
Q:Who did you vote for?
A: Obama.

   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury



True enough.

..but..sometimes the Emperor isn't wearing any clothes y'dig ?

The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
 
   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

Wasn't that done by this guy?

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair





In your base, ignoring your logic.

It might've been. I'm not too sure, but I know the media definitely got Obama into office.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

Surely it was the electorate ?

The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
 
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

halonachos wrote:It might've been. I'm not too sure, but I know the media definitely got Obama into office.
-

And, you know, the majority of Americans that voted in the election.
   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair





In your base, ignoring your logic.

Polonius wrote:
halonachos wrote:It might've been. I'm not too sure, but I know the media definitely got Obama into office.
-

And, you know, the majority of Americans that voted in the election.


That were influenced greatly by the media.

There's a book about this. Obama and the Media's Slobbering Love Affair or something along those lines.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

You seem to have a strangely submissive view of the american populace which appears to be vastly at odds at comments made elsewhere on this very board, even by yourself.

SUre the media has an affect-- no company woud waste those millionsof £/$ advertising crap each year otherwise-- but there has to be to it than "the TV said so".

Also...
There's a book about this.
..so it's the media's fault because ..the media said so...

hmm... what ?

The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
 
   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair





In your base, ignoring your logic.

Yes, the media is telling us that it is wrong.

The thing about america is that there is a vast amount of people and I have different views on those people.

Some americans are awesome, some are pansies, some just give up, some will fight on till death, some will always criticize the government, some will never criticize the government. There's too many people living here for me to have only one view on the american people. I don't like obama because he bows to kings and his wife shakes hands with queens. He also makes us look weak, I've had egyptians and palastinians say that obama doesn't do america justice.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

Hmm... well as another outsider :

Obama doesn't make you look weak, he actually makes you look like a country involved in and capable of understanding the realities of the 21st century.

Most of the world thought, indeed thinks, his predecessor and his administration was perhaps the worst thing to happen to the USA since...well... independence ? ..nah.. for a long time anyway.

Your standing in the world diminished and your general economy slowed and then collapsed.

Bowed to kings ? WTF ? Where's that then ?

Shook hands with Queens ? What do you think she should do ? Chin her one ? Your complaint is you currently have a leader who isn't an embarrassment when he goes abroad ? You do understand how diplomacy, indeed basic manners actually work yes ? What should she have done then? You do know Britain's not some feudal state yeah ? ..yeah ?

Bush and his administration didn't do your country justice as he made you appear small, petty and ineffectual bullies to the rest of the world. Sure your country was hurt, terribly and by evil men who deserve to die. But what he did and what America let him do lost you so much standing in the world I really doubt you'll ever get it back.

Not least the fact that in my lifetime I remember hearing/being told..hell even thinking once upon a time.. that America was the good guys and when they turned up they'd be here to help. Barely anyone thinks that anymore I'm afraid.

I'm not for one moment saying that Obama is the/a messiah or anything-- I'm thoroughly atheistic -- but he's a step up from what you had for sure.




The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
 
   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair





In your base, ignoring your logic.

He bowed to the king of Saudi Arabia. As to the whole shaking hand thing, its kind of like bad relations. The first lady should not shake hands with the queen as she is below her in status.

Obama shouldn't bow because he is a king's equal. This is the same way that I don't expect a king to bow to our president.

We were surprised that Obama wasn't going to send the pirates the money and some fruit baskets for their problems. Instead he sent special forces, I give him credit for that. He wants to talk to ahmenijadidad(the gy with a funny name) and doesn't sound like he would do anything if they did make a nuke.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

I would argue that showing basic manners when abroad in a foreign country, when you are the guest, is very wise and..well..polite.

Whose below who in status ? I assure you aside from the .003% of the population who think the royal family are chosen by God to rule us all no one over here gave a feth that they shook hands. And..literally thousands of people have shaken hands with the Queen.

If you mean the sovereign head of another nation is below the first lady well.....err.... OH KAY .

Because clearly you could afford or indeed need another war in the middle east, the last/current ones have worked out so well.

You'll notice that a lot of people, even some Americans on this very board, don't really have a problem with Iran having a nuke or hold that perhaps that's none of America's business, at least currently.

...I believe you were on about the media having a vast effect earlier... hmm... yeah.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/04/15 19:20:42


The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
 
   
Made in us
!!Goffik Rocker!!





(THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK)

We were surprised that Obama wasn't going to send the pirates the money and some fruit baskets for their problems. Instead he sent special forces, I give him credit for that. He wants to talk to ahmenijadidad(the gy with a funny name) and doesn't sound like he would do anything if they did make a nuke.


Who is we?

----------------

Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad 
   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair





In your base, ignoring your logic.

Me and several like minded, red-blooded americans.


I wouldn't have an issue with Iran having a nuke if their leader wasn't a nut case. I mean, how can you let a guy who said the holocaust never happened have a nuke? He's also said that he wants to wipe Israel off the face of the earth.


PS: We're winning in Iraq and we were winning in Vietnam.

PPS: Shuma, please ignore me. For the love of god please put me on you're ignore list, I don't like talking to you or at you.


Crap, I seem to have derailed this thread. No more Obama talk for me, at least for now.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2009/04/15 19:54:36


 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

reds8n wrote:Hmm... well as another outsider :

Obama doesn't make you look weak, he actually makes you look like a country involved in and capable of understanding the realities of the 21st century.

Most of the world thought, indeed thinks, his predecessor and his administration was perhaps the worst thing to happen to the USA since...well... independence ? ..nah.. for a long time anyway.

Your standing in the world diminished and your general economy slowed and then collapsed.

Bowed to kings ? WTF ? Where's that then ?

Shook hands with Queens ? What do you think she should do ? Chin her one ? Your complaint is you currently have a leader who isn't an embarrassment when he goes abroad ? You do understand how diplomacy, indeed basic manners actually work yes ? What should she have done then? You do know Britain's not some feudal state yeah ? ..yeah ?

Bush and his administration didn't do your country justice as he made you appear small, petty and ineffectual bullies to the rest of the world. Sure your country was hurt, terribly and by evil men who deserve to die. But what he did and what America let him do lost you so much standing in the world I really doubt you'll ever get it back.

Not least the fact that in my lifetime I remember hearing/being told..hell even thinking once upon a time.. that America was the good guys and when they turned up they'd be here to help. Barely anyone thinks that anymore I'm afraid.

I'm not for one moment saying that Obama is the/a messiah or anything-- I'm thoroughly atheistic -- but he's a step up from what you had for sure.





And yet he went hat 'n hand to Europe last month and got all of NOTHING. Say what you will but the Bushies I and II were able to garner more support than nothing.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

reds8n wrote:I would argue that showing basic manners when abroad in a foreign country, when you are the guest, is very wise and..well..polite.


respectfully,

You have a fundamental misread of the American psyche. We will bow as equals to each other, but the President of the United States bows to no one except his wife. I believe the British act the same.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
 
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