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Everytime someone posts their tyranid army list it never has a Biovore in it! Whats wrong? Are they really that worthless?

-I think an Artillery model worth a max of 55 points with a range of 48" and after it shoots and misses the mines enter play and can distract or drift into the enemy is a good thing. The oppenent can either waste 1 unit's shooting phase to kill the cluster/mine or he can leave it alone and it ends up drifting into his units.

HiveFleetGoliath wrote:Everytime someone posts their tyranid army list it never has a Biovore in it! Whats wrong? Are they really that worthless?

-I think an Artillery model worth a max of 55 points with a range of 48" and after it shoots and misses the mines enter play and can distract or drift into the enemy is a good thing. The oppenent can either waste 1 unit's shooting phase to kill the cluster/mine or he can leave it alone and it ends up drifting into his units.

OR you could have a carnifex.

I use them all the time... With bio-acid mines you'll have a hard time taking out anything above AV12, but I've actually done it pretty regularly. Launching 3 mines per turn is great, especially since no matter where you hit the vehicle you always get your 2D6+3.

It's also one the only MEQ killers we have, and since it causes pinning it's fantastic. And though people don't think about it much, if it misses it probably is still going to be useful, just as you've said. I've made people very nervous about those floating mines moving D6 every turn.

They are cheap as you've said, and it's the longest range weapon we have. I always take 3 because they also can sit and contest objectives... A tactic I've had to use and done well with.

whocares wrote:
OR you could have a carnifex.

I really hate those people who spam the carnifexes, grow some balls please.

Grunt for christ seems to have an okay way of using biovores.

In my opinion though the points could be used in much better places.

Just like whocares said, a carnifex could be taken instead and is a more distracting, powerful and awesome unit.

Also one of the main reasons biovores don't show up much is due to the fact that they take up a heavy support choice. Which could be used more wisely with zoanthropes or a carnifex.

On another point I tend to use a mix of units in my armies and it always works out, but the biovores just never follow through for me so I don't take them anymore.

You can also use Carnifexes as Elites though, so you could have 1 thing of warriors, and 2 cheap carnifexes, then 1 Heavy carni, Biovore brood, and a Zoanthrope brood.

methra3 wrote:Grunt for christ seems to have an okay way of using biovores.

In my opinion though the points could be used in much better places.

Just like whocares said, a carnifex could be taken instead and is a more distracting, powerful and awesome unit.

See that's what I like about biovores... No one pays any attention to them until they start pinning units and damaging tanks. They're inconspicuous and I really like that. It's more of a psychological thing but it really does work for me. Where they shine for me especially is in apoc where FOC doesn't matter. They end up putting out a lot of mines and make people nervous because there's always just so many units on the board.

Thanks for the help, i'm just painting my Biovore and mines right now, and can't wait to start using him in matches.

My friend that used to play Tyranids used Biovores in almost every game in the beginning but just dropped them completely later. Many of the same reasons as mentioned here. Carnifexes and Zoanthropes are just so much better for the Heavy Support Slots.

Also the need to have Carnifex and Zoanthropes are pretty high as heavy armored vehicles (which I consider 13 or 14) are fairly popular. Warp Blast and Carnifex strength are really the only two ways to have a good chance of taking those out. Yes Bioacid spores can do it but that requires some good sacrifices to the dice gods at times.

The most important thing here that I did not see even mentioned is Kill Points. For some crazy insane reason, some people count every volley of mines from biovores as a KP for the opponent. So thankful that I don't know a single soul that plays that way but I hear thats a popular ruling.

I never left home without them in 3rd ed, but in 5th they are overshadowed by the power of Zoanthropes!

If I had a fourth Heavy slot they might make it in, but since I don't they get left home.


If you like spore mines buying them as fast attack seems to be more efficient, not to mention that its Less KP on the table.

you can only have one slot of zoans, meaning max of 3 and they deploy separately

same for biovores but they deploy as a unit

that leaves you one carnifex slot, or elites slots if you need more

i would definately take zoanthroapes for their anti armor potential, but biovores can be great too, and very versatile

a full squad of acid biovored goes for 55 a pop, which gives you a ton anti armor potential, a squad of three for 165 for those long range and versatile shots it's hard to get elsewhere, seems worth it to me

a carni is going to cost you an arm and a leg point wise to match these guys

if i were fielding a nid force, i would have one slot of each, zoanthrope, biovore, and carni

HiveFleetGoliath wrote:

whocares wrote:
OR you could have a carnifex.

I really hate those people who spam the carnifexes, grow some balls please.

I don't need to, I glued them to my carnifex's chin for safe keeping.

That aside, personally I'm more of a gaunt rush player. I only own three carnifexen and only ever use two.

I was just giving the reason biovores are never used. You have a better option in the same slot. Or, at least, an option the majority of people see as better. It's like why you never see lightning clawed terminators. Are they terrible? No. But if it's that or TH/SS...

I think it depends on your playing style and who you play against. I used to use 3 carnifexes but they're just too big in terms of targets with the true LOS rules in 5th. I face lots of exorcist rounds and snipers, almost no plasma or anything else. Big guys go down quickly where I play so I play with 2 fexes on average and the biovores to force my opponent to prioritize targets.

Usually biovores don't take any hits and they're free to put out rounds the whole game (giving me a good chance of destroying at least 1 tank). If they do take rounds my fexes end up living long enough to charge in. I don't think you have to have 'either or'. I think you can have both.

Well, despite the fact that biovore shots can do decent damage, can can contest objectives, in a KP game, it's just like catapulting free killpoints to your enemies.

No one where I play counts them as a KP unless they're coming in as a brood (i.e. fast attack slot), so that doesn't have any bearing on whether or not I use them.

Personally, counting the Biovore-fired spore mines as KPs is - well - lame. If you're going to get that bent out of shape about winning, you may want to find a different hobby.

I kind of feel the same way. How can an artillery shell be counted as a kill point? Just because it's floating doesn't mean it's a 'unit'. If we can all agree that they don't count as a KP I think it definitely makes the biovore worth it. I don't know if anyone has the luck, but I've taken out predators on a regular basis with them. I've killed a lot of marines too by just putting mines into 10 man units over a turn or two and getting 7 chances to roll a 5 or 6.

Biovores are a decent, underappreciated unit. In comparison to a very good, popular, and scary unit that is a carnifex.
AP3 barrage shots WILL cause wounds, even at S3. Plus its fun to aim near a T7 carnifex and watch it laugh off the damage.

I only field them occationally, for the reasons stated above. Biovores have 6 wounds, but low toughnes making them succeptable to ID. Low leadership, despite Brood Telepathy, makes synaptic cover needed. A Carnifex needs synapse only vs force weapons and thier ilk.

Honestly, KP missions are not that bad for them , dawn of war is about as nasty. No chance to fire turn 1, and little chance for a decent position.

I only really appriciate the bonus vs armor when scatter is in play, I do not generally aim them at vehicles.

For fun, delploy them into a bunker and watch hilarity ensue.

Also note:
Field three or zero. Nothing else is viable.

Shrug

Also note:
Field three or zero. Nothing else is viable.

Absolutely true. I used to just have one and then two but once I got 3 I really saw it hit home against everything.

You aren't paying the points for the scattered spore mines as a unit, so it shouldn't count as a KP just because your shot scattered.

HiveFleetGoliath wrote:You aren't paying the points for the scattered spore mines as a unit, so it shouldn't count as a KP just because your shot scattered.

Compare to a devilfish with drones. They are sometimes considered a separate KP if they are deployed from their tank, because of the wording "forms a separate unit..." or similar.
How about the Last Chancers (4th ed IG) that can be split up into small subunits. Are they one KP each or one KP together?

I do play launched biovores as not worth a KP, but it's not always clear cut in the rules.

Biovores are a pain in the ass, i think people should use them more often. Tho they are really ugly models...

HiveFleetGoliath wrote:Are they really that worthless?

YES

Ghetto_Fight wrote:Biovores are a pain in the ass, i think people should use them more often. Tho they are really ugly models...

I actually rather like the model.

Mellon wrote:

HiveFleetGoliath wrote:You aren't paying the points for the scattered spore mines as a unit, so it shouldn't count as a KP just because your shot scattered.

Compare to a devilfish with drones. They are sometimes considered a separate KP if they are deployed from their tank, because of the wording "forms a separate unit..." or similar.
How about the Last Chancers (4th ed IG) that can be split up into small subunits. Are they one KP each or one KP together?

I do play launched biovores as not worth a KP, but it's not always clear cut in the rules.

Here's the difference:
Drones and the like have rules that specifically state they become a separate unit that the player can control independently. Spore mines are the actual rounds fired by a piece of artillery, drift on the wind, and simply have a delayed blast component if they don't land on something with a heartbeat. Saying that every mine counts as a KP is WAAC thinking, and - not to be inflammatory - complete rubbish.

Generally people I play only count KP if they are FA.

That said, if people bring it up there is a fun point to be made about the FAQ stating all tyranid units are infantry unless stated otherwise. Spore mines running can be _brutal_.

Even so, fired spore mines are never used if they hit or explode when fired. No model and no unit, simply a barrage hit. Spore mines are used when biovores miss and it matters.

A FAQ covers that, but iirc it may not be GWs. But I think the models are fine.

shrug

Counting them as KP if you take them as a Fast Attack choice makes sense. Those fired from the Biovore, however... like you said: if they hit or explode, there is no model/unit - they are just bullets.

whocares wrote:

HiveFleetGoliath wrote:Everytime someone posts their tyranid army list it never has a Biovore in it! Whats wrong? Are they really that worthless?

-I think an Artillery model worth a max of 55 points with a range of 48" and after it shoots and misses the mines enter play and can distract or drift into the enemy is a good thing. The oppenent can either waste 1 unit's shooting phase to kill the cluster/mine or he can leave it alone and it ends up drifting into his units.

OR you could have a carnifex.

Which requires you to get to CC to overcome armor saves that EVERY other race has. The Biovore drops an AP3 shot at 48" which is MORE than worth 55 points.

I would rather have 3 Biovores than pretty much any Carnifex at 165 points. The fex STILL has to slog across the field to reach the enemy, while the Biovores are killing them round 1.

The only disadvantage is the idiotic KP rule, which only matters in 1/3rd of games. That is worth potentially wiping MEQ squads every round.

I love the Biovore.

Very true.... I think the discussion is most certainly done. Everyone's made some good points. And in the end, I'm still going to take 3 in most games (except for <1000 skirmishes).

I count them as KPs because they can contest objectives.