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My friend has been telling me for the last few days that the eldar are cheap in 5th edition.
I think theres no ground and he refuses to tell me why.
I dont want fellow eldar fans posting on here(unless you know why) i just want people who think the eldar are cheap to come and say why.

They have stupid sexy elves, just look at the ass on those Banshee's.. Its too distracting for all the other forces to fight.

Why let it bother you if they're not going to defend their statement?

Your friend doesnt happen to be an IG player ?

cheap as in cheesy, unfair, easy to win with?
The general tournament rankings seem to argue against this.

I think he means cheap as in "You can get a whole lot of models off disappointed Eldar players cheap." In which case I agree.

I said the tournament thing to him already.
(he means easy to win with and yes he plays IG and rarely SM

Nataku135 wrote:I said the tournament thing to him already.
(he means easy to win with and yes he plays IG and rarely SM

Aha! (this is a guess )

with IG's supposedly over powered new codex he is mad he lost to eldar.

we haven't fought with the new codex yet. Is it really over poowered

No , Eldar havnt benefited anything from 5th edition.

If anything their main AP star cannon is nerfed to death.

LunaHound wrote:No , Eldar havnt benefited anything from 5th edition.

If anything their main AP star cannon is nerfed to death.

Well... one of their units has gained, and have won UK GT's (which actually means something because of their heat system)... Jetbike Seer Council.

Why?

In 4th ed combat resolution penalties were based on outnumbering. A seercouncil wasn't going to be outnumbering anybody, so they were easily tarpitted because while they're tough as nails, they don't have any power weapons.

In 5th ed, combat resolution penalties are based on whoever deals the most wounds. While they might not be able to put out the wounds like berzerkers or slugga boys, the seer council is extremely durable, far more so than other CC specialists, so even if they only do 4 wounds after armor saves, they're likely to have taken none in return, making it very likely for their enemy to run away or suffer extra wounds due to No Retreat.

Because of this, you can't really tarpit them, and they can easily kill one unit per turn, with very little that reliably stops them, and that's entirely because of 5th ed.

willydstyle wrote:

LunaHound wrote:No , Eldar havnt benefited anything from 5th edition.

If anything their main AP star cannon is nerfed to death.

Well... one of their units has gained, and have won UK GT's (which actually means something because of their heat system)... Jetbike Seer Council.

Why?

In 4th ed combat resolution penalties were based on outnumbering. A seercouncil wasn't going to be outnumbering anybody, so they were easily tarpitted because while they're tough as nails, they don't have any power weapons.

In 5th ed, combat resolution penalties are based on whoever deals the most wounds. While they might not be able to put out the wounds like berzerkers or slugga boys, the seer council is extremely durable, far more so than other CC specialists, so even if they only do 4 wounds after armor saves, they're likely to have taken none in return, making it very likely for their enemy to run away or suffer extra wounds due to No Retreat.

Because of this, you can't really tarpit them, and they can easily kill one unit per turn, with very little that reliably stops them, and that's entirely because of 5th ed.

To this I only utter two words

Biker Nobz

LucasLAD wrote:

To this I only utter two words

Biker Nobz

that's actually 9 words...

anywho, Eldar are FAR from the broken cheesfest that they were in 4th, but they are still a hard army in the hands of a competent general.

your friends problem is that you are probably a better general than he is and he is bi**hing about your army because he doesn't realize this.

First of all i'm not bi**hing about it.
Fourtun + wraithguard.
Yeah my friend is a better general than me. Hell he knows what he's doing in the entire game before it starts.
Me and the others probably started calling Eldar cheap is because all the time he is gloating/bragging about how good the are.

Eldar are good, they are also extremely fragile and one of the somewhat more difficult armies to command. If you let an Eldar army do what each aspect or unit is designed to do, you're not going to fare well.

If your friend is bragging or being immature and it's taking away from gameplay or your ability to learn, just don't play with him.

Holofields are still cheesy although Falcons themselves are not as good and Prisms are just one gun.

Eldar are not really cheesy anymore but they have that reputation going back to their last codex, and even the new codex in 4th ed. But 5th ed makes everyone friends again.

The only thing cheesy in the book is Jetbike Autarch with Reaper Launcher. And that is more cool than cheesy anyway. That and maybe Swooping Hawks. Which are more cool than cheesy. And maybe hard to use anyway.

dragonfire wrote:First of all i'm not bi**hing about it.
Fourtun + wraithguard.

Eldar are cheap because of that single tough unit, that costs waay too many points?

Have you tried shooting them with a battlecannon?

Any game will always be hard if you bring the wrong tools.

Try eating trifle with a circular saw.

I play drop troops.
But i will say it could be of him telling us that a unit is only
good at one thing then proceding on how that unit is the best unit in its type in the game.

drop pods wouldn't be particularly great against an eldar force, because eldar forces tend to be quick, they can get the majority of their units on you, you want to stick as a group so you can't get singled out, unfortunately drop pods do the opposite

I think he could be referring to Eldrad as the driving force behind the cheapness. A seer council is a wicked army, I have had one tear up my horde orks.
That being said, they are by no means an unstoppable army, just one that has a particularly good gimmick, and one that can be stopped with any number of units, it just so happens that many take all comers lists will lack a definitive answer to it, esp. orks.

I haven't played since 5th (stopped just before it came out), but I'm just looking at starting up again.

I've been looking at expanding my eldar force, which was wraithguard and wraithlord based (just love the whole wriath... thing).


What changed at 5th to make wraithguard so uber all of a sudden, sure in 4th they were tough, but even with the likes of fortune and conceal I've had them wiped out without inflicting a single casualty before.

puree wrote:I haven't played since 5th (stopped just before it came out), but I'm just looking at starting up again.

I've been looking at expanding my eldar force, which was wraithguard and wraithlord based (just love the whole wriath... thing).


What changed at 5th to make wraithguard so uber all of a sudden, sure in 4th they were tough, but even with the likes of fortune and conceal I've had them wiped out without inflicting a single casualty before.

Nothing except that they are a Hard to Kill Troop unit. But if I was paying nearly 400 pts plus using the support of a Farseer, they dang well better be hard to kill!

As everyone has said, 5th ed Eldar are not that bad.

Edit: For Grammer.

I play Orks and the goy I mainly play with uses nothing but Eldar. I can say with confidence that no amount of rule changes will differ the cheesiness of some of their units. First their walkers, with scatterlasers they can take out anything on the field aside from medium to heavy tanks. They have scout, so if eldar goes first hes gonna hit your units first turn, probably with 24 guided str 6 shots from the farseer. rigged. theyre also way too cheap pointswise, he gets three walkers for like 150-200. Sure they have 10 armor, but nothing ever gets a chance to hit them as theyll annihilate anything before it gets a chance. Sure the scatters are only ap 6, but with that number of shots savings throws dont really matter. The farseer is also rigged, two pyshic powers means an unreasonably cheap guide doom combo on anything near him, not to mention 3 wounds. three!!?!?!

But indigo? they all only have 3 toughness! so what!? he can fortune anything so he won't miss any saves, he'll run infantry screens with invlunerable 5+ invlun warlock saves, and of course, the jetbike seer council. 2+ ranger saves in the open, cool cover rules GW. Warp Spiders have 3+ saves, why not? Guardians can fire heavy weapons even after moving, sounds good...

3 Wraithlords is incredibly cheesy, 10 str 8 toughness. 8?! why not make it 20, same difference. 3 wounds on a 8 toughness unit, sounds reasonable. All he has to do is eliminate any tanks and he wins with contesting wraithlords. Not to mention a wraithlord will only really run you about 150. freakin absurd.

the eldar have no weaknesses in the range game, they have weapons for every situation available to nearly every unit. horde, scatters. termies, starscannons. tanks, bright lances (rigged weapon). All their range is usually 36, so theyll be outshooting most anyone.

Lets make them all fleet of foot too, just for good measure.

Now i don't want anyone thinking that I get beat all the time by Eldar. Get in close, they'll crumple for the most part. put enough shots on em(I mean a lot of shots cause of fortune), they cant make all of their saves. the problem is they have way too many different weapons, so they're never really out of place in any combat situation. They're too shifty, I know thats the Eldars thing, but enough is enough. they'll beat most anyone in initiative anytime, so banshees mean death to everyone, even if they're charged they still get the bonus attack. rigged.

that being said there are a lot of down points to eldar. Guardians are a poor excuse for troops, they fold against most anything. Most of their units, aside from harley and banshees, fold easily in CC. small unit size, low troop count, small margin for error, all those things work against the eldar.

Even if they can't be called cheap, they are still really annoying to play against, expect to be frustrated a lot against eldar. Just run run run, stay in cover, and get to the CC, and watch their pretty little heads roll.

Ummm... Nobs with claws wreck wraithlords in CC. 4 attacks on the charge that wound on 3s means you're likely to kill the WL just in time for it to be your turn again.

And honestly, T3 is a huge hindrance.... it means that even the 3+ save units start folding really fast.

QFT.

Anyway, who says Eldar are cheap? Everything's made of metal, it costs a bloody fortune!! :-D

I hate how nerfed I am in 5E. Hopefully the new Codex will allow me to rock up and win again.

willydstyle wrote:Ummm... Nobs with claws wreck wraithlords in CC. 4 attacks on the charge that wound on 3s means you're likely to kill the WL just in time for it to be your turn again.

And honestly, T3 is a huge hindrance.... it means that even the 3+ save units start folding really fast.

You can all but guarantee that the warithlord will kill two of the nobs. As a monstrous creature he ignores armor, causes instant death, and with ID the painboys save is useless, you can cybork, but thats only a 33% save. you still need 3s and 3s to wound, and even if you kill the one, theres two more after it to shoot and hack you away. Not to mention you can load him up with ap1 and ap2 weapons that also ignore painboy saves. Even if you kill one, hes probably taken out 2-3 nobs in a turn, and theyll run unless you got the Warboss with him. But the warboss will get picked on and killed as an IC, so youve taken out one, lost an HQ or 2 nobs, either way, and opened yourself up for more ap2, 2+ wound fun for next shooting phase.

about T3, the guy i play usually runs double farseer with fortune, so hes giving his guys double saves on the 3+ which means im only killing 2 oout of 12 spiders with like 40 shots. hell commonly save 13 out of 15 wounds. T3 is only a hinderance on the turn when i charge, after that im at 4+ to wound. Since everything with the eldar usually passes Ld tests, they won't run and I'm pretty much on even footing with them next CC, where they will attack first, always.

indigo_jones wrote:

willydstyle wrote:Ummm... Nobs with claws wreck wraithlords in CC. 4 attacks on the charge that wound on 3s means you're likely to kill the WL just in time for it to be your turn again.

And honestly, T3 is a huge hindrance.... it means that even the 3+ save units start folding really fast.

You can all but guarantee that the warithlord will kill two of the nobs. As a monstrous creature he ignores armor, causes instant death, and with ID the painboys save is useless, you can cybork, but thats only a 33% save. you still need 3s and 3s to wound, and even if you kill the one, theres two more after it to shoot and hack you away. Not to mention you can load him up with ap1 and ap2 weapons that also ignore painboy saves. Even if you kill one, hes probably taken out 2-3 nobs in a turn, and theyll run unless you got the Warboss with him. But the warboss will get picked on and killed as an IC, so youve taken out one, lost an HQ or 2 nobs, either way, and opened yourself up for more ap2, 2+ wound fun for next shooting phase.

about T3, the guy i play usually runs double farseer with fortune, so hes giving his guys double saves on the 3+ which means im only killing 2 oout of 12 spiders with like 40 shots. hell commonly save 13 out of 15 wounds. T3 is only a hinderance on the turn when i charge, after that im at 4+ to wound. Since everything with the eldar usually passes Ld tests, they won't run and I'm pretty much on even footing with them next CC, where they will attack first, always.

Don't need to run them as a Nob squad, but just a single nob in a boyz squad does just fine.

indigo_jones wrote:

Whine...

Now i don't want anyone thinking that I get beat all the time by Eldar. Get in close, they'll crumple for the most part. put enough shots on em(I mean a lot of shots cause of fortune), they cant make all of their saves. the problem is they have way too many different weapons, so they're never really out of place in any combat situation. They're too shifty, I know thats the Eldars thing, but enough is enough. they'll beat most anyone in initiative anytime, so banshees mean death to everyone, even if they're charged they still get the bonus attack. rigged.

that being said there are a lot of down points to eldar. Guardians are a poor excuse for troops, they fold against most anything. Most of their units, aside from harley and banshees, fold easily in CC. small unit size, low troop count, small margin for error, all those things work against the eldar.

Even if they can't be called cheap, they are still really annoying to play against, expect to be frustrated a lot against eldar. Just run run run, stay in cover, and get to the CC, and watch their pretty little heads roll.

Ever heard of Lootas? Those war walkers you love to hate will crumple under loota fire, just like everything else in the Eldar codex.

Iron_Chaos_Brute wrote:

indigo_jones wrote:

Whine...

Now i don't want anyone thinking that I get beat all the time by Eldar. Get in close, they'll crumple for the most part. put enough shots on em(I mean a lot of shots cause of fortune), they cant make all of their saves. the problem is they have way too many different weapons, so they're never really out of place in any combat situation. They're too shifty, I know thats the Eldars thing, but enough is enough. they'll beat most anyone in initiative anytime, so banshees mean death to everyone, even if they're charged they still get the bonus attack. rigged.

that being said there are a lot of down points to eldar. Guardians are a poor excuse for troops, they fold against most anything. Most of their units, aside from harley and banshees, fold easily in CC. small unit size, low troop count, small margin for error, all those things work against the eldar.

Even if they can't be called cheap, they are still really annoying to play against, expect to be frustrated a lot against eldar. Just run run run, stay in cover, and get to the CC, and watch their pretty little heads roll.

Ever heard of Lootas? Those war walkers you love to hate will crumple under loota fire, just like everything else in the Eldar codex.

I think that's the truest thing I've ever heard. The only thing lootas would have trouble with is a fortuned wraithlord, or fortuned wraithguard, but you've got power klaws to take on either of those units.

I have tremendously bad luck with my lootas. A 12 man squad should take care of them handily according to math, but it doesn't seem to work out that way. Usually it ends with the walkers getting stunned or shaken, but in a squad theyre all shaken, so they just run away, pop out on his next turn and obliterate the lootas with guided shots.