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should i get 2 heavy destroyers? or 7 attack scarabs and 5 immortals???

if so, why???(if you need to see my list i can post one for you)

p.s. i am new to necrons

I would get two Heavy Destroyers.

In fifth addition, the Necron's gauss special rule can't actually kill the tanks, so it is a lot harder for Necrons to kill tanks than it used to be.

The Heavy Destroyers (resilient with WBB, a 3+ save, and T 5) are a good choice for anti-tank fire.

the destroyers kill tanks
the scarabs and immortals kill infantry
make your choice based on your opponent

lordofthedead wrote:the destroyers kill tanks
the scarabs and immortals kill infantry
make your choice based on your opponent

This isn't always good advice.

Changing your list based on your opponent is considered cheating my some and it wont always help you. If you put in the immortals because you think your playing orks but then your opponent turns up with 8 battlewagons you're screwed.

Basically dont do it.

What to include in your army depends on what else you have. Being necrons though it is likely tht you are a little low on anti-tank so take the heavy destroyers.

Necrons don't need to kill vehicles, and Heavy destroyers, when viewed alongside normal destroyers, are kind of a waste. Monoliths and tomb spiders, from what I've seen, are hands-down the best spent points in your heavy support selection, as they both allow you to keep bodies in the fight when they would otherwise be a smear.

Wondering what I mean by "Necrons don't need to kill vehicles"?

Let me pose this set of logic to you:

*Necrons, despite being priced higher than space marines, are a rather unique hoarde army. They require numbers in order to ensure survival, which, as long as you don't do anything stupid, isn't a difficult thing to do. As long as they can keep standing back up, you're going to give your opponent a frustrating time. Monoliths, tomb spiders, and the Res Orb all settle into the survival aid mode, as they all give your forces a better chance to get back up.

*All their weapons have the ability to render AV14, MCs, Light Infantry and Heavy Infantry down into their elemental components... Why? Because of the Gauss rule. Against AV14 a heavy destroyer will only ever make a single glance, a regular Destroyer can make up to 3, albeit with some damn lucky rolling. Necrons are severely generalist, as the only thing that matters to their success is sheer volume of fire... A bolter will never, EVER put down T8. With necrons, the game is always quantity over quality, just keep them out of assault.

*Worried about screening? Spend a few points on a couple of small carpets of scarabs, if you can afford them, but don't forget the disruption fields, they'll allow your roomba brigade to actually put the hurt on something once in a while.

The Necron Codex should have been even shorter than it was, as you only will ever need the following units:
HQ-
Necron Lord (Duh.)
C'Tan (If you need to ask, field him in a 1000 point game... trust me.)

Elites-
Pariahs (never underestimate the power to negate ALL saves. seriously, these things eat terminators like delicious cake.)
Immortals (like Necron Warriors, only better.)

Troops-
Necron Warriors (well, what else is there?)

Fast attack-
Destroyers (Fast and hurty... kinda how I like my women, too.)
Scarabs (...or so people say. I don't buy it, why spend points on something my Tomb spiders make for free?)

Heavy Support-
Tomb Spiders (Keeps your metal men ticking for as long as possible.)
Monolith (Big killy pie plate? check. Model sniping? check. Ungodly output of firepower that makes deepstriking so very very useful? check. 24" move for infantry? oh yeah.)

Standard caveats apply, YMMV.

In 5th Gauss does a very poor job of killing vehicles unless you can manage rear shots with Destroyers.

Pariahs suck, unless you can somehow charge Terminators or manage a Flayed Ones or Deciever combo with the LD aura.

Spyders mostly suck.

Scarabs are decent fast assault troops. Neither Scarabs nor Wraiths can kill enemy units that are competent in assault, but Scarabs will hold things up longer and are more likely to kill units weak in assault.

Heavy Destroyers can kill vehicles better than anything else in the list except Monoliths and Ctan, but keeping them alive can be difficult.

Spyders are actually amazing in 5th edition.

The effectiveness of Gauss has been greatly reduced though with how glancing hits work. What it comes down to is you're paying points like the guys are able to kill vehicles, but they no longer can.

Pariahs are the worst thing in the codex. Yes, they can ignore all saves, but they have ONE attack, aren't Necrons, and can only move a maximum of 7-12" per turn.

They're also too expensive to take in anything other than very small squads, so they'll get ripped up by plasma gun-toting marines or Leman Russes.

They're bad, bad units. Don't even touch them unless your opponent is a completely melee army, and even then, they're not very useful.

Just say no to Heavy Destroyers... repeat after me, just say no to heavy destroyers. {caveat: use them in games UNDER 1000}
Scarabs are swell, they are what I use to kill Land Raiders.
Immortals are 24" range on the move, and T5 and are made of awesome and make you cupcakes

I disagree Cheese Elemental, Heavy Destroyers are the worst thing in the codex.
Pariahs, I used to think they were the suck, but I've found that they are kinda butter, expensive butter, but butter none the less.
I wouldn't take more than 4-6 of them.
   They're Immortals without the 50% after-I'm-dead gamble.
   Walk them behind a unit of warriors then *poof* cover save, and 8-12 Gauss blaster shots.
   I tend to have the most success with them when keeping them OUT of close combat.
   With six of them you can get a 28"x31" bubble that drops your opponent's leadership down to Ld7.
   That is for the morale checks for suffering rapid fire (remember the warriors in front) 25% casualties and the Lord with Nightmare Shroud
   Also making squads break from tank-shocking monoliths is fun
I normally make over their points when I field them (unlike the H-Destroyers)

Dronze wrote:Necrons don't need to kill vehicles, and Heavy destroyers, when viewed alongside normal destroyers, are kind of a waste. Monoliths and tomb spiders, from what I've seen, are hands-down the best spent points in your heavy support selection, as they both allow you to keep bodies in the fight when they would otherwise be a smear.

Wondering what I mean by "Necrons don't need to kill vehicles"?

Let me pose this set of logic to you:

*Necrons, despite being priced higher than space marines, are a rather unique hoarde army. They require numbers in order to ensure survival, which, as long as you don't do anything stupid, isn't a difficult thing to do. As long as they can keep standing back up, you're going to give your opponent a frustrating time. Monoliths, tomb spiders, and the Res Orb all settle into the survival aid mode, as they all give your forces a better chance to get back up.

*All their weapons have the ability to render AV14, MCs, Light Infantry and Heavy Infantry down into their elemental components... Why? Because of the Gauss rule. Against AV14 a heavy destroyer will only ever make a single glance, a regular Destroyer can make up to 3, albeit with some damn lucky rolling. Necrons are severely generalist, as the only thing that matters to their success is sheer volume of fire... A bolter will never, EVER put down T8. With necrons, the game is always quantity over quality, just keep them out of assault.

*Worried about screening? Spend a few points on a couple of small carpets of scarabs, if you can afford them, but don't forget the disruption fields, they'll allow your roomba brigade to actually put the hurt on something once in a while.

The Necron Codex should have been even shorter than it was, as you only will ever need the following units:
HQ-
Necron Lord (Duh.)
C'Tan (If you need to ask, field him in a 1000 point game... trust me.)

Elites-
Pariahs (never underestimate the power to negate ALL saves. seriously, these things eat terminators like delicious cake.)
Immortals (like Necron Warriors, only better.)

Troops-
Necron Warriors (well, what else is there?)

Fast attack-
Destroyers (Fast and hurty... kinda how I like my women, too.)
Scarabs (...or so people say. I don't buy it, why spend points on something my Tomb spiders make for free?)

Heavy Support-
Tomb Spiders (Keeps your metal men ticking for as long as possible.)
Monolith (Big killy pie plate? check. Model sniping? check. Ungodly output of firepower that makes deepstriking so very very useful? check. 24" move for infantry? oh yeah.)

Standard caveats apply, YMMV.

I disagree IMMENSELY on a number of points
-As Cheese Elemental said stay away from Pariahs, they are simply terrible, I don't really feel I need to justify this statement, as the reasons why to avoid them should be obvious. (if you like I can post why later )

-Scarabs are fantastic, they can turbo boost and put pressure on your opponents from turn one, they can tar pit most non CC units for a large portion of a game and CC units will take many turns to kill them too. With disruption fields they put out tons of glancing hits on vehicles as well (glancing whilst now much worse still has uses in specific situations). They are pretty much the definitive harassment unit, they need to be dealt with or they will cause a lot of problems for your opponent. If you create them with tombs spyders they lose their greatest assets, speed and volume. I personally have never felt tomb spyders have a place in my lists but I can respect if some like them,

-Simply having lots of warriors is not enough, they quite frankly are not durable enough to stand up to a charge or a long range beating , even with WBB and all the units that complement WBB (Res Lord, Lith, Spyder). They are too slow and a semi competent opponent will concentrate at one point and simply overwhelm you in a given area. Its all very well to say quantity is all you need but about 108 shots on average are needed to fully incapacitate a dreadnought, good luck with that if you play an army with anything more than 2 tanks.

Dronze wrote: Necrons don't need to kill vehicles

Have you even played against a mech 5th ed army?

I do agree that Immortals and Destroyers are great but.....

Dronze wrote: Destroyers (Fast and hurty... kinda how I like my women, too.)

*Facepalm*

But back on topic, I recommend buying destroyers, of both kinds, they are your best killy units and they are the only things you will be able to dish out pain at a range exceeding 24". IMO buy heavy destroyers but magnetize the arms if you like and you get some variety for you money too.

Foldalot wrote:I disagree IMMENSELY on a number of points
-As Cheese Elemental said stay away from Pariahs, they are simply terrible, I don't really feel I need to justify this statement, as the reasons why to avoid them should be obvious. (if you like I can post why later )

I guess it's a matter of personal opinion, and the post was just my take on it.

I like pariahs, they're a fairly solid (if pretty overpriced) unit that can really cause some massive issues if used properly. Maybe they're not the most competitive unit in the 'dex, but when you need to deal with that really hard target, they'll get the job done.

Not amazing, but really not as bad as everyone seems to peg them for.

-Scarabs are fantastic, they can turbo boost and put pressure on your opponents from turn one, they can tar pit most non CC units for a large portion of a game and CC units will take many turns to kill them too. With disruption fields they put out tons of glancing hits on vehicles as well (glancing whilst now much worse still has uses in specific situations). They are pretty much the definitive harassment unit, they need to be dealt with or they will cause a lot of problems for your opponent. If you create them with tombs spyders they lose their greatest assets, speed and volume. I personally have never felt tomb spyders have a place in my lists but I can respect if some like them,

Whenever I see someone fielding scarabs, the first thing I reach for are the templates and pie plates. They do make for good tar pits, but they're still fodder for any player that can recognize and then dismantle the enemies harassment units turn one. Fact is, Necrons don't have that reach out and touch someone capability outside of 24" (barring destroyers and H. destroyers), so you can generally afford to take a turn to a turn and a half dealing with the units that are bound to tie you up later in the game, including the destroyers.

Again, that's just my take on things.

-Simply having lots of warriors is not enough, they quite frankly are not durable enough to stand up to a charge or a long range beating , even with WBB and all the units that complement WBB (Res Lord, Lith, Spyder). They are too slow and a semi competent opponent will concentrate at one point and simply overwhelm you in a given area. Its all very well to say quantity is all you need but about 108 shots on average are needed to fully incapacitate a dreadnought, good luck with that if you play an army with anything more than 2 tanks.

Who said you needed to completely incapacitate anything. All necrons need to do is stall out the vehicles. A vehicle that isn't shooting or moving is a waste of points and space for the opposing player.

As far as the numbers game goes, it's simple statistics. You need to kill 75% of my necrons (by model count) in order to force a phase out (generally the most reliable means by which to play it, no matter what the scenario is...). That's just a simple fact. Necrons aren't slow, they're situationally slow. If they don't have teleportation of some sort, they're going to crash and burn. With a pair of Lords with a Veil, you can take it to the last minute objective grab if you need to, as well as, like I mentioned before, take that 24" (actually closer to 30") jump via the monolith, and still be able to fire and assault (if the situation requires the latter.

Dronze wrote: Necrons don't need to kill vehicles

Have you even played against a mech 5th ed army?

I do agree that Immortals and Destroyers are great but.....

They really don't need to destroy vehicles, that's not to say they don't need to deal with them. If I can stall the advance of your metal boxes, I've suddenly forced you to shift and play the game on my terms, would you not agree? If you're not moving, my destroyers and monoliths are cherry-picking your transports and my warriors are blasting the ever-loving crud out of the contents of your canned infantry.

Dronze wrote: Destroyers (Fast and hurty... kinda how I like my women, too.)

*Facepalm*

Don't knock it until you've tried it.

But back on topic, I recommend buying destroyers, of both kinds, they are your best killy units and they are the only things you will be able to dish out pain at a range exceeding 24". IMO buy heavy destroyers but magnetize the arms if you like and you get some variety for you money too.

Magnetics make for some severe awesomesauce, I will agree on that, and it would make for some good on-the-table testing. As I tend to tag most of my codex-related comments, YMMV, meaning, quite clearly, that I'm not the end-all-be-all of this game, just someone who's played enough to give my thoughts on units that I've had some experience with and to point out that (almost) everything in a codex has some kind of use... even if it is just being a paperweight.

I suppose our mileage does indeed differ

I agree with most of what you just said, though if you don't mind me saying thats not quite how I interpreted your first post. Our disagreement I think comes down to the different compositions of our lists, what type of list you field will change the effectiveness of some units drastically, this can be said of all codex's but with Necrons its often not quite as basic as Mechanized/ Footslogging or Shooting/ CC, and I can see how (and this kills me what I am about to type.....) Pariahs can sometimes be useful when used in conjunction with leadership damaging based armies; I still feel though that 9 time out of 10 your better of leaving Pariahs off the board as paper weights to keep your list from blowing away.

On the issue of vehicles though I would like to add that you do need to be able to reliably shut down a vehicle, and relying on massed glancing shots like in fourth edition is no longer reliable enough to stop a vehicle from fulfilling its role, to immobilize a transport (that will almost always have extra armour or an alien equivalent so stunning is no good) you will need to fire 54 shots. This is a situation that crops up a lot in my games and I have being forced to increase my numbers of destroyers of both types to counter this, it is a shame to see how nerfed Necron AV has become.
Disabling shooting tanks I will admit is easier, but then range becomes a problem, again I suppose YMMV!

My friend just started both 40k and Necrons, and we have been brain storming tactics for him, so this thread has been an immense help.

Scarab swarms have been his biggest unit for taking down tanks. Deep striking, or just moving from terrain piece to terrain piece, they have almost every opportunity to stay safe until they reach their target. Hes knocked out more tanks with those swarms with the disruptor fields than I have with my lascannons in the last 3 weeks.
Wraiths have also proven to be quite effective for taking out the many hidden mortar, heavy weapons, and loota squads he comes across.
The only thing he is having problems with is keeping those CC armies just out of range of charging, while still keeping them within shooting distance. Its a delicate dance he has yet to master.

This thread is great for me, I've been thinking about starting Necrons. Are they competitive in tournaments and such. I see the armor penetration thing as being a big problem in serious play.

Also, what types of wargear do you usually outfit your lord(s) with? I see a lot of possibilities, but can't decide on any one of them.

combatmedic wrote:My friend just started both 40k and Necrons, and we have been brain storming tactics for him, so this thread has been an immense help.

Scarab swarms have been his biggest unit for taking down tanks. Deep striking, or just moving from terrain piece to terrain piece, they have almost every opportunity to stay safe until they reach their target. Hes knocked out more tanks with those swarms with the disruptor fields than I have with my lascannons in the last 3 weeks.
Wraiths have also proven to be quite effective for taking out the many hidden mortar, heavy weapons, and loota squads he comes across.
The only thing he is having problems with is keeping those CC armies just out of range of charging, while still keeping them within shooting distance. Its a delicate dance he has yet to master.

Wraiths are a frequently overlooked option, if only for their ability to pose a major hinderance to units that are getting too close to your lines, as well as being able to disrupt things that are out of your nominal range, but they do come with a few (admittedly major) drawbacks:

1) Numbers - Wraiths can't seem to bring themselves in large enough groups to prove to be anything more than a short-lived, if sometimes lethal, hindrance to the unit in question. This being said, they can be utilized in a similar mode as destroyers, offering you a turn 2 blitz option. The other advantage they offer over their CC counterparts, the Scarabs, they can get pulled by a monolith, move their 12", and then assault, giving them an effective threat range of 42-44", provided your table position is set up right.

2) Invulnerable save or not, Wraiths are still only rolling a 3+ save, and power weapons still keep them down if they find themselves outside of res orb range, which, given their role, they will readily do. Furthermore, their high initiative completely removes any disadvantages posed by powerfists, as they will be effectively hitting with everything else in a normal MEQ matchup.

3)While the S5 is an amazing advantage against most vehicles for a fast, bare bones unit, it still falls behind when compared to your other fast attack options, namely, Destroyers, who can really reach out and touch someone hard, at ranges exceeding that of the wraith. Not an advantage often used, but on larger tables, this can prove invaluable to the Destroyers.

All that being said, wraiths aren't a bad unit, but I think they're a bit out of their depth in this codex.

Drummerboy wrote:This thread is great for me, I've been thinking about starting Necrons. Are they competitive in tournaments and such. I see the armor penetration thing as being a big problem in serious play.

Also, what types of wargear do you usually outfit your lord(s) with? I see a lot of possibilities, but can't decide on any one of them.

Res Orb, Phylactery and Veil Of Darkness are your most useful options, but the others offer some interesting ways to play it.

Anyhow, as I tend to state here, standard caveats apply, YMMV.

hmmm, further meditations on Wraiths.

Character Assassination.
    Since you have to choose whether to attack an attached character or their unit (retinues aside),
    wraiths may have a place in which they pick off enemy heroes in close combat.
    Even Lysander would not be able to snear at 12x I6 S6 attacks
    ~ 120 points seem worth this function on paper

Belphegor wrote:hmmm, further meditations on Wraiths.

Character Assassination.
    Since you have to choose whether to attack an attached character or their unit (retinues aside),
    wraiths may have a place in which they pick off enemy heroes in close combat.
    Even Lysander would not be able to sneer at 12x I6 S6 attacks
    ~ 120 points seem worth this function on paper

Thats a good point, probably aim for characters a little softer than Lysander though
My three big problems with Wriaths is that they:
-Are too brittle in assault
-Don't hit hard enough in assault (squad of three will kill 1.67 MEQs on the charge)
-Most importantly they eat up a valuable fast attack slot that could be going towards Destroyers or Scarabs, both of which are great units with many applications.

Drummerboy wrote: This thread is great for me, I've been thinking about starting Necrons. Are they competitive in tournaments and such. I see the armor penetration thing as being a big problem in serious play.

Also, what types of wargear do you usually outfit your lord(s) with? I see a lot of possibilities, but can't decide on any one of them.

Necrons aren't really fantastic from a competitive view point, but there are ways to counter their weaknesses and you can find a lot of success playing Necrons if you use them well. As far as the Lord goes there are two main varieties, a walking Lord with Veil and Res orb (and maybe a Warscythe if you want some more situational antitank), my preferred Lord build is the mounted kind; Destroyer Body, Res orb and Warscythe are the staples of such a Lord with the rest of his wargear being up to you, adjust them to suit your play style. I prefer rounding this mounted lord out with either a Night mare shroud (good against low leadership armies like Foot Guard or Tau), a phase shifter for added durability or sometimes even a Solar pulse to make him and his destroyer buddies harder to hit. Experiment with you Lords kit though as these two are just solid starting points, always remember though unlike some armioes you Lord is pretty weak and is not there to kill the enemy, he is there to support the Necrons around him.

Has anyone considered the differences between Pariah's and Immortals? At first I was with most on choosing immortals as a core component of a Necron force, but after looking through the codex again I think I have changed my mind.

Consider this 5 Immortals cost 140 pts. They have a the gauss blaster and otherwise are just T 5 warriors.

The Pariahs on the other hand cost 144 pts for 4 of them. They have a S and T of 5 and an In. of 3 (not that big a deal)
They also have gauss blasters, warscythes, and 2 really convenient special rules soulless and psychic abomination.

The Pariah's hit just as hard in the shooting phase and give player's the opportunity to have a chance in close combat.

Am I missing something here?

Oh and Belphagor I agree with you about Wraiths, they seem good, but I have no experience with Necrons on the table top. Maybe someone else will add to this.

Drummerboy wrote:Has anyone considered the differences between Pariah's and Immortals? At first I was with most on choosing immortals as a core component of a Necron force, but after looking through the codex again I think I have changed my mind.

Consider this 5 Immortals cost 140 pts. They have a the gauss blaster and otherwise are just T 5 warriors.

The Pariahs on the other hand cost 144 pts for 4 of them. They have a S and T of 5 and an In. of 3 (not that big a deal)
They also have gauss blasters, warscythes, and 2 really convenient special rules soulless and psychic abomination.

The Pariah's hit just as hard in the shooting phase and give player's the opportunity to have a chance in close combat.

Am I missing something here?

Oh and Belphagor I agree with you about Wraiths, they seem good, but I have no experience with Necrons on the table top. Maybe someone else will add to this.

You didn't mention it so you may have missed it; Pariahs aren't Necrons. This means no WBB, no teleporting with your lord and no teleporting through Monoliths. Immortals are a lot tougher than Pariahs due to the rule WBB, essentially they are twice as durable (with a lord close by). Something that may not have being considered is that Pariahs are not good in an assault, compared to the rest of the Necron codex they are but when you compare them to the squads they will be fighting like Bezerkers, Harlequins, assualt terminators and the like they simply do not cut it. Sure, once in a blue moon they might get an assault in on a good target (such as a Carnifex) but they will most likely be avoided (no movement enhancing aspects such as teleporting or even fleet) or shot down before they get into a decent assault. This means that they are essentially Immortals that do not have WBB but instead gain 2 occasionally useful special rules, as well as costing 8 points more.
If Pariahs could make use of the Lords Veil of Darkness then I would reconsider taking them but as it stands they are too slow to get to assault not to mention less durable. So Immortals are (IMO of course) the better option.

I didn't catch that, thanks for pointing that out. So other than a C'Tan and a lord...the only way to handle close combat is to avoid it?

I wish there was at least one solid unit in close combat that wasn't so important to the army or that didn't cost 300+ points.

Drummerboy wrote:I didn't catch that, thanks for pointing that out. So other than a C'Tan and a lord...the only way to handle close combat is to avoid it?

I wish there was at least one solid unit in close combat that wasn't so important to the army or that didn't cost 300+ points.

Run a Nightbringer in a 1000 point game... you won't regret it, especially if you're playing on a 4x4 board.

All that aside, if you're playing necrons, your main concern is shooting. You've got access to very few assault units that are worth their salt, so I wouldn't bother with them too much...

That being said, outflanking flayed ones can deal with some of that obnoxious long-range artillery if you REALLY have a pocket full of points to waste.

Cool...as of right now I think I'm going to pick up a boxed army set, a nightbringer, 1 tomb spyder and 2 Heavy Destroyers...that'll give me a pretty good set for right at 300 bucks...less if I risk getting some of it off of feebay.

There won't be much in a 1000 pt. game that could kill a nightbringer. Hover I did face Ghaz once in a 1k point game...guess it's close to the same thing...although a Night bringer does look better on paper.

Drummerboy wrote:Cool...as of right now I think I'm going to pick up a boxed army set, a nightbringer, 1 tomb spyder and 2 Heavy Destroyers...that'll give me a pretty good set for right at 300 bucks...less if I risk getting some of it off of feebay.

There won't be much in a 1000 pt. game that could kill a nightbringer. Hover I did face Ghaz once in a 1k point game...guess it's close to the same thing...although a Night bringer does look better on paper.

A couple of notes on the nightbringer:

When building it, pinning is your friend... or use magnets to help with ease of transportation. It's not an easy model to carry around.

When deploying it, put it front and center, ready to hit anything it can as quickly as possible. Like an eldar Avatar, you don't want to waste your time trying to get it in close and personal. The sooner you get it into place, the sooner you can really mess up someone's day.

Don't forget the special abilities... you're paying in excess of 300 points for this beast, don't let it go to waste.

Yea I have never played with an army like Necrons, I'm use to armies that are extremely straightforward and that can't have Gods on the front lines (literally).

Don't worry about me forgetting all of the Nightbringer's abilities....that's the best part about him...and the toughness and wounds slots.

One thing to be careful of when using the Nightbringer is that you don't allow him to get tarpitted by cheap enemy units that will take him ages to kill, gaze of death and ethric tempest will help a lot in these situations but always be mindful that the Nightbringer is there to kill the hardest of your enemy units. (with some very few exceptions like Seer council/ 10 Assault termies etc)

Wraiths should be decent anti-vehicle threats with CC hits on rear armor. S6 v AV 10 isn't bad, and they are so very mobile. Even if all you do is force movement to prevent autohits. They'd be much better if they had a max unit size of 5-6, and either were cheaper or had rending.

Depending on mass Gauss fire to hurt vehicles is bad. You need to be so close for warriors to do it, and Destroyers and Immortals need to be killing other units since they comprise most of your hitting power. The best vehicle killer is the Monolith, as the hole hits for AP 1 and is ordinance.

Hmm, are Spyders actually good at melee now? Before they always had to depend on countercharging after combat started or risk getting owned by the fist and whatever assault plasma/melta fire the enemy unit had.

The Grog wrote:Hmm, are Spyders actually good at melee now? Before they always had to depend on countercharging after combat started or risk getting owned by the fist and whatever assault plasma/melta fire the enemy unit had.

Who said spyders were good at melee? They're an indespensible unit, yes, but they really aren't that great close in. Like the rest of your necrons, keep them out of CC, as they're there in a support role. If you want to give then a shooting role, give them the staff of light upgrade and use them to plug a few more MEQs per turn, or just use them to break open vehicles.

Dronze wrote:

The Grog wrote:Hmm, are Spyders actually good at melee now? Before they always had to depend on countercharging after combat started or risk getting owned by the fist and whatever assault plasma/melta fire the enemy unit had.

Who said spyders were good at melee? They're an indespensible unit, yes, but they really aren't that great close in. Like the rest of your necrons, keep them out of CC, as they're there in a support role. If you want to give then a shooting role, give them the staff of light upgrade and use them to plug a few more MEQs per turn, or just use them to break open vehicles.

MC's will always cause damage in assaults, and it is a valid tactic to take many spyders (in units of 2 or mainly 3) and charge with them. With the toughness rules changing in 5th (if there is no majority toughness the highest is used) the spyder can make a swarm and essentially boost its durability by 3 wounds each turn if needed. This change means that they are certainly a lot better now and and some people now successfully max out on spyders and run them in an assault based army (Deciever/ Pariahs/ 30 scarabs/ Spyders) you can make an "iron curtain" of them in front of your warriors and other shooting troops. It is certainly an outside the box army but some have found it to be successful (see the batreps forum and look for mechagodzilla).

Is the spyder a mainstay or staple unit in the Necron codex? Certainly not.

Can successful strategies be built around the spyders durability and assault potential? Hell yes.

Don't ever be worried about losing your Nightbringer in CC unless the word 'Witchblade' is involved. Anything that can kill one has a good chance of getting shredded in the process, and the fight won't go fast. Only units with lots of fixed chances for wounds or autowounds can hope to kill a C'tan quickly and without much loss.

I'd never put a projector on a Spyder, BS 2 is terrible and the range means you get one round of shooting before somebody charges something. I regret modeling mine.

The Grog wrote:Don't ever be worried about losing your Nightbringer in CC unless the word 'Witchblade' is involved. Anything that can kill one has a good chance of getting shredded in the process, and the fight won't go fast. Only units with lots of fixed chances for wounds or autowounds can hope to kill a C'tan quickly and without much loss.

Epidemius scares the HELL out of the nightbringer, especially when you account for Nurglings or Plague Bearers with Noxious Touch...