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Hihi , thank you for dropping by ! in this thread i'll get into the basics of the AT-43 universe .

-The essentials you can download
-The great starter sets
-Factions, and their Units

The 4 Main Armies and their sub factions for AT-43 ( 2 additional to be released in future! ) :

United Nations of Ava : The proud human alliance that expand through the galaxy.
Central Command Military Industrial Complex Union


Therian : Ultimate result of human evolution . Fearing human limits and weakness of flesh , they are nothing but data and machine.
Cypher Warriors Web Striders


Red Blok : Once part of human alliance , they are revolutionary for justice, equity and unity.
Supra The Arc Front Line


Karman : Wise philosophers , running out of patience ... Angry banana loving apes going to war to beat some sense into others!
Libra Nova Flux


-In AT-43 , the units are seperated into these categories. Each unit have their type / ranks (represented by Stars * )

Infantry : Regular * / Elite ** / Battle Suits ***

--------------Soldiers (Your Infantry)
--------------Support Units (The heavier weapons carried by Infantry)


Armored Fighting Vehicles (AFV): Recon Scout * / Combat ** / Heavy Support ***

--------------Striders ( Combat Walkers )
--------------Vehicles (Any machine that doesnt walk)


With the very basic units and their type figured out , we can down load some free distributed pdf files and program to further assist you!

Down Loads!

Here are the 2 rule books for download : http://www.rackham.fr/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=45&Itemid=244

After you are familiar with the way game works , next is a program like (army builder) . Its the ultimate aid for AT-43 player new and experienced.
It'll tailor your army with the sub factions of your choice , and let you build their unique force organization:
Easy AT-43: http://rcommunity.nazgulworld.com/index.php?page=dl

Starter Products ! : There are a few nice sets for starters , or even veterans that want to bulk their army with good deals!

Operation Damocles ( Initiation set ) Comes with Rule book / tape measure / Terrains / 2 squads of Infantry / 2 Striders
Only $30 USD on miniaturemarket and warstore! ( no im not advertising for them , their banner are on dakka anyways lol ) And no! these are not epic scale! , they are pre painted 28mm! (warhammer size)

Starter Armies: (Hopefully more to follow! ugh i hate waiting -_-) Thats right, they are $52 USD on miniaturemarket and warstore!


*Videos of the 2 box contents: http://www.confrontation.fr/ARMYBOX/ARMYBOXVIDEO.html

**Useful sites / forums with info!**

Main AT-43 Forum: http://en-forum.at-43.com/index.php
Sort of like a Blog: discussing his purchase and tips on units http://www.at-43addict.com/
Another blog site with tutorials on re painting the prepainted minis: http://ledragondunord.blogspot.com/2009/04/wendigo-beginner-painting-guide.html

More info to come! (still WIP , but sleepy z_z)
*Disclaimers : This is a thread created purely on my good will to help out new players . If anyone wishes to troll / flame bait me by turning this thread into rule / GM discussion , this isnt the thread for it.

I would highly recommend the buying the Operation: Damocles set if you are interested in At-43 BEFORE investing heavily in the game.

Here are some more Cog (the next release) pics.

But only for the minis. Youd should order the rulesbook together with the box, since the introductory rules are only half the fun.

To chime in here I recommend a starter buys multiple Damocles boxsts, particularly at dioscount in order to build up an army.

I recommend for a fresh user buying two boxsets.



Buying boxsets in pairs helps due to the way the UNA contingent is organised. Fire Toads are vehicles which while they can be operated individually are supposed to be used in squadrons. Also the infantry is split between soldiers with lens masks, and soldiers without.

Two boxsets give you two single Fire Toads, keep them as single or joined as a pair and two Steel Trooper squads, one with lens masks the other without.
The number of troopers is not balanced, five with lens and four without. This is not a problem convert the two asgt minitures with lens but open masks as medics by painting the heads white. You need medics. Use the kepi cap soldiers as mechanics for both teams and paint sgt striopes on two other soldiers. You should have enough to distinguish the two squads.

The Therians you get will be enough for two Wraith Golgoths. you also have an odd arragnement of infantry with toom many relays for standard use. Relays are cylinder on the backs of squad memebers to receive and diseminate programming fro the squads masters. normally you are rerstricted to one per squad. Two Democles boxsets gives you two, and not enough heavy weapons or ordnary squad memeber for a squad.

However two boxsets yields two Wraith Golgoths and a squad of nine storm golems with three sonic guns and a realty, and a smaller squad of six storm golems with one sonic gun and two relays. the second relay is illegal, but a sneaky truick you can pull off is to cut off the relay from the second relay golem and swap it for the pack on a sonic gun golem. Sonic guns golems cannot have relays so the relay can be ignored.

Now you have:

CYPHERS LIST
Wraith Golgoth Alpha 365pts
Wraith Golgoth w/ relay 355pts
9 Storm golems w/ 3 sonic guns and relay 405pts
6 Storm golems w/ 1 sonic gun and relay 255pts

UNA LIST
2 Fire Toads w/ sgt 415pts
9 Steel troopers w/lens 2 missile launchers, medic, mechanic and sgt 355pts
9 Steel troopers w/2 missile launchers, medic, mechanic and sgt 310pts

This is a tad imbalanced. The UNA force is 1080pts, the Therians 1380pts, also the Therians need to use the Cyphers list because of the two Wraith Golgoths. So lets add to that.

For the UNA the Steel Tac Arm boxset and Copperhead, for the Therians a Storm Golem attachment and a Bane Golaith boxset. This brings the two armies to about 1900pts and will offer a number of blanced armies at 1500pts.
My recommendations for the UNA are based on first the soild reality that steel trooper attachments are hard to source, plan to get some later, and the need for the versatility of Steel TacArms. Copperhead is a nice boxset offering a ** strider and the option of piloting it with a powerful hero. Though you need not do so.
These lists are still not balanced but you can balance in situ by not taking all the Therian golems you have available and limiting what you upgrade the Overseer to. Bane Goliaths are lethal additions to your army and are in some ways similar to Steel TacArms, only better.

All you now need are the rulebook and the UNA and Therian army books.

starter terrain is covered as you have two playmats, two containers 12 low walls and four nanogenerators for marking objectives. from there you can move on to othedr things.

Eventual starter purchase list:

2x Damocles Initiation boxset
1x Copperhead & Col Stark boxset
1x Steel TacArm boxset
1x Bane Golaith boxset
1x Storm Golem attachment boxset
1x AT-43 Rulebook
1x 'Codex' U.N.A.
1x 'Codex' Therians

All the following are still on special offer, if you are quick you can then make a second order to expand on your two armies as you see fit. I would stasrt by recommending a further two Damocles Intiation Boxsets to round out your terrain allotment and build up the core of your two armies (you wont ever be short of tape measures in your home). Tiamat is a good buy also to match Stark, add a boxset of Assault Goliaths to complete the second platoon so you can use Tiamat as the start of the third. To balance that you will need more TacArms, I recommend starting with one boxset of each Tac Arms plus Lt Epstone to counter the Wraith Golgoth horde, and another Defender Cobra - you can buy the Copperhead boxset multiple times, but you can only use Copperhead once in your army. Add in a boxset of Shock Troopers as they are cheap right now and they match up the points. However hold on, Deathdealers are no longer discopunted, so go back and replace them with more Steel TacArms and replace Epstone, evedn if you can get her cheap with Captain Newton. Your armies come to just over 4000pts and three platoons by my calcualtion, though the exact figure depends on how you equip with officers, overseers, attachments and laser designators. Finally with two UNA heroes on the field take urash, while he pushes the points over he is a squad upgrade and can be swapped out, he is also discounted still.

My 'complete list upgrade is as follows.

2x (more) Damocles Initiation boxset
1x (more) Copperhead & Col Stark boxset
1x Jam TacArm boxset
1x Shock TacArm boxset
1x Steel TacArm boxset
1x Captain Newton boxset
1x Shock Trooper boxset
1x Assault Goliath boxset
1x Tiamat boxset
1x Urash boxset.

As it stands the entirity of the list above is still discounted at MM or warstore. You would not be making a mistake by buying this entire army outright. The two above full lists are moderately well balanced to each other, allowing for howe you upgrade your units, have a lot of playability and flexibility and will be more than ready if/when you buy two boxsets of Cogs or Red Blok to oppose them. After all why stop at one?

I am not a Sentinel and I am proposing opportunistic lists and purchase plans that take advantage of the current sales in the US, I do not personally endorse Rackhams normal pricing structure, but I see value here and think readers could profit by beeing aware of the opportunity and moving now. The purchase window is definately closing.

Thanks for the tips I'm definitely leaning towards red blok... will post pics if I'm able to take the leap

RiTides Nids wrote:Thanks for the tips I'm definitely leaning towards red blok... will post pics if I'm able to take the leap

DO NOT WAIT. If you think you want in decide NOW.

For Red Blok you will get all except heavy infantry and light striders peresented in the army box. This means you will need to plan purchasing some itesm, mostly Kolossi.

I recommend the following, all still on heavy discount:

1-2x Molot
1-2x RPG Kolossus
1x Dagomorov Kolossus
1x Lt Dragomira
1-2x Steilitz Kolossus
1x Cpt Vrachov
1x sgt Timofiyeva

All the above are at $5 or $10 each, its $86 total all in plus $15 for the codex and rulebook, but those prices WONT LAST. If you dither you will pay 3x or 4x as much later, and you will need the above items to round out the Army box armies. Miniatures Market will ship for free to the US above $75. No I dont work for them, this is a favour to you.

You can safely ignore all else for Red Blok other than what is listed and the codex and main At-43 rulebook. The Red Blok army box deal is a long term offer and you can buy that later. If you want other armies look at my above post for how to make two large armies very very cheaply with a combination of Damocles sets and firesale discount boxsets. With the above purchase lot you can add one or two army box deals and have a kicking Red Blok army out the results.

Eventually you will want Sierp too but they are full price now at $22 to $30 depending on where you look. CCGArmory have the best discounts I found for non firesale stock. every other unit isc ignorable permenantly, but if you want them get them, most are full price or heading that way. But you can still get RPG soldaty and Spetsnaz soldaty cheap still.

Wondering if this would be usefull to add if so I have more...(ps this is a test Im hoping this works)

It glitched me quite bad. I had to close the window after it seized up.

Orlanth wrote:It glitched me quite bad. I had to close the window after it seized up.

Thank you for the feed back, I was hoping some of these files I have from frostbite would be easy to share could thier be any chance it could be just on your end? and if not would you recommend anything I might be able to do so I could get this to be user friendly...Thanks

PDF file is working.

Yes , most of us are crazy happy from the fire sale (heavy discount. 50%-60% off atm) .

However, if you really like certain items ( i like mortars on Sierp ) for example , while they dont have
extra discount , they are still $22 (comes with container terrain too) is still a bargain compared to
GW IG sentinels.

You can also think about buying cheap Molots and converting the weaponry. The unit card will be a problem, but not an unsurmountable one. Just use one of the download cards print it out and glue to an unsused card.

Besides mortars on Sierp is good, disruption on Sierp is better.

Molots have the best guns, run right up and fire Red Blok heavy weapons that don't miss. A privilege comrade.

Are the legs on the Kolossus like tac arm suits with human pilot's leg in it?

Or are they huddled in the bulkier top part of the body? ( they seem like 1.5x bigger )

If they are walking that way they are waddling. It could be that the feet reach the Kollossus knees and the hands reach the Kolossus elbows, so its not quite a suit, its halfway between suit and mecha.

There are, over on the AT-43 English forums, some threads that I started up about "starter armies" for all four factions asked from the point of view of someone starting in who wanted to come up with four balanced lists to play against one another. I believe that a poster named "Vasatum" was responsible for most of the best responses.

Anyone looking around here for armies to start with, I cannot recommend these threads enough as the armies that were recommended to me did turn out to be excellent starter armies once I had them.

Also, surprised no one has mentioned this website, AT-43 addict:

http://www.at-43addict.com/

Click on the "getting started" tab, and then there are links to beginning 2000 AP armies for all four factions. Lots of information on that site.

Kolossus pilots are warriors who have lost body parts and thanks to the armor can once again fight the imperialists.

Hers some others both can be taken by any force...fun.

Cairnius wrote:There are, over on the AT-43 English forums, some threads that I started up about "starter armies" for all four factions asked from the point of view of someone starting in who wanted to come up with four balanced lists to play against one another. I believe that a poster named "Vasatum" was responsible for most of the best responses.

Anyone looking around here for armies to start with, I cannot recommend these threads enough as the armies that were recommended to me did turn out to be excellent starter armies once I had them.

Also, surprised no one has mentioned this website, AT-43 addict:

http://www.at-43addict.com/

Click on the "getting started" tab, and then there are links to beginning 2000 AP armies for all four factions. Lots of information on that site.

I find the AT-43 addict info to be outdated, good for unit tactics, but not for starter lists. It doesnt take into account the army boxes, though admittedly it does benchmark armies at 2000AP. It does not take into account what is at heavy discount, and more poiniently recommends units that are not available, steel trooper laser guns, I only wish. It also desont recommend ratios of specialists just heavy weapons.
Furthermore it doesnt seek to double up on buying two armies for the price of just over one wsith multiple Damocles boxsets. The lists on At-43 Addict failed to work out the smart buys. Even with everything at full price multiple Damocles boxsets offer a proportionate saving, sure its not building one army, but two and it does cost more than collecting one army, but the benefits so outweigh the costs, after all if nothing else you can sell on the second army, in fact you have an outside chance of having the sale cancel much of the investment price in the army you actually want for the ultimate saving. The only cheaper way to collect would be to steal it or beg a gift.

I mean what I say, its a joke how I was able to spend so little to buy an 8k Therian army. The aftermath of four Damocles boxsets plus a few odd Goliath units, bitz buys, a Baal or two and Tiamat. Most of it came free with my UNA and terrain.

Well, the AT-43 addict website isn't about saving you money, to be fair. It's about playing AT-43...so discussions of price savings in the context of this website are kind of off-topic.

Those starter lists are about providing solid lists for gameplay. Noobs are going to have no idea what does and doesn't work - I believe the intent of the site author is to spare you a little of that learning curve with the idea that you can learn how to play the game while also not having an army which sucks.

Someday the sales will end, and on that day people will still be able to go to AT-43 addict and get the information they need. Honestly, these firesales are one of the largest aberrations I've ever seen in tabletop wargaming, so were I creating such a website I probably wouldn't account for them either.

For once I have to agree with Cairnius. The site is for regular play, not moneymaxing.

Cairnius wrote:Well, the AT-43 addict website isn't about saving you money, to be fair. It's about playing AT-43...so discussions of price savings in the context of this website are kind of off-topic.

Those starter lists are about providing solid lists for gameplay. Noobs are going to have no idea what does and doesn't work - I believe the intent of the site author is to spare you a little of that learning curve with the idea that you can learn how to play the game while also not having an army which sucks.

Someday the sales will end, and on that day people will still be able to go to AT-43 addict and get the information they need. Honestly, these firesales are one of the largest aberrations I've ever seen in tabletop wargaming, so were I creating such a website I probably wouldn't account for them either.

I understand what its there for, but its a missed opportunity to really help players.

For people on low income like myself this is a now or never, I know full well that my chances of getting into AT-43 at any other time are around zero. i looked into it at Salute, it was on my maybe lists, I looked at the prices and no way. Ironically this was the height of the firesale, in April but I didnt know it existed then.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:For once I have to agree with Cairnius. The site is for regular play, not moneymaxing.

Regular play and value cannot truly be seperated, please remember the purchase philosophy is for 1.5k - 2.5k lists, directly translated that would be a tiny skirmish force in 40k vehicles and infantry, but its all that can realistically be afforded by many hobbyists.
Regular play is all very well but you cant roll dice for units that dont exist, well you can proxy, but it is not the same. Buy smart is not just about getting stuff for less, its also about buying more for the money. Looking at the At-43 Forums and the siggie bars, many people are boasted of their large 3k armies, this is a relic of pre-firesale. Including smart buying strategies in the advice gives room for new players to afford more and thus have that extra unit to swap out or into their list, firesale or not.

Lots of little tricks even the tables.

Want three steel trooper squads with medics and laserguns? How to:

1. Buy three steel troper boxsets and six steel trooper attachments (let us asume you can get them).

2. Or get the infantry from three Damocles boxssets, sell the Therians and enjoy the Fire Toads and terrain for free or keep the Therians as part of another army. Gain six medics by painting their helmets white.and buy a Steel Tac Arm boxset, cut the guns off and convert theb six missile steel troopers to laser gunners.

Now ok, many players want the instant in of the game and thats too much work. So I only speak to the existing hoobyist. well at least I am speaking to them (us Dakkaites!). its a way, its not the only way.

US prices are less anyway, even with no firesale. In the Uk prices are 50% higher after calculating currency differences. If I bought my armies in the Uk at retail prices I would have enough for a couple of boxsets for each side, maybe a vehicle, a hero and a unit plus attachment and one Damocles boxset. I doubt I would get two armies to 2k points. Even allowing for P&P insurance and customs and that most Uk stockists ship free in the UK its still very much cheaper to get from the US. Even so all this has cost me the lions share of my disposable net income for the last month.

AT-43 Addict assumes something: that the people going there are fans of AT-43. Fans of AT-43 were willing to pay full price, or the standard 25% you get from The War Store, when the game first came out in 2007. This site was built in the pre-firesale days, and is meant for the pre-firesale crowd, i.e. those who pay the regular prices and don't bat an eyelash at them.

Guys like you and me, we're the aberrations. We jumped onboard because the prices were low. The only units I ever paid "regular" prices for were a Fire Toad Mark 03 I couldn't otherwise find and two black Hekats for the same reason. They never went on sale. Everything else was 66% off firesale price - and now that I've chosen to stick with U.N.A. for the long term, I still can't bring myself to pull the trigger on paying "regular" prices for AT-43 stuff because, like you, I don't want to pay those prices, albeit for different reasons. I could certainly afford to - but for a niche game (for me, anyway) it's not worth it...eh, maybe some more Wing Troopers and another Cobra M8...lol...

I just wish we'd get some new on a UNA Army Box. I'm gun-shy about purchasing anything else until I find out what's in that set, but that could be years from now...

AT-43 is also one of the most "proxy-friendly" games I've ever encountered. WYSIWYG isn't really an issue for AT-43 players. See this Engineer? No, he's actually a Medic. Okay, fine. As long as your army list says so - I can readily differentiate his model from the rest of the unit, that's all that matters. See these missile launchers? They are actually Laser Guns. Okay, they're both the same special weapon no matter what they are, and now I know.

Once you find this out by doing your research, it doesn't take much imagination to put together bare-bones purchases and proxy away. Or enterprising modelers like yourself will do the sorts of conversions you have planned and keep things cheap that way.

But those lists on AT-43 addict - if someone is looking to save money, those are the lists to go with, because they are lists of proven quality and so, hypothetically, someone could ONLY purchase the units on those lists and be good for AT-43 play for the long run. They may choose to buy more stuff later, but they don't have to.

I think the reason why price is very much on your mind right now is because you have chosen to purchase three armies for the game, like I did - so your costs are through the roof, like mine were. If you stuck with just one or two armies, you would be done by now.

*Edited , im confusing people when i dont list names

LunaHound wrote:Guys guys .... We dont need to get into theories and psychologies . All we should do is give out the info and the options , and let the player decide what to do with them (and what they think is worth purchasing) .

No disrespect intended Luna but we are very much on topic. You want starter tips thread on AT-43, we are adding to it. You post links and pictures in the first post , the 'what is At-43'. Now if someone wants to make mini starter list recommendations such as St Anuman and Duncan does its all about 'which' and At-43 Addict link Cairnius posted describes its start lists in mini tacticas which is the 'why', my techniques are also about 'how' and relate mainly to purchasing. Our comments compliment each other and dont clash, readers to the thread can pick and choose what info is of use to them. Some might be focused on the coolest models, some on effective list making, some on the real world weekly budget.


Besides its you and Cairnius and Duncan and others? "against" me here, and I am not offended or riled in the slightest.

Cairnius wrote:AT-43 Addict assumes something: that the people going there are fans of AT-43. Fans of AT-43 were willing to pay full price, or the standard 25% you get from The War Store, when the game first came out in 2007. This site was built in the pre-firesale days, and is meant for the pre-firesale crowd, i.e. those who pay the regular prices and don't bat an eyelash at them.

Very true, but opportunity knocks.

Cairnius wrote:
Guys like you and me, we're the aberrations. We jumped onboard because the prices were low.

Not as rare as you might think, word on ther AT-43 forums is that numbers of new players has rocketed because of the firesale. Possibly from a different point of view to the one you are seeing as I will post below.

Cairnius wrote:
- and now that I've chosen to stick with U.N.A. for the long term,....

So you are staying on the ship yes. that will heal a lot of problems you have with the game.

Cairnius wrote:I still can't bring myself to pull the trigger on paying "regular" prices for AT-43 stuff because, like you, I don't want to pay those prices, albeit for different reasons. I could certainly afford to - but for a niche game (for me, anyway) it's not worth it...eh, maybe some more Wing Troopers and another Cobra M8...lol...

Ah this is where you are in error; or perhaps more fairly why I and other firesale bandwagon jumpers think differently to you. By being able to buy in now at a large level At-43 becomes firmly on the list of hobby games played. Once I have my 6000-8000pts of U.N.A. buying a Cobra M8 full retail is not a problem, note here I consider Warstore or CCG Armoury as the real full retail not RRP. Case in point I am alrerady committed to buying a Fire Crawler sometime soon, full price, I will just have to take the punch. The only reason I have not done so it not price per se, but because if I buy that now I might miss out on things I need to get on the firesale and I cannot buy everything at once so I must choose the order in which things are bought carefully. Now I have my armies I can pony out for wave 12+ new releases 9if any are not Cog) and not have to worry because it will be an ongoing investment. But it does mean that Cogs or ONI are likely out of the question for now unless I invest a lot of cash into the initial army sink, which I consider to be similar to the dilemma many players have about starting any new army.

Cairnius wrote:
I just wish we'd get some new on a UNA Army Box. I'm gun-shy about purchasing anything else until I find out what's in that set, but that could be years from now...

It wont be too far away. Karmans will likely be next as they are outside the other loss leader boxset: Damocles. But enough on how that is a saving blah blah. I wont repeat myself.
In any case the boxsets include a >>>>> hero and a *** vehicle for three reasons. First it gives the army deal a cool presence, the big toy in the boxset. Sec ond between the hero and vehicles 70% of the army is accounted for, so you dont get a real 2k point army, you get a few units plus the two expensive components to bulk out the list. Thirdly, GenCol lists excepted there is limited use for multiple top end units so there is limited benefit from buying multiple boxsets and customers must diversify into full price items to expand properly. Thus when purchases as multiple the army box will provide an increasingly poorer selection of add ons to an existing army.

The boxset also includes descent well thought out contents for the rest of the army, no attachment sets but a full tailored unit. This also both helps make the army worthwhile and also limits variety deliberately so you cannot entirely rely on army boxsets long term.

So with this pattern established we can fairly safely guess that the UNA box will contain the Fire Crawler and Copperhead and three other units for one full platoon at 2000AP. Therian army box will very likely contain Tiamat and a Baal Golgoth plus two or three units at 2000AP.

Due to the myriad possibilities I dont want to guess on the outfitting and choice of the ancillary units, only most if not all will be stock infantry.

Even bitz buyers like myself need some fancy footwork to beat the prices here. Minitures Market and at least one Uk store will be bitz offering the boxsets, this will mean low unit prices i will be buying two army boxes and bitz ordering more Krasny and Dragonovs cheap to get my 8K or Red Blok. However all the krasny have grenade launchers so while I could (i.e before other people get the same idea and the price per bit rockets) I bought as bitz five RPG soldaty with RPG's for a few cents each. This plus the one RPG gunner I will be getting elsewhere measn I have enough for swap out weapons for two hole Krasny squads with RPG's, thisd extends the usefulness of the limited sdelction of stock army box infantry. It pays to look out for opportunities like that, not all bitz are worth the same and bitz sellers are quick to notice important bitz. It costs $8.50 for a single Dragonov with AtGauss on Minitures Market, and they sold out at that price. sorry that is too much for me, I will do without or convert Sptesnaz flamer gunners.

Cairnius wrote:
AT-43 is also one of the most "proxy-friendly" games I've ever encountered. WYSIWYG isn't really an issue for AT-43 players. See this Engineer? No, he's actually a Medic. Okay, fine. As long as your army list says so - I can readily differentiate his model from the rest of the unit, that's all that matters. See these missile launchers? They are actually Laser Guns. Okay, they're both the same special weapon no matter what they are, and now I know.

Thats community not rules, in fact this is helped along by the poor distribution problems. Steel Troopers are very popular despite poor sales of unit boxes, Warstore have put them on extra discount and MM stock isnt shifting. I guess more people are swapping or buying multiple Damocles than it appears. However attachments are few and far between, people have no choice but to convert or repaint. Rackham would not be able to afford a WYSIWYG police even if it wanted to until it gets its act together and fixes distribution problems.
Besides they would not want to, even the doctrinal GW have come to the thinking that 'counts as' is to be encouraged not discouraged.

Cairnius wrote:
I think the reason why price is very much on your mind right now is because you have chosen to purchase three armies for the game, like I did - so your costs are through the roof, like mine were. If you stuck with just one or two armies, you would be done by now.

Very true, but timing will be important for me. Actually I am after four armies, not three. I cvheck MM every week and look at the stock levels, Karmans are not selling well even on discount. I can see why. I want Karmans but they were a fourth choice anyway. So I am taking a risk that I can buy all I want for the three main armies and see if the firesale is still on for Karmans late July. If it is I buy Karmans if not I walk away. I give my odds as 50/50 they will certainly be the last race still on firesale. I like ther Karmans enough to buy, but not enough to buy full price I am not interested. wheras I was termpted by Red Blok and UNA for a long time.
Now I am in the game I might eventually look at ONI, I like the concept from what I gather a Resident Evil Umbrella Corp set up. But I will hasve to get into that slowly, or not at all. With threre armies I might well stay with what I have got and buy my long put off Vampire Counts army instead. Cogs, no thankyou. Small numbers, high prices, and to my eyes fugly models means that I can safely avoid those without any temptation to buy.


In conclusion:
I am explaining my thinking in full because you should see it is not aberrant thinking but mainstream gamer thinking. case in point, because of people like me bitz business thrive. Furthermore all over Dakka and elsewhere the question comes up: which army next? these are big choices over big investments in time (not so much an issue with pre-paint) and money. For me the choices were Vampire Counts and Cygnar, and Circle Orboros. At-43 could not enter the list as I would need two armies minimum entry level with no community around. Firesale changed all that, I now have my game platform set up and running with spare armies to host game etc. So AT-43 armies at 'full retail' can now join the purchase order queue alongside Warhammer, 40k and Warmachine/Hordes. In each case a new army is a big investment to be made once to a few times a year depending on person and budget.
Right the way through the hobby from price rise threads through to army plans budget is a big issue, it forms an undercurrent to many threads. Just look how many people are scratchbuilding items they can buy on Forgeworld, I think price has a lot to do with that.

I don't suppose there's a store in Europe/UK with a similarly impressive discount?

Hope eveyones enjoying these Frost bite PDF's

I am reading them better now. The problem is when I click the download button I cannot press Open because that causes the page to stall indefinately. I can only Save it to disk.

So I get your downloads now, but for something like this I might not know if I want it before I see it, so having the Open function work would be a big help.

I see where you're at, Or...but I was really just wanting to comment, in the end, on why I thought it wasn't AT-43 Addict's job to do all the financial legwork for anyone. That isn't what the site is about. I criticize where it's due, but on this one...I really think you were off-target on any kind of suggestion that the site wasn't doing something it "should" have done.

While on the subject on buying into At-43 some bad news on the boxsets for Tabletopgaming news:

http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/2009/06/19/27783

Apparently Rackham have a history of delivery issues, anyone care to elaborate or is this just the next round of current instance of the China Trap.

So, they can spend the money to get it to France ontime but not anywhere else, is the long and short of it. Is AT-43 really that huge in France to warrant the extra funds just for one country's market, I wonder?