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Hi All,

Long time lurker. Finally had a question worthy (IMHO) of creating an account over. I would like opinions on the Dominion Squad from the Witch Hunters Codex. In it, it says that the Squad must be deployed within a transport vehicle, and then it goes on to list point cost for a handful of dedicated transport vehicles. I'm wondering, and I realize this is a stretch, but do you think it is possible to mount the squad in a transport vehicle not listed expressly on that page just due to the fact that it is a transport vehicle? For example, allied WH with IG, riding in a Valk. The first instinct is to say overwhelmingly no, but on the other hand, it doesn't say they must be mounted in a dedicated transport vehicle, just in a transport vehicle.

Let me know what you think.

-Brad

No, it must be a vehicle listed there. However, you are confusing Mounted with Deployed. They do not have to start inside the transport. They may, but do not have to. You can in fact place them inside a Valkyrie in reserve just fine. You still however Must buy a Transport listed in the unit entry.

You must buy them a dedicated transport - though you are not required to deploy in the transport you bought for them. There is nothing stopping you from putting the original unit in another, non-dedicated transport.

The codex is old and the wording clunky, but I'm pretty sure it means they must buy the transport from the options given and yes, it's a dedicated transport. Check the troops - they too "may be mounted for X points" instead of anything about dedicated transports.

So my 2 cents would be no, you may not decide to assign another squad's transport (or allied list HS landraider) to the Dominions in order to not buy them one of their own.

Gwar! wrote:No, it must be a vehicle listed there. However, you are confusing Mounted with Deployed. They do not have to start inside the transport. They may, but do not have to. You can in fact place them inside a Valkyrie in reserve just fine. You still however Must buy a Transport listed in the unit entry.

unistoo wrote:You must buy them a dedicated transport - though you are not required to deploy in the transport you bought for them. There is nothing stopping you from putting the original unit in another, non-dedicated transport.

This could actually be brilliant. I could put something I want a little slower moving in the Rhino and then rush the Dominion with 4 flamers right up to the enemy lines. Thanks for setting me straight!

The fun thing with Dominions is the Immolator you can unlock by taking them. An Immolator on its own is awesome in the current edition of the game, and gets even better when there are two meltagun totting troops inside!

SJ

Gwar! wrote:No, it must be a vehicle listed there. However, you are confusing Mounted with Deployed. They do not have to start inside the transport. They may, but do not have to. You can in fact place them inside a Valkyrie in reserve just fine. You still however Must buy a Transport listed in the unit entry.

You are wrong Gwar, it says they must be mounted in one of the vehicles listed in their entry....

DJ Illuminati wrote:You are wrong Gwar, it says they must be mounted in one of the vehicles listed in their entry....

So, mounted... what does that mean in the rules? I cannot seem to find any reference to what it means to be mounted. Or are you saying that they must be mounted AND NEVER LEAVE THE TRANSPORT BECAUSE OTHERWISE THEY ARE NOT MOUNTED?

"Mounted" means to have a Transport. "Embarked" means to be inside the transport.

What it means is they MUST buy a Transport, but nothing says they must start the game embarked, must stay embarked all game or cannot embark on another transport.

Gwar! wrote:

DJ Illuminati wrote:You are wrong Gwar, it says they must be mounted in one of the vehicles listed in their entry....

So, mounted... what does that mean in the rules? I cannot seem to find any reference to what it means to be mounted. Or are you saying that they must be mounted AND NEVER LEAVE THE TRANSPORT BECAUSE OTHERWISE THEY ARE NOT MOUNTED?

"Mounted" means to have a Transport. "Embarked" means to be inside the transport.

What it means is they MUST buy a Transport, but nothing says they must start the game embarked, must stay embarked all game or cannot embark on another transport.

God forbid you ever be wrong about something.....shall we also declare that the Adepta Sororitas rule only applies to groups of 2 or more sisters as it refers to them in the plural sense only, that would make take the rule from a Canoness

"oops she is the only SOB in her squad of one, she no longer counts as Adepta Sororitas"

quit trying to make up your own rules here it says plainly........

"Transport vehicle: The Dominions MUST be mounted in a transport. This may be a Rhino, costing an additional +50 points (see transports on page 33) or, if the squad numbers six models or less, it may be mounted in an Immolator for +65 points (see page 36)."

At what point does MUST BE MOUNTED IN A TRANSPORT become confusing to you.....lets look in a dictionary.......

* Main Entry: mount
* Function: verb
* Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French munter, monter, from Vulgar Latin *montare, from Latin mont-, mons
* Date: 14th century

intransitive verb 1 : rise, ascend
2 : to increase in amount or extent <expenses began to mount>
3 : to get up on something above the level of the ground; especially : to seat oneself (as on a horse) for riding

so "mount" means to get on or in something for riding..........but by your approach to the rule book, unless I can find a BRB entry for "additional" than I can assume my Rhino is free because I dont use "additional points"..... i use "points" to build my list!

such fanatical devotion to your blind form of RAW to go so far as to ignore words that are commonly found in the English language is counter-productive to anyone trying to have fun, other than yourself.

Yeah, they must take a transport, but a unit with a dedicated transport can be deployed outside of it. I have done this on a few occasions in the past. If you take the wording so literally, it would suggest they may never exit the transport, and will go down with the sinking ship when it is destroyed. That would make them even worse than they already are!

there is a certain level of common sense needed for this game.......

or if I wanted to be a fanatical RAW person I could claim that I could field 24 Immolators from that one squad as they dont need to be Embarked in it, it doesnt effect my FOC, and the listing did not specificaly say I couldnt...........if I have the points and want to ignore all aspects of RAI I see no reason why I cant do this in a tournament.

please notice that the rule saying they MUST be mounted in a vehicle was not my emphasis but GW's.......

by the logic that mounted means you must be in it at all times means marines could never leave their drop pods

By your logic they can never leave the Immolator either.

Your rude tone and breaking of the new YMTC rules is unwarrented.

DJ, I think you're wrong on this one.

What they mean is that the squad must have one of the vehicles listed as a dedicated transport. Following your rather literal interpretation of the rules dj, it would seem that the poor dominions can NEVER EVER EVAR!!!! leave their dedicated transport because they wouldn't be mounted anymore.

Gwar! does follow a very strict RAW version of the rules to play 40k, but at least he's not following a very strict literal form of the english language to play it, in which case a lot of things wouldn't make sense. There's a meaning of the word mounted in the rulebook and in a games sense; and there's a broader meaning of the word mounted in general english (which has absolutely no bleeding value in games of 40k)

Edit: Hate being ninja'd. *shakes fist at Gwar!*

Gwar! wrote:By your logic they can never leave the Immolator either.

Your rude tone and breaking of the new YMTC rules is unwarrented.

How is it a rude tone, I am stating how I feel your view is wrong by giving examples, anything else from that point on is simply an opinion on the impact of such views on the game.

At what point is obstinate posts with no true foundation aside from a "purposely" skewed reading of a rule going to be seen as unwarrented????

Pretending to not know what mounted means just shows that RAI has a very clear reason to exist, if for no other reason than to prevent Codexs from being written as machine code so zealots cant make up their own definitions to what were thought to be clear and understood rules.

I know what Mounted means. Are you saying that they may never leave their transport?

And then if you think you're reading of the rules is correct, you agree then, that the dominions can never leave their transport?


Edit: Ninja'd by Gwar! AGAIN. I swear to Khorne if it happens again I'm gonna....

bsohi wrote:DJ, I think you're wrong on this one.

What they mean is that the squad must have one of the vehicles listed as a dedicated transport. Following your rather literal interpretation of the rules dj, it would seem that the poor dominions can NEVER EVER EVAR!!!! leave their dedicated transport because they wouldn't be mounted anymore.

Gwar! does follow a very strict RAW version of the rules to play 40k, but at least he's not following a very strict literal form of the english language to play it, in which case a lot of things wouldn't make sense. There's a meaning of the word mounted in the rulebook and in a games sense; and there's a broader meaning of the word mounted in general english (which has absolutely no bleeding value in games of 40k)

Edit: Hate being ninja'd. *shakes fist at Gwar!*

So NOBODY has considered that maby what they are trying to say is that the Dominion squad must start the game in one of the vehicles that they have to purchase........no rule says that they have to stay mounted....... just one that say that they must be mounted. COMMON SENSE would assume that once the game started that the requirement of being mounted had been met and they may then play the game as normal.........

DJ Illuminati wrote:COMMON SENSE would assume that once the game started that the requirement of being mounted had been met and they may then play the game as normal.........

Common Sense as dictated by you? To me, Mounted means they have a Transport and have the option of starting the game inside it, but by no means have to.

Gwar! wrote:

DJ Illuminati wrote:COMMON SENSE would assume that once the game started that the requirement of being mounted had been met and they may then play the game as normal.........

Common Sense as dictated by you? To me, Mounted means they have a Transport and have the option of starting the game inside it, but by no means have to.

Other than GW writing a codex with the word MUST in big bold print when stating that the unit MUST be mounted in a vehicle from their options.........

Yeah, they Must be mounted in a vehicle, so you can't take them without a Transport. You must take a transport, nothing indicates they must begin the game inside it and never leave (as that what mounted means according to you).

And if you agree that they don't have to -stay- mounted, who dictates at what point they disembark their transport?

All the rules say is that they -must- be mounted. And if you allow that they can in fact disembark, they would no longer be mounted, which they -must- be. And I don't think you need a dictionary definition of the word must, do you?

Either you have it one way or the other mate. Common sense dictates that you take the word 'mount' and equate it with the closest gaming equivalent, which would be transports, and more specifically "dedicated transports".

if everyone wants to quote RAW to the extreme then concider this.....

it says MUST BE mounted......not MUST STAY mounted.....

It specified that they MUST BE MOUNTED in a vehicle listed in their options........

once a game has started then the MUST BE part of the rule has been met and the lack of a MUST STAY rule can now be observed.....

No, no, you cannot twist this now. You claim they Must be mounted. If they disembark, they are not mounted, but they must be mounted. Nothing says they can stop being mounted, so they must remain mounted, so they can never disembark, even if the vehicle is destroyed.

I hope you can see this is utterly barmy and, well, wrong.

Essentially it means to take them as a squad, you need to buy a dedicated transport. The Dominion squad, doesn't need to be in the transport at the beginning of the game

No twisting this, because as soon as they get out of their vehicle, they are no longer mounted. The rules clearly state they must be mounted.

Step by step working of your interpretation.

1) Dominion squad must be mounted in rhino
2) Dominion squad in rhino (1 still applies)
3) Dominion squad gets out of rhino (Breaking rule 1)
4) Their rule is no longer satisfied, and a black hole opens in the board destroying all models because you broke the rules.

And if you say they can start the game outside of their dedicated transport, this WHOLE thing is solved, no one is saying they don't have to pay for one of the transports on the list (which they do) we're just saying they can choose to start the game in a different non-dedicated transport, or on foot if they so choose.

Modquisition on:

Gentlemen, politeness is required. Lets also give a scan to our new tenets of YMDC.

why is it so hard for you guys to see the nature of the rule and yet view it in such black and white terms so as to either ignore the rule (dont need to start the game in the transport) or to take it to the extreme (cant ever leave the transport)

If someone was to ask you for a bowl of cereal would you bring them a bowl with one piece of cereal because they didnt state explicitly that they wanted a full bowl, or would you pour the whole box of cereal into a tiny bowl because they didnt tell you to stop pouring...... those seem the be the kind of options that you guys would offer.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gwar! wrote:No, no, you cannot twist this now. You claim they Must be mounted. If they disembark, they are not mounted, but they must be mounted. Nothing says they can stop being mounted, so they must remain mounted, so they can never disembark, even if the vehicle is destroyed.

I hope you can see this is utterly barmy and, well, wrong.

how am I twisting this.... this is the stance I have held since the start of this thread.......

But you're the one holding the strict definition here mate!

I'm saying equate the term 'mounted' with the gaming term of 'Dedicated transport' whose rules we all agree on and are clearly understood. The rules, in essence say, that the dominion squad must buy a dedicated transport.

You're the guy who broke out a DICTIONARY definiton of the word mounted, instead of just going with the commonly agreed on gaming meaning of the word...

Don't try and paint -us- as the black and white hardline extremists....

bsohi wrote:No twisting this, because as soon as they get out of their vehicle, they are no longer mounted. The rules clearly state they must be mounted.

Step by step working of your interpretation.

1) Dominion squad must be mounted in rhino
2) Dominion squad in rhino (1 still applies)
3) Dominion squad gets out of rhino (Breaking rule 1)
4) Their rule is no longer satisfied, and a black hole opens in the board destroying all models because you broke the rules.

And if you say they can start the game outside of their dedicated transport, this WHOLE thing is solved, no one is saying they don't have to pay for one of the transports on the list (which they do) we're just saying they can choose to start the game in a different non-dedicated transport, or on foot if they so choose.

but this is the point were we disagree, it says in the codex that they must start in a dedicated transport.........with a big bold MUST in print as if GW wanted you to see the word -must-, almost like they wanted it to be a rule......