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I have just got a new tau army so I decided to read up some on their tactics. It seems everyone hates the firewarrior. Is it because kroot are just better?

Rapid fire str5 seems good to me. So what so wrong with the Fire Warrior?

too expensive and too fragile.

Compare to IG Stormtrooper(has STR3 AP3 wep 4+ sv).

supposedly FW are supposed to benefit from Marker Lights(but there's not enough ML available due to either costs or FOC slot filling).

Usually those ML are primarily used for Crisis suits, Broadsides, and/or Seeker Missiles so the FW doesn't get much.

I, personally, see nothing wrong with fire warriors. They have one of the best basic troop rifles in the game, definitely the best basic range and their BS3 is at least moderate. Unlike most other basic troops choices, they can destroy AV10 and glance AV11 with a nice plasma salvo, which is another advantage; you can use your infantry to aid in your light AT fire.

The problem is, of course, their absolutely bad close combat skill. Just don't go there. Apart from that, I like them.

Shooting ork boys with a 4+ cover save:

12 fire warriors (120 points) vs 17 kroot (119 points)

FW: 12 shots -> 6 hit -> 4 wound -> 2 dead orks.
Kroot: 17 shots -> 9 hit -> 4 wound -> 2 dead orks.

and kroot get better CC, better cover saves, and infiltrate.

But what about the fact that FW can take transports plus their range is thirty so they get to fire two salvos while the kroot fire one

Small mobs of kroot can go in a spare devilfish just as easily as fw can. And infiltrate means you can start a lot closer to where-ever it is you want to go.

Also, kroot will make up the kills from their lost salvo with cc.

That said, I'd take more fw for mech or gunline, and more kroot for hybrid.

The true problem with firewarriors is that they are a shooty unit that's terrible at their job.

So let's say you face mech eldar, and the eldar player, noticing the firewarriors, intelligently kills your very slim anti-tank hammerheads. Great, those shooty firewarriors shoot at a waveserpent and nothing happens.

Plague marines with double plasma foot slog into 24" of the firewarriors, after taking 1 round of shooting. Now who wins that shoot war?

A space wolf droppod scatters and drops 18" away for the firewarriors. THe space wolf player chooses to run and forgoes shooting. Now, will that one round of shooting save the firewarriors from their fate?

Imperial guard veterans park themselves 31" away with a heavy bolter. Who wins that shoot war? The magic range is 25-30, very small window of effective shooting on a unit that can't move and shoot. Or hurt armor value 12. Or monstrous creatures with 2+ saves. Or plague marines...etc etc.

Firewarriors are junk...

They cost too many points.

firewarriors need BS4, and need heavy weapons... rail rifles + others.

they should also have the option of taking fusion blasters... 10 firewarriors, packing carbines and fusion blasters with EMP grenades would be an awesome tank hunting force.

When I played Tau I used FW in small sized squads with a markerlight on the shas'whatever (sgt.) I played a gunline style that focused on getting fire from my broadsides and crisis suits to win the game. I used a squad of pathfinders and my FWs to provide the markerlights. It worked pretty well for me.

Kroot, when used with kroot hounds, can make for a nice picket type unit, slowing down mobs of orks or gaunts for a turn or two and buying your gunline more time to get off shots.

They usually just die whenever i play against them. Really isn't that hard to get into CC with them. They need something that can help keep the enemy at bay a tad bit longer for them to shoot at.

They need heavy weapons.
Pulse rifles are great and all, but i'd rather have one BS4 missile launcher than 12 BS3 pulse rifles.

They are too expensive.
For 10 points they are GEQs with super bolters and a 4+ armor save. Guardsmen in cover are twice as surviveable, and score more wounds on average than the FW against almost all targets.

Their transport is sub-par
The devilfish needs to be either less points, be fast, or have a better armament. Just let the damn thing take rail rifles, missile pods, etc.

Kroot are better.
At everything except shooting at 24-30 inches.

They have crap leadership.
Maximum squad size 12 means 3 dead fire warriors = 50% chance to break and run.

They are garbage in CC
A squad of rapid-firing pulse rifles, aided by markerlights, is a terrifying thing. Until you realize that the remainder of whatever squad you just shot at is going to eat you in CC.

I agree that fire warriors do not function very well as a individual unit but the T'au aren't meant to be played like that.

Fire warriors are the master of the short ranged fire fight, a Str5, AP5 weapon can force saves on MEQs and outright kill IG, Orks and nids. granted their BS3 can ruin your day but thats what marker lights are for.

it would be great if the FWs could take a heavy weapon. the only problem is see with that is that all the T'au heavy and assault weapons are too big for a fire warrior to carry. (the pathfinders look so awkward with those 8' rail rifles)

prehaps if they made it so you didn't HAVE to take them.

fIRE WARRIORS ARE aWERSOME!

Fire warriors need a couple of things;
1)To be more core/central with markerlight generation

2) To have a better access to drones whereby these drones have support heavier weapons

3) To have a more dynamic seeker missile system. 10pts for a seeker missile (Yes BS5) but which requires a markerlight hit first (which are common) on a BS3 is a TOTAL overpriced rip-off. So variable missile yields & armements, better access, cheaper costs.

4) Better stats. Better/specific rules

One or all or a mix of the above ^ ^

The big problem is that FW are a unit that was meant in 4th edition to be a speed bump to protect the suits while they did the real damage. With troops only scoring, the same tau tactics of tossing away units to protect the suits doesnt work and KP means neither can drones be of any use.

Horrible troop choice for a game that usually depends on troops to win.

generally i use kroot for all the fighting and FWs to sit on objectives.

Drone mounted Heavy weapons sounds like a winning idea, forge world makes some cool ones with twinlinked burst cannons and another with a burst cannon and markerlight.

Maybe twin-linked plasma rifles, twin burst cannons, smart missile systems, rail-rifles, and 2 seeker missiles with a markerlight.

You think the tau would be able to make a close-combat drone of some sort. even if it just had a power weapon and maybe the drone would split off of the squad if charged while the FWs could make D6 inches fall back move to avoid CC.

What's wrong?

No special weapon, no CC ability to speak of, not good enough transport...

If they could just take a railgun in a ten man squad there would be nothing wrong with them.

Hah! that's how you fix 5th Edition Tau, RAILGUN SQUADS! Give them special weapon choices like tactical squads. Fusion blaster, Railgun, Ion Gun. And they can still take marker drones to let them shoot better....of course this is all shouts into the silence when noone listens :(

Please, no burst cannons on drones suggestions. Its even more S5/AP5 short range firepower that won't do anything until the enemy are ready to assault.

Tau need to take a page from the fantasy warhammer, give them stand and shoot, with wounds caused by this counting towards combat res, give them a chance to shoot the hell out of the thing about to assualt them, and then another load of fire when they are getting assualted.

The fire warriors is a filthy xenos, and as such is incapable of seeing the divine and holy light of the emperor of mankind. He shall be stomped by power armored boots for this.

Honestly, tau are just an out of date codex. They arent bad, but need some serious work.

actually, a cool upgrade would be to give them assault 2 30" rifles, and just increase their points cost by like 4 per model. let them actually reach out and do some serious damage at long ranges....

Overall, I think Fire Warriors might be an underrated unit in the game. For 120 points, you get 12 guys with a 30 inch range and S5 rapid fire weapons. At long range, you will cause 5 wounds against T3 and 4 wounds against T4. Not bad for a Troops choice. When using them to support your battle suits and tanks, Fire Warriors can clean up the remains of orc and nid units left alive after a hammer head hit or bring down the odd MEQ or two left standing after Crisis suit plasma death. At close range, the ability to pump out 8 wounds on MEQs is huge--especially on the odd turn your opponent rolls miserably.

Like all units, they appear much worse when seperated out from the rest of the list. But when used properly on the battlefield, they are quite a good support unit and can hold the odd objective or two reliably.

Fire Warriors only need a small price drop and a reasonably priced option for a networked markerlight, in fact all markerlights should be networked simple as that.

Special weapons bwelong elsewhere, Tau are all or nothing, Fire Warriors provide basic firepower, if you want fusion blaster support get Stealthsuits. Tau units are not supposed to be independent of each other but interdependent on each other.

You put Fire Warriors down to 7 points you will start seeing Tau win some games. Keep the lousy leadership, that is what the Ethereal is for.

If you want Markerlights, take Pathfinders. They are cheap anyway, for what you get. Speaking of which, if you want to make anything BS4, give Pathfinders a targeter upgrade and all those Markerlights will actually hit something. They are in Fast anyway.

If you hate Fire Warriors that much, do not take more than one squad. Kroot are a great second choice.

For a unit that is meant to shoot well:
MEQ: 3+, 4+
FW: 4+, 3+
(against toughness 4).

No difference and they are the heavy bolter fodder.

Fire warriors, first of all, are mandatory, so you might as well make good use of your one squad you'll have to take anyway. Load them into a pathfinder devilfish, go around and FoF anything you can find. Against Joe Average's toughness of 3, they wound on a 2+. Plus, they are effective from 24" away, if you move the fish 12", plus the fish can fire an additional 5 shots at the same strength, two of which can pin, if you're lucky. That said, they need to be combo'd with something. Markerlights, for the pinning and crappy BS. Maybe have one or two anti-infantry suits around just in case you can't give them markerlight support.

Firewarriors are also a great fire base, if you want to camp them on a home objective, or if you really hate them you could get a warfish, plop your mandatory 6 generic fire warriors inside, and hunt objectives with that.

Ah, yes, one important caviat kiddies. (Fallout reference? Anyone? No? Ok.) Don't try to footslog firewarriors. As far as walking goes, firewarriors are failures. Their armor sucks too bad, and they will get chewed up in two turns if no one assaults them first. Plus, those hooves just don't look very comfortable to go hiking on, now do they? I've heard of some people successfully footslogging carbine warriors, but I won't advocate this, since I've never tried it. Wanna footslog? Go kroot.

Nothing, they're cheap for one of the best guns in the game and a 4+ save. They can also be put into extremely small squads for scoring transports.

Too expensive, no heavy/special, 3rd Ed transport cost. Pull a point/model, institute some kind of heavy/special or alter those markerlight missiles so they don't suck, and balance the devilfish against the chimera. Then you'll get somewhere.

Same problem the necrons have. Turns out for most troop units the squad character, heavy weapon, and special weapon does nearly as much damage as the rest of the unit combined.

with all the lenses on their helmets they should be bs4..

But I forgot humans are the best and can shoot just as well with a tin can on their head.