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Quick question on skimmers:

a skimmer model rests on its little see through stand. Apparently if a skimmer disembarks troops (i.e Falcon, Valk/Vendetta), it lands to drop off the troops. Is this taken into account for LoS? i.e if i can see the top of a Falcon over some buildings, can i not see it because technically its "landed" and the only reason i can see it is the extra height of the base?

Also, a friend read some ruling where skimmers always land at the end of their movement. Should the model be taken off its base so it can "land" at the end of a turn? are Skimmers really hoppers, hopping across the battlefield instead of skimming?

whats the go Dakka?

Always use TLOS. The models physical position is what is used.

edit: And the skimmers do NOT land at the end of their move. They are just not allowed to have their base suspended in air.

Jihallah wrote:a skimmer model rests on its little see through stand. Apparently if a skimmer disembarks troops (i.e Falcon, Valk/Vendetta), it lands to drop off the troops. Is this taken into account for LoS?

No. The LOS rules rely solely on the actual position of the model.

Also, a friend read some ruling where skimmers always land at the end of their movement.

There is no such rule, although some people misread the skimmer movement section to say that. It actually says simply that the model must be placed on the table at the end of the movement. That doesn't mean that you have to take it off its flight base and 'land' it... it's just a clarification that the skimmer sits on the table like any other model, and can't be considered to be hovering 12" up in mid-air so it can see over obstructions.

Ok cool. What about a Skimmer disembarking troops? must it land? CAN it land, if you choose to? since you can obviously gain some cover this way

No it can't land. It does not get taken off its base unless immobilized. Skimmers disembark troops just like any other vehicle, within 2" of its access points or hull if open topped.

Rule clarified! no more responses needed (unless you're correcting someone)

The only skimmer that can land is the Devilfish, which actually has rules for it....

Otherwise everyone above is correct

nosferatu1001 wrote:The only skimmer that can land is the Devilfish, which actually has rules for it....

Otherwise everyone above is correct

All the Tau Tanks can land...although there isn't much point to it...

Indeed, the Landing Gear Vehicle upgrade does nothing now.

Gwar! wrote:Indeed, the Landing Gear Vehicle upgrade does nothing now.

Almost nothing. It can remove your ability to dodge rams.

I usually run my devilfish without the stand because I keep breaking the damn thing off. Technically still counts as a skimmer and if it becomes immobilized I throw out a marker stating it is immobilized.

rogueeyes wrote:I usually run my devilfish without the stand because I keep breaking the damn thing off. Technically still counts as a skimmer and if it becomes immobilized I throw out a marker stating it is immobilized.

I've broken my fair share of stands also. But i'll keep buying more until i get around to making one out of metal or something.

I try to use the flying bases they come with on my Falcons but I've broken one, I generally give people the benefit on LoS because it should be on the stand even thought it's not. Things like the devil fish especially as they stand a good 2-3" higher up on the stand than they do without it. So for shooting at it and for shooting from it it should be considered to be on it's stand.

Aramoro

This is off-topic, but there's a quick & easy solution to the flying stand breakage problem.

(1) take the flying stand and clip off the smaller "tip" part that supposedly goes in the hole in the bottom of the tank.

(2) enlarge the hole in the bottom of the tank using a drill bit (I'd give you the exact size, but I don't remember--you just have to make it a little bit larger, big enough to accommodate the shaft of the flying base).

(3) insert the shaft of the flying base peg into the new, larger hole, and give it a slight turn. Friction will hold it in place and the thicker parts of the flying base peg is strong enough to hold the tank up.

I started doing this a couple of years ago on my eldar tanks and SM speeders. Haven't broken or lost a base since then.

Why clip off the small tip at all? Seems like more work for exactly the same outcome.

Aramoro wrote:I try to use the flying bases they come with on my Falcons but I've broken one, I generally give people the benefit on LoS because it should be on the stand even thought it's not. Things like the devil fish especially as they stand a good 2-3" higher up on the stand than they do without it. So for shooting at it and for shooting from it it should be considered to be on it's stand.

Aramoro

It gets a benefit from LoS for less of it but it also prevents me from using Fish of Fury effectively.

rogueeyes wrote: it also prevents me from using Fish of Fury effectively.

I thought 5e did that already?

FoF is still usable, in that you get close, rapid fire, and feel safe behind your fish/drones. It's only against models with 5+ saves that the hight of the devilfish becomes important.

Ridcully wrote:Why clip off the small tip at all? Seems like more work for exactly the same outcome.

Yes, you could just widen the hole and have the skimmer rest on the wider, stronger, tapered flying stand rod while having the narrow tip left on. Should be fine either way.

Leaving the tip on works for some of my models, but on others the tip of the flying base contacts the inside upper surface of the model and prevents the shaft from sliding far enough into the hole to "bite." Probably because they're old forge world resin conversions. Also leaving the tip on creates problems for vypers.

So rather than having some bases for some models and others for other models, I just clip the tips on all of them.

I make a little glob of green stuff around the whole the base goes into on my wave serpents. Haven't had a problem with broken bases yet.

I do the 'enlarge' the hole method myself so that the model is supported by the main shaft and not the tip.

Have done so since the Falcon/Fire prism came out back in 2nd ed.

chromedog wrote:I do the 'enlarge' the hole method myself so that the model is supported by the main shaft and not the tip.

Begging to be taken out of context...

I used to use both the greenstuff and the *ahem* 'clip the tip' methods. Nowadays I glue on magnets to the clipped tops and also onto the vehicles. Makes transport easy and finally leaves me feeling fairly safe that my Raiders will stay on their bases. A fairly easy method even for a modeling schmuck like myself.

Offtopic: Dark Eldar Raider + Magnets = Win

Ridcully wrote:FoF is still usable, in that you get close, rapid fire, and feel safe behind your fish/drones. It's only against models with 5+ saves that the hight of the devilfish becomes important.

except for the fact that you are firing through your own unit, so even if you can see, the enemy will get a cover save. at least, thats been my understanding of the rules, (not that they get it that often anyway, GO GO MARKERLIGHTS)

Fizzywig wrote:

Ridcully wrote:FoF is still usable, in that you get close, rapid fire, and feel safe behind your fish/drones. It's only against models with 5+ saves that the hight of the devilfish becomes important.

except for the fact that you are firing through your own unit, so even if you can see, the enemy will get a cover save. at least, thats been my understanding of the rules, (not that they get it that often anyway, GO GO MARKERLIGHTS)

Shooting under the devilfish doesn't grant a cover save unless by TLOS it physically obscures at least 50% of the models in the target unit. Fire warriors are small enough that it's quite possible to have full view of the enemy unit.

deleted!

I thought that firing though a unit at another unit always granted a cover save? Or is this different because the skimmer is "flying"?

That was my reading of the rules as well Nivoglibina. I think the 50% obscured thing only applies to vehicles.

I think what Ridully means is that half or more of the target unit has to be in cover to get a cover save. Since the cover in this case is from obscurement, then half or more of the target models have to be obscured (although, for non-vehicles, each model only has to be slightly obscured) to count as in cover.

So if the top of the Firewarriors' heads are obscured but their eyes are down low enough to see an enemy without the undercarriage blocking anything (or obscure targets for less than half of the firing models), it would work. But you'd probably want to have a laser pointer to prove it in game.