Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi all, I need some help deciding on my final unit(s) for my list I'm gonna be using in the GT, the majority of the list is as follows:

Farseer - Fortune, Doom, Spirit Stones, Runes of Warding, Jetbike
175
6 Warlocks - Jetbikes, 4 Destructor, Embolden, Enhance
330

6 Fire Dragons
Wave Serpent - EML, Spirit Stones
226

5 Dire Avengers
60

Fire Prism
115

Fire Prism
115

Falcon - Scatter Laser, Spirit Stones, Holo-Fields
175

as you can see that leaves me with 304pts spare, now the 2 options I've come up with are

1) add
10 Dire Avengers - Exarch, 2 Catapults, Bladestorm [152]
Wave Serpent - EML, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones [140]
as well as adding a Cannon to the Dragon Serpent, which would leave me 2 pts spare

2) add 2 units of
6 Jetbikes - 2 Shuriken Cannons [152]

Anyone got any opinions on which of these 2 would be more effective?

List 1:
Farseer is ok.
Locks: too many destructors, no enhance?

Dragons are meh.
Troops are ok.
Hvies are ok.

LIST 2

Exchanging Serpent squad for GJB, though I think they are better with an Embolden Lock.

Aye, I like dragons ability to take out elite troops, MCs and tanks, theyre more versatile than people think.
Anyone else?

dragons are great! I'm surprised to hear someone say otherwise. In this many points though there many not be room for them.

The meh part is the DAs not bladestorming. That many points for a unit that holds objectives but otherwise is completely useless is bad imo.

As for the two options, option 1 is definitely better.

Looks alright.
Fiddle around with warlock powers.
I would go Option 2 -simply because i feel you need atleast 3 Troops.

I'd vote for Option 2 in a competitive environment. Good objective grabbers.

Dracos wrote:dragons are great! I'm surprised to hear someone say otherwise. In this many points though there many not be room for them.

The meh part is the DAs not bladestorming. That many points for a unit that holds objectives but otherwise is completely useless is bad imo.

As for the two options, option 1 is definitely better.

Of COURSE he is gonna say Dragons aren't good, he's Nurgle and nurgling his pants at the thought of them. :-)

I'm gonna go with option 2 when I get the models together (jetbikes are expensive!) Until then I'll stick with the Avengers

Farseer - Fortune, Doom, Spirit Stones, Runes of Warding, Jetbike
175
6 Warlocks - Jetbikes, 4 Destructor, Embolden, Enhance
330

6 Fire Dragons
Wave Serpent - EML, Spirit Stones
226

5 Dire Avengers
60

6 Jetbikes - 2 Shuriken Cannons
152

6 Jetbikes - 2 Shuriken Cannons
152

Fire Prism
115

Fire Prism
115

Falcon - Scatter Laser, Spirit Stones, Holo-Fields
175

total:1500pts

Well, looks quite good.
However, if you mix jetbikes and heavy skimmers then the enemy might have a chance to target the Jetbikes
by using weapons that are useless vs. skimmers, like heavy bolters.

@Wustenfux True, but in a list with Jetseers that's kinda inevitable

How do you set up your army with a Seer Council?

bobdole4eva wrote:@Wustenfux True, but in a list with Jetseers that's kinda inevitable

How do you set up your army with a Seer Council?

First, I'd target a flank of the enemy so that I'd set up the army along a flank.
If you go second, I'd deploy the skimmers in front of the jetbikes.

First, I'd target a flank of the enemy so that I'd set up the army along a flank.
If you go second, I'd deploy the skimmers in front of the jetbikes.

Sorry for the confusion, I meant what units would you use in a Seer Council list, because I assume it won't be as heavy on Skimmers as mine is?

Well, the two GJB squadrons are rather vulnerable to small arm's fire,
and all three jetbike units together have a rather large foot print on the board.
I'd take only one unit of GJB's and two units of Avengers or Storm Guardians in Serpents, dropping the Falcon.

Which heat are you entered in?

@Ketara - Heat 2, how about you?

@Wustenfux - I assume dropping the dragons too, maybe something like this?

Farseer - Fortune, Doom, Spirit Stones, Runes of Warding, Jetbike, Spear
178
6 Warlocks - Jetbikes, 3 Destructor, Destructor+Spear, Embolden+Spear, Enhance+Spear
339

10 Dire Avengers - Exarch, Cats, Bladestorm
152
Wave Serpent - EML, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones
140

10 Dire Avengers - Exarch, Cats, Bladestorm
152
Wave Serpent - EML, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones
140

6 Jetbikes - 2 Shuriken Cannons
152

Fire Prism - Spirit Stones
125

Fire Prism - Spirit Stones
125

1500

The very same! I guess I'm scoping out the competition here then.

Withouts brightlances or fire dragons you will run into issues when it comes to popping tanks. I'd really suggest taking fire dragons... Or at least two bright lances. (Fire prisms LOVE to miss when you need them the most)

Get an avatar. they pwn.

As said, as you dropped the FD's you better give the Serpents bright lances.

How does this look? Not on bikes, but serpent spam is ftw.

Hq
Farseer Spirit stones, Doom, fortune 140
Warlocksx6 1xEnhance, 1x Embolden 170
Transport Wave Serpent 12-12-10-3 Spirit stones, TL brightlance 145

Troops
Dire Avengerx10 Exarch, 2x catapults, Bladestorm 152
Transport Wave Serpent Spirit stones, TL scatterlaser 125
Dire Avengerx10 Exarch, 2x catapults, Bladestorm 152
Transport Wave Serpent Spirit stones, TL scatterlaser 125

Elites
Firedragonsx6 96
Transport Wave Serpent Spirit stones, TL brightlance 145

Heavy
Fire Prism Spirit stones 125
Fire Prism Spirit stones 125

1500

Looks much better to me.
Allshooting weapons with strength 5 or less are useless when your army approaches.

I'm not a fan of Bright Lances (the debate between all these guns has gone on for years and will continue to do so) because they lack versatility. With EMLs I still get my Str 8 shot, but also the option of a Str4 defensive shot, and for way cheaper, and my Council (or dragons if I put them back in) and Prisms only as a back up, can take out heavy tanks easily.

Just so I don't forget (this isn't my home comp) this is the list I use right now because of a lack of models

Farseer - Fortune, Doom, Spirit Stones, Runes of Warding, Jetbike, Spear
178
6 Warlocks - Jetbikes, 3 Destructor, Destructor+Spear, Embolden+Spear, Enhance+Spear
339

6 Fire Dragons
96
Wave Serpent - Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones
110

10 Dire Avengers - Exarch, Cats, Bladestorm
152
Wave Serpent - EML, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones
140

5 Dire Avengers
60

Fire Prism - Spirit Stones
125

Fire Prism - Spirit Stones
125

Falcon - Scatter Laser, Spirit Stones, Holo-fields
175

1500

This list looks quite similar to the original one.
Next, you need to play test.

Aye, got a game at uni tonight, shall post a batrep if I can remember how the battle goes

bobdole4eva wrote:Aye, got a game at uni tonight, shall post a batrep if I can remember how the battle goes

Good. Let us know how the army works.

Right ok, last night I played a chaos marine list, the player used 1 Sorcerer with Lash, Plague Marines in a Rhino, normal Marines in a Rhino, Havocs in a Rhino, 2 Spawn, 2 Oblits, 4 Nurgle Bikes and 2 units of summoned daemons. It ended with a draw, partially because of his crazy good rolling to penetrate vehicle armour, and partially because my Council was tied up for 2 turns against 1 Oblit.

The biggest problem I had with the list was the lack of troop choices. By turn 5 all my Avengers were dead, and I only just forced the draw. Because of this I have decided to remove the Falcon and the 5 man Avenger unit, keep the 10 man unit and add the 12 jetbikes I talked about earlier, thus giving me 3 troops choices, all of which are powerful and useful.
Next issue I had was with the Seer Council, I didn't know what role to give them, the choices were too much. I ended up not using the heavy flamers at all, and the singing spears were bad because I got fewer attacks in combat, so I think before my next game I'm taking both of those things out.

Here's the list that came out of it.

Farseer - Fortune, Doom, Spirit Stones, Runes of Warding, Jetbike
175
6 Warlocks - Jetbikes,Embolden, Enhance
290

6 Fire Dragons
96
Wave Serpent - Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones
110

10 Dire Avengers - Exarch, Cats, Bladestorm
152
Wave Serpent - EML, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones
140

6 Jetbikes - 2 Shuriken Cannons
152

6 Jetbikes - 2 Shuriken Cannons
152

Fire Prism
115

Fire Prism
115

total:1497

1500

Going up against chaos rhino spam you wont use destructors unless you're going to try to pop the rear armor of a rhino with them so you could assault it's cargo. But against almost every other army you're going to find places to use that strength 5 template that usually can get 6+ hits (from just 1 destructor) on any horde while it ignores cover and negates any armor save that isn't MEQ.

That said the list is basically a staple mech list with a few changes. You should be able to do well with it once you learn to play it. It's not the strongest list possible but it's not the weakest either. Most of the changes I would make have been stated already so now it's up to you. Either way, if played right this one will cause many problems for any opponent.

A smart enemy will go against your troops as early as possible.
Indeed, you were really light on troops.
I doubt that the army would work better with two GJB squadrons.
Those units have too many downsides in competitive play.

If this list is ment for competative "all commers" play Id find 10 pts for RoWit. If you fail your fortune the council will die and then thats 450pts down the drain. Also, destructor should not be removed.

Well, does RoWit improve the rolls for psychic tests?

Without RoWit: 4/(6*6) = 0.111 of failure: 55 56 65 66.

With RoWit: 8//(6*6*6) = 0.036 of failure: 555, 556, 565, 655, 665, 656, 566, 666

Warp attack (66 or 11) or failure without RoWit: 5/36 = 0.138.

Warp attack (11*, 1*1, *111, 666) or failure with RoWit: 24/216 = 0.111.

you fail to take into account what the RoWit is really used for. Thats when your opponent is eldar and brings a RoWard against you, or when you face a screamer zilla list ect. If you KNOW that you wont be up against anything anti psy like this then Embolden will be more than enough to make sure that you get your fortune of.