Turbo Boost & IC's

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Falconlance**

long and short.

Can an independent character who can achieve the necessary coherency range, join a unit that has already turbo boosted that round?

As he was not in that unit when it turbo boosted, can he have performed any other voluntary action previous to joining it?

**Thor665**

Can an independent character who can achieve the necessary coherency range, join a unit that has already turbo boosted that round?

Yes he can, there's nothing in turbo-boost or IC joining rules to prevent this.

As he was not in that unit when it turbo boosted, can he have performed any other voluntary action previous to joining it?

Interesting angle. IC joining rules have no obligations on that front - so, yes, he may have performed other voluntary actions and still join as long as he can move into coherency.

**Falconlance**

And thus, the work around for farseers not being allowed to fortune their turbo boosting bike squad was born.

**Sanctjud**

Which means the Seer would be sitting in a different squad, then joining up during movement.

This is only reliable IMO at the very first turn when you want to turbo boost. I don't think it's healthy or works as smoothly when the game gets on though.

**Falconlance**

yeah, i agree. Thats the idea though. Hopefully fortuned turbo-boosting will keep you alive turn 1 while you get into range, then the carnage you cause in the following rounds will diminish the need to turbo boost again.

**Sanctjud**

Meh.
When I run my council, I don't 'use' the rules to get around something.

I generally just fortune up and move 12" forward and use the 6" in assault to move forward again.
Else: I have a second Seer.

I personally think its... bitchy, but to each their own.

**BlueDagger**

Falconlance wrote:yeah, i agree. Thats the idea though. Hopefully fortuned turbo-boosting will keep you alive turn 1 while you get into range, then the carnage you cause in the following rounds will diminish the need to turbo boost again.

Clever solution and completely legit. +1 tactical skill for Falconlance

**don_mondo**

Course, it could be argued that once he joins the unit, they no longer qualify as turboboosting....................... As at that point they did not all move over 18".

**Falconlance**

don_mondo wrote:Course, it could be argued that once he joins the unit, they no longer qualify as turboboosting....................... As at that point they did not all move over 18".

that would result in all but one of them moving 6'' beyond their regular movement phase, and all still being allowed to shoot and then move another 6 in the assault phase, since they no longer qualify as turbo boosting.

I'd take the turbo boost ruling.

**BlueDagger**

Tough call on the above situation. What is to say though that only the models that turbo boosted receive the 3+ cover?

**Ridcully**

BlueDagger wrote:Tough call on the above situation. What is to say though that only the models that turbo boosted receive the 3+ cover?

Turboboosting grants 'the bike' a 3+ cover save. They don't reference 'the unit'.

**BlueDagger**

Yay for me being right

**solkan**

Falconlance wrote:
don_mondo wrote:Course, it could be argued that once he joins the unit, they no longer qualify as turboboosting....................... As at that point they did not all move over 18".

that would result in all but one of them moving 6'' beyond their regular movement phase, and all still being allowed to shoot and then move another 6 in the assault phase, since they no longer qualify as turbo boosting.

I'd take the turbo boost ruling.

Don Mondo is actually stating the rule incorrectly. Bikes turbo-boost by simply using the turbo-boosters. It's only the cover save that's contingent on the unit moving at least 18" from its starting point.

So the counter argument to Fortune-and-join is free from side effects. It's silly to turbo-boost and only move 2" (and thus not get the save while being unable to do anything), but the rules let you do it.

**don_mondo**

solkan is correct, I misstated what I was trying to say. The unit would still count as turboboosting. However, per the LAST line of the turboboosting rule, it does not qualify for a cover save. as the UNIT has not ended it's move at least 18" away:
"A unit using turbo-boosters must end its move at least 18" away from its starting point to claim this cover save, as it relies on flat-out speed."

**Thor665**

The question though becomes when is the movement checked for the unit.

Is it checked after the unit has declared a turbo-booster movement and moved?

Or is it checked when the unit is shot at?

If it's checked when they are shot at, what happens if a turbo boost unit is lashed and moved back towards its starting point?

**kirsanth**

Based upon the words "must end its move" it would seem to be measured after the move(s), rather than just before it is shot.

**Thor665**

I would concur with that assessment. But if it's measured after the move it then brings into question if you need to remeasure after an IC joins the unit or not.

**kirsanth**

The issue is that it is no longer the same unit -- or at best (as mentioned) it is partially that unit and partially models that did not get the turboboost.

Or is it ok to move half of a squad 18" and the other half 16" and get cover?

**Thor665**

I don't think half of a unit should get the cover save. Allow me to breakdown where I think this question potentially enters a gray area.

Option 1
Unit of jetbikes moves.

Check to see if 18" from starting point.

They are - unit has turbo boost cover save.

IC joins

Option 2
Unit of jetbikes moves.

Check to see if 18" from starting point.

They are - unit has turbo boost cover save.

IC joins

Re-check to see if the new unit has moved 18" from starting point, has two starting points. Entire unit not 18" from one point, entire unit is 18" from other point. Which point do you use and why?

**kirsanth**

Double post?!

Checked N&B -- its not just me!!!

I agree about the grey area, but I think I would err on the side of caution. No cover save if the whole unit does not end its movement 18" from its start - if the IC is part of the unit that is pretty difficult.
May just be me, though.

**Webbe**

The part about displacing at least 18" only mention the unit, not models.

I would consider a unit to be displaced 18+ inches as long as at least one of it's models meets that condition.

**don_mondo**

Whereas I wouldn't..............

**Webbe**

I find it similar to the rule counting all models in a unit to have moved even if only one actually did so.

**don_mondo**

And I don't............. In this case they're trying to gain a benefit.

**Thor665**

kirsanth wrote:I agree about the grey area, but I think I would err on the side of caution. No cover save if the whole unit does not end its movement 18" from its start - if the IC is part of the unit that is pretty difficult.
May just be me, though.

No worries - I was just hoping you'd be able to point me to something I missed to clear up the gray. Another GW ruleset house rule needed situation on the books, huzzah!

Edit - swiggity-sweet, I'm now on a Ravager. Fear our plasma weaponry that doesn't overheat you pathetic Imperium fools!

**kirsanth**

BAH!!!!
Universal Special Rule.
Lost when joined by a character without it.

Editing to add a giant *FACEPALM*.

**InquisitorFabius**

I agree on the totally gray area. I would personally ask for a roll-off on the decision.

**kirsanth**

The only confusion is whether an IC could join at all then, as it would prevent the (jet)bikes from moving that far.

**Thor665**

kirsanth wrote:The only confusion is whether an IC could join at all then, as it would prevent the (jet)bikes from moving that far.

I'm not sure where you're going with this - most ICs joining with (jet)bikers tend to be mounted on (jet)bikes as well.

I agree that a footslogging IC joining after the move would suck the rule away from the unit and prevent the cover save if that's what you're driving at. The question still remains if the IC is mounted though.

**Ridcully**

kirsanth wrote:BAH!!!!
Universal Special Rule.
Lost when joined by a character without it.

Editing to add a giant *FACEPALM*.

Exactly, you should all be ashamed of yourselves for making the discussion this long.

*edits previous post*