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OK all, here's the situation. I am running an Apocalypse game this summer and it will be huge. So huge I've started planning it now. Anyway, the terrain will include the Emperor's Ziggaraut-Throne complete with the Emperor sitting on it. The game will take place at the end of Earth's history - and as such, the Emperor will awaken from his long slumber and come down from the throne whereafter he will 1) serve as a moving objective and 2) partake in combat randomly. He will, without discrimination, attack Imperials and Enemies of Man alike (hey, the guy kills 1000 psychers per day just to survive - what are a few units of Space Marines here or there?)

So OK, I am not an expert on the fluff, so here are the questions I'd like to throw out there for you:

1) What do you think about the concept of The Emperor coming back to life (to defend the Terra from destruction)?
2) What sort of model do you think would make a good Emperor? I was thinking maybe an Inquisitor-sized Space Marine, but I am open to any and all ideas.
3) I need ideas for modeling his throne - especially details on how it is supposed to look, plus any other ideas you may have.
4) Assuming that the board is a Terra Board, what other terrain would you hope to or expect to see?
5) Other ideas/thoughts either gameplay or background?

Please comment on any or all of these topics!

Thank you,
Solorg

I think it is a great idea, aside from the random attacking things, er, thing.

The Emperor would not, in my opinion, randomly attack anything, and certainly would not blast his own loyal subjects, at least, not the Space Marines, who have probably stayed closer to his actual vision/wishes than any other branch of the Imperium...

Solorg wrote:OK all, here's the situation. I am running an Apocalypse game this summer and it will be huge. So huge I've started planning it now. Anyway, the terrain will include the Emperor's Ziggaraut-Throne complete with the Emperor sitting on it. The game will take place at the end of Earth's history - and as such, the Emperor will awaken from his long slumber and come down from the throne whereafter he will 1) serve as a moving objective and 2) partake in combat randomly. He will, without discrimination, attack Imperials and Enemies of Man alike (hey, the guy kills 1000 psychers per day just to survive - what are a few units of Space Marines here or there?)

So OK, I am not an expert on the fluff, so here are the questions I'd like to throw out there for you:

1) What do you think about the concept of The Emperor coming back to life (to defend the Terra from destruction)?
2) What sort of model do you think would make a good Emperor? I was thinking maybe an Inquisitor-sized Space Marine, but I am open to any and all ideas.
3) I need ideas for modeling his throne - especially details on how it is supposed to look, plus any other ideas you may have.
4) Assuming that the board is a Terra Board, what other terrain would you hope to or expect to see?
5) Other ideas/thoughts either gameplay or background?

1/2) Concept = ok. Not sure if he needs to participate as model.
3) There isn't a given design. Just a throne.
4) Buildings. Terra is a sprawling world with layers of buildings for all its inhabitants.

Good info. First off, I understand that it might seem weird for the Emperor to be taking out Space Marines. This would be a game balance thing, the only other way to handle it would be to assign him a points-value and add him to the Imperial Side. But not sure how to do that since I'm likely going to make him invulnerable and really powerful.

1hadhq suggests not adding him to the battle at all, which might not be a bad idea. Either he'd be scenery or maybe he'd just roam the board at random (?)

1hadhq, I thought I read somewhere that the Emperor's Throne sat atop a giant ziggaraut. Is that right? I wonder if anyone knows more about that.

1) Doesn't fit with any of the well known theories. Unless the Illuminati succeed I suppose...
2)54mm might be too big. Look up truescale marines. And use lots of gold.
3)well, his throne room itself is probably larger then New Jersey. His actual throne is a life support machine that he is plugged into, and is a part of, since he's pretty much a corpse, externally. The throne sits above an entrance to the webway.
4) Like I said, his throne room alone is bigger than some countries. I'd expect to see pillars and a red carpet, and not much else.
5)There's no way he'd attack Imperial subjects, and using any sort of terrain where his throne would be featured would be dull, due to the description of where it is, as described above. Now, this Emperor model figting in a hive city... That would be different.

Thanks for the information, Commander. Did your information come from one of the novels? Or maybe somewhere more obvious (ie Space Marine Codex)? All I've really read is the backstory in the 5th Ed Codex so far.

I'm pretty sure that I heard somewhere that his throne sits atop a giant ziggaraut with like 1000 psychers chained to it (sacrificial lambs to the slaughter). Ha ha, now THAT would be a challenge to model, don't know if I am up for that. Still, hadn't heard about the webway portal beneath the throne (how can it be UNDER the throne?) Sounds awesome, tho, please tell more. Is the portal called up by the Emperor's psychic powers? Is it a natural portal, or what?

Thanks for the info!

You might like this thread:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/257813.page

Solorg wrote:Good info. First off, I understand that it might seem weird for the Emperor to be taking out Space Marines. This would be a game balance thing, the only other way to handle it would be to assign him a points-value and add him to the Imperial Side. But not sure how to do that since I'm likely going to make him invulnerable and really powerful.

1hadhq suggests not adding him to the battle at all, which might not be a bad idea. Either he'd be scenery or maybe he'd just roam the board at random (?)

1hadhq, I thought I read somewhere that the Emperor's Throne sat atop a giant ziggaraut. Is that right? I wonder if anyone knows more about that.

I think there is no actual description of his throne room.
Cmdr Endova seems to refer to the visions of ..heresy art books which got released with the card game IIRC.
In rulebooks or codices:
Maybe pics of the gate to this room. Don't know where this ziggurat idea comes from, but if it is part of the old
Emprah was born in XXX theory then yes, a ziggurat as typical ancient temple of sumeria ( irak ) could be geografically a correct design as "ride".

The inclusion of a figure like the emperor in a game needs some considerations:
1) should it be possible to kill it?
2) who benefits of its presence and how?
3) are there one mighty leader per side? A counterpart to the Emperor?
4) really neccessary as participating model or better off on the sidelines , cheerishing forward his minions...
5) behaviour of the players. A badly modelled/painted emperor wouldn't really help your game...
6) behaviour of players II. Maybe too many players may focus on killing the emperor?

IMO, a benevolent figure that grants benefits but is untouchable could work.
Now, a fighting emprah would be awesome, but mind you, if he can't do as the fluff implies, youre screwed.
People have their own idea of him, so making him too OP or not OP enough...

Would try to field him as "rallying point", a mobile generator of "autopass this test" options.
Surely not across the table just a serious distance, like 24" ?

In Abnett's Custodes story from Tales of Heresy, I think it's described as large enough to have its own weather. Rain is considered a good omen, IIRC.

Now there's an idea I haven't considered - having a SECOND unkillable being on the table in addition to The Emperor of Mankind. I wonder who this would be? I am thinking a representative of Chaos.

Yes, I figured it would be a cute idea to make The Emperor an objective - so everyone wants to be close in order to claim the objective, while at the same time, The Emperor is destroying all in his path.

I agree that it makes the most sense for The Emperor to refrain from killing his allies. Having a counterpoint to the Emperor would solve this, I think.

I am thinking that the Emperor would be unkillable. I am also thinking that units he engages in combat would have to pass a Ld check or else get swallowed into the Warp, have their souls sucked out by The Emperor, or some other such powerful attack.

I imagine that The Emperor would move each (Imperial) turn according to a scatter die up to his max movement probably 8 if the charge is counted, 4 if there is no one to charge). At least, I can't see any reason to make him uberfast.

I think that attacking him back would be pointless since he can't be killed... the only reason to do it would be to claim him as an "objective."

I just think it would be amazing if The Emperor returned as the Savior/Destroyer. Of course, I'd be happiest if there was a decent "fluff" way to do it. Half my players won't know the difference, the other half know more about it than I do, so there you have it.

I also wonder what the Astronomicon would look like and whether it could serve any purpose in the game.

Manchu, when you say the Palace (Throneroom??) is gigantic, you weren't kidding!

Rather than having him as a unit, why not as a piece of interactive terrain?

Just poke around on the Lexicanum for a while. You'll find all the info you'll need. That's where I pulled most of mine from. Look up Terra, the Golden Throne and the Gate of Eternity.

The Throne Room is described as being large enough to hold sixe Space Marine companies, and the gate the Golden Throne sits atop is big enough for a Warhound Titan to pass through.

If you're going to use the emprah as a unit, try decking out a dreadnought. Since he's basically a shrivelled corpse plugged into a machine I think it may actually be the best representation.

Lint,

This is a very good idea, actually. The Golden Throne does keep the Emperor alive, so in some sense, it seems strange that he'd be able to survive without it. I'd originally considered modeling him as sort of a Professor Xavier type, floating around in a hover-chair, but that's not very 40K. Your idea - Emperor in a Dread, would be pretty much perfect. I would think it should be a gold dread, as I believe Commander Endova suggested.

Some info.

The hall that has it's own weather system is in the Imperial Palace, but it's not the throne room.

The golden throne was originally built as a psychic focusing device to allow access to the webway. It was only CONVERTED into a life support machine after the Heresy. It sits in the centre of a room called the Emperor's Laboratory, deep underground in the Palace, which is still a pretty fething massive room. Whole armies assembled etc etc... There's no experimenting there anymore though, it's now where the psykers get sacrificed to the Astronomican, and where the Soul Binding occurs.

The emperor, externally, is a shrivelled corpse in a web of machinery, not a glowing guy on a real 'throne'. Nobody can even really tell if he's actually alive, except by the fact that the Astronomican is still going!

Because of this, if the Emperor is present even the BIGGEST table would barely represent the laboratory itself. Scenery would therefore be cabling, equipment and crates plus loads of devotional things, and of course a thousand psykers being sacrificed...

Even if it the scope of the board stretched outside the lab, it could only represent even more of the palace.

Information from my head, gleaned over the years from all rule books, Lex, Rogue Trader, the HH artbooks etc..

Useful links

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/e/eb/Emperor_Imperial_Palace_Rogue_Trader.jpg

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/e/e8/God-Emperor.jpg

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Emperor

Arbitor,

Thanks for this great input. It sounds as if the entire board will have to be the Throne Room and/or the Palace. The board is going to be (probably) 4x20, so it will be a good size.

Re: The Emperor coming back to life:

"The Illuminatis' experiences have brought them to a level of harsh realism that has no equal. The Illuminati are devoted solely to mankind's preservation. Ultimately this goal involves plotting to bring about the rebirth of the Emperor of Mankind. They realize the Emperor's mind is failing, his will fragmenting into warring parts, and that there will come a time where the Emperor has deteriorated to the point where his will finally breaks. Without the Emperor, mankind will fall to Chaos. The Illuminati plan to rejuvenate the Emperor by sacrificing his descendants, the Sensei, at the moment the Emperor's will finally fails. The Emperor will be reborn, as the Sensei-Emperor, to again lead humanity directly. Their plans are a carefully kept secret; should the Emperor learn their plan, he may see no reason to continue to endure, and allow himself to die prematurely. Should the Sensei learn, they may be unwilling to meet their intended fate."

from:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Illuminati

as per ArbitorIan's links - thank you!

Other ideas?

Personally i would base the emperor more on Throne of Judgement/penitent engine with a godly marine/corpse on it (for the throne idea) - otherwise go for a truescale/biggerised marine idea.

Though you could make him a capturable object - just make him a bodyguard of Custodes who need defeating before he is "captured". This would need balancing of course - though i believe that unless a suitable house rule is created, the emperor + retinue will get pie-plated to a silly degree.

To solve the crap battlefield idea - you could fight in the webway, with a bit of work creating some good fluff it could be believable - also the emperor could still be used; maybe it is his psychic projection or something in there helping (reasoning why he can't be killed?). You would need a good reason for anyone other than chaos demons attacking through the webway though.

this all, however, revolves around having a) decent story/fluff b) decent models to represent the awesome characters.

sounds very promising all the same.

i look forward to seeing more of this!

Vlad

interesting concept for a game, they have said pretty much what i was thinking, mainly that the emperor wouldnt attack his subjects. i do however like the idea of him being a moving objective, that would add a unique feel to such an epic battle. The throne and emperor should be painted with incredible amounts of gold and the such...and the throne should be rather large...and by rather large i mean VERY LARGE

Vlad-X7 wrote:
To solve the crap battlefield idea - you could fight in the webway, with a bit of work creating some good fluff it could be believable - also the emperor could still be used; maybe it is his psychic projection or something in there helping (reasoning why he can't be killed?). You would need a good reason for anyone other than chaos demons attacking through the webway though.

this all, however, revolves around having a) decent story/fluff b) decent models to represent the awesome characters.

Erm... you realise that the various eldar kin are most common in there than daemons?

And those sacrificed to the Astromicon aren't killed in the throne room, they form a psykic choir in a perfectly spherical hall at the summit of Mt Everest; they're trained to do whatever the funny psykic focusing act is and then willingly take their seats and project as long as they can, burning their very soulstuff until they die and are removed to let the next take their seat. Unless you mean those 'rejected' psykers that are sacrificed directly to the Emperor to sustain him?

Morgrim wrote:Erm... you realise that the various eldar kin are most common in there than daemons?

aye - i forgot about the space fairies.

anyway - plenty of different ideas, i'd like to see pics/blog maybe.

For Chaos, a popular view on their "End of Man" was the rise of Abbadon to Godhood.

For Eldar, I think it had something to do with the Phoenix Lords all coming together on the same battlefield.

then again, Its just stuff I read.

Vlad-X7 wrote:Personally i would base the emperor more on Throne of Judgement/penitent engine with a godly marine/corpse on it

Ooh I like this idea. Penitent engine, and place a zombie corpse or skeleton in it. Kind of like the dreadnought idea, but you can actually show the deteriorated body inside. Consider that idea stolen!

Re: ideas to make the board more interesting - yes, I was thinking of somehow using the Emperor's immense psychic powers as an excuse to create gates. You know, I could have one table to represent Terra (Throne Room) one to represent Mars maybe and also Luna. I guess another way I could add interest would be to assume that the palace had been destroyed with just the throne itself still intact - and with makeshift enemy strongholds littering the battlefield around it (making this literally the final battle of 40K as we know it).

Someone called for pictures / blog entries on this project. Not much to show yet, but here is the fan fiction I wrote and sent to players. The game WILL happen this coming May, though in what form exactly, I can't say yet. There will be pictures!

There will be 8 players total, maybe a 9th.

Backstory follows:

yay pictures! -looks good,you've put a load of effort into this!

I look forward to seeing what happens in May

Vlad

Wow, this looks like its taken huge effort! Nice turn out!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yes, Rank up!!!

Just have to admit here that the pictures you see are random pictures from the net (I can't take credit for the work). The backstory is written by me, the pics are just for inspiration.

My game - coming up in May. Until then, I am busy painting models (Orks!) and terrain.

Of course, will post up pics of my game when I hold it (it is going on this coming Summer).

Very well, months ago I promised to keep all of you up to date on the massive game of APOC I've been dreaming of. Well, the next decisive step has happened - I have acquired a 2nd and a 3rd gaming table now for the battle. The board will be 21' x 4' and the battle is expected to be 40K points per side. For your viewing pleasure, I have for you the table in question. Coming next - the Blood Angels' Space Port, and lastly, my Green Tide - Yes! - still in progress.

To Mods - apologies for the Rez, but it seemed the best place to put updates about this Kustom Apocalypse Event.

Better pics to come.

Right I don't know if your still looking for ideas but if you are I thought of something that could work.

If you have the emporer himself as a soldier on the imperial side, make very powerful and have some rules e.g. when he looses all his wounds he looses some of his power for that turn, then next turn he recieves another D6 wounds with all his power returned.

To compensate for the emporer you could have the webway breaking up and pouring waves of daemons into the map each turn. I think if d6 units of daemons (possibly including greater daemons) deepstrike in random locations (have some special rules to prevent them from deepstriking into things) around the map each turn it would probably be even.

4M2A wrote:Right I don't know if your still looking for ideas but if you are I thought of something that could work.

If you have the emporer himself as a soldier on the imperial side, make very powerful and have some rules e.g. when he looses all his wounds he looses some of his power for that turn, then next turn he recieves another D6 wounds with all his power returned.

To compensate for the emporer you could have the webway breaking up and pouring waves of daemons into the map each turn. I think if d6 units of daemons (possibly including greater daemons) deepstrike in random locations (have some special rules to prevent them from deepstriking into things) around the map each turn it would probably be even.

I like your idea. It would reward the opponent for trying to attack him, but he would remain invulnerable. I like it!

This game is still 2 months off - beginning in May. So yes, all comments and ideas are welcome!

if you need to know what the throne looks like look in the 4th ed BRB inside the front cover and the front cover of the 5ed BRB as well.

4ed has the ascent to the golden throne.

5ed has the emperor himself sitting on the great throne.