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The Dark Angels FAQ States:

"Q. There are a number of cases where things
with the same name have different rules or
characteristics in Codex Space Marines and
Codex: Dark Angels, such as the different
transport capacity for the Land Raider. There are
also a number of new items of equipment in the
Space Marines Codex that are not this one.
Which version of the rules should I use, the latest
version, or the one in Codex: Dark Angels?

A. Strictly, you should always use the rules from
your own Codex, and this is the default solution
you must use if you and your opponent can’t
come up with a better one (you’ll find that this
might be the case in tournaments, for example!).
However, always keep in mind the foreword we
have written to all of the Errata and FAQ
documents, as well as ‘The Most Important Rule’
described on page 2 of the Warhammer 40,000
rulebook, which states ‘… it is important to
remember that the rules are just a framework to
create an enjoyable game.
Winning at any cost is less important than making
sure both players – not just the victor – have a
good time.’ On this basis if an opponent asks you
if it’s okay for them to use the latest version of
the rules for a piece of equipment, or if they can
use a new item from Codex: Space Marines in
their own army, then you should say ‘Yes, of
course you can!’ Please note that ‘The Most
Important Rule’ cuts both ways, and because of
this, if you feel that a piece of new equipment
might spoil the game for your opponent by giving
your own army an unfair advantage, then you are
honour-bound not to use it.
As you can see, the nature of the Most Important
Rule means that it’s impossible to give a black
and white answer to any question that may arise;
instead you and your opponent need to discuss
things and come up with the answer that makes"

So, if this was a tournament, would you let your opponent use the new transport capacities for his vehicles? What about newer versions of storm shields and such?

Personally, I say: Let them use the new stuff! The Dark Angels Codex is widely regarded as one of the crappiest, most boring, most "Jerviscized" codex out there. So why not let them have a little bit of fun, and a small squeeze of competitive juice?

What do you all think?

I voted no and I play DA.

wilsmire wrote:I voted no and I play DA.

Any reason for this? Besides you being a tournament-masochist?

Budzerker wrote:

wilsmire wrote:I voted no and I play DA.

Any reason for this? Besides you being a tournament-masochist?

Because he likes playing by the rules? Because he likes playing his own army and not some zombie hybrid?

Also, those colours make the text illegible, keeping the linebreaks serves no purpose and a multiple answer Poll for a Yes/No Answer is pointless.

Let me guess, you want to use the new rules but keep the old points cost yes? And I bet you want to keep the Older, better Psychic Hood Rules yes?

The points and rules are different for a reason. DA get Fearless Terminators as Troops, other chapters don't. My Space Wolves have different transport capacities for their Drop Pods and Land Raiders, but I do not have the nerve to try and whine and say they they should be the same as Codex: Ultramarines and Pals

Budzerker wrote:Any reason for this? Besides you being a tournament-masochist?

No I'm not a tournament-masochist. If you play to there strengths and build a well rounded list you can win with the plain old codex DA. Case in point last year at the Ard Boyz I was 3rd in the qualifiers . And that was do to the fact I lost my last round to a vanilla SM player that fudged some of the new rules

Your poll is very biased. Should be 'yes', 'no', 'maybe'. The no option you have intentionally is degrading to anyone that picks it.

I don't think they should use it because... it doesn't say so in the codex. Simple as that. The most important rule doesn't apply to "I deserve free upgrades".

The rule is "If your opponent says you can", which is the guideline for everything, so I see no more reason to say "Yes" to this than to say "Yes" to allowing a guard player to have T4.

No.

Not for DA. Not for BA. Not for GK. Just no.

At one particular RTT I had to face a GK list that magically got the new Power of the Machine Spirit, 3++ Storm Shields, and a few other goodies because the T.O. said it was okay. I still won, but such a blatant "he's a local and he spends money here, so I'll rule in his favor" attitude really pissed me off. Also beat a CSM army owned by the same person but played by one of this friends. I'm surprised he didn't try to claim that his Land Raiders got PotMS too, but not surprised that he won "Best Painted" with his buddy's army. Took my "Best General/Best Overall" and left, haven't returned to that store, and won't.

If you want to play a friendly game and say that you get to pull rules from any codex, or that any figure touched by a die is auto-killed with no saves allowed, or whatever else you have in mind, I hope you have fun, but you'll be playing somebody other than me. But in a tournament setting, it shouldn't be allowed under any circumstances.

Just. No.

TakeABow wrote:Your poll is very biased. Should be 'yes', 'no', 'maybe'. The no option you have intentionally is degrading to anyone that picks it.

I don't think they should use it because... it doesn't say so in the codex. Simple as that. The most important rule doesn't apply to "I deserve free upgrades".

Man!

If there was one that said "Maybe. I would go through his list first and see how much of an advantage it gives him. I care about winning so I don't want to give him an advantage and/or it would ruin my "fun" to let him use the new stuff. Cause I'm an 40 yr old arse and I like to beat younger kids at these games and rub it in their faces cause I can afford more army then they can option and all the girls love me"....

I *so* would have chosen that one instead (even though I only meet maybe one or two of those....the girls love me and afford more army parts, of course)

But, I was just being bland and chose the "play by your codex" selection.

I play DA (as a secondary army) but Ive had no problem with the rules. Ive played a game where I used the new rules & new point cost but I felt it gave DA way too much of an edge.

If the DA player wants Space Marine gear, he can just play the Space Marine dex.

No.
If you want to play the DA dex, you play the DA dex.
If you want the shiny new vanilla space marine rules, play vanilla space marines.

Take the good with the bad from your codex. At this point, I'd usually make a crack about the Dark Angels and their questionable inspiration, but the DA players that are standing true to their codex have impressed me. Enjoy your wings, robes and slightly outdated rules! It will make you better players when you get a shiny new codex with the Fallen (that don't give up KP) Interrogator Chaplains and whatever other fluffy things that you've been waiting for. I know starting with the old Ork dex certainly made me a hardier Ork player.

Look, if I was just playing in the shop for fun or against a friend, then yeah, you can take whatever rules you want from whatever book you want (apocalypse, imperial armor, ect) and even mix up rules or change them... all in good fun. But a tournaments all about winning.. lets be honest. So the only way for it to be fair is to follow the rules (with tournament house rules applying to all).

well the wording of that poll wasn't even vaguely baised :s but no, you have a codex, you have benefits and downsides, you can't pick and chose the rules you like from other dex's because they are 'similar'
If you can I want leman russ' in my tau army because tau have human allies in the fluff

Kyley wrote:well the wording of that poll wasn't even vaguely baised :s but no, you have a codex, you have benefits and downsides, you can't pick and chose the rules you like from other dex's because they are 'similar'
If you can I want leman russ' in my tau army because tau have human allies in the fluff

Well said. (Though I accidently voted yes. Curse work for trying to keep my mind on work and confusing me!)

But in a casual game we could come to an agreement, I sure wouldn't mind it in a non-tourny setting.

gee, that's one of the most biased polls i've ever seen. no vote from me even though i agree with the OP. next time try making a poll where your personal opinion isn't glaringly obvious.

I voted yes. I used to play Dark Angels, they used to be my main army until fourth edition came out. Anyone remember that FAQ that basically told you not to use the DA codex but instead to use the 4th ed SM codex but with stubborn terminators for +5 points? Then when the actual DA codex came out...underwhelming codex of the century award. And the final cherry on top was the Jervis Johnson actually said in his designer notes that he made the codex so that 13 year olds could understand it...My dark angels have been in storage ever since

Taking 8 5 man squads with new TH/SS and one of the new CML's per squad at 2500 is broken beyond repair so no, they shouldn't get the same equipment.

I have no issues with DA taking all the changes, or none of them. No picking and choosing though.

I voted "no", even thought it was a massively insulting way to write the poll choices.

Tip for the future - try to remove personal bias from your polls. A simple "yes, no, maybe" would have been enough.

In a tournament setting, i would vote no. In a casual setting, i would vote why not?

Talk about a poll with leading questions.

Perhaps reword it as:

"Yes. Because the Dark Angels are so terrible they need every advantage possible."
"Maybe. It depends if my opponent also wants even cheaper Rhinos and assault Dread drop pods from the Imperial Armour rules."
"No. Because I play Necrons, and my Dark Angel opponent insists I play them as written."
"No. Because once the new Blood Angels codex comes out, they'll want wargear and rules from that 'dex, too."

then see how many positive responses you get.

I agree ghost, this is not a very well written survey at all and is in fact biased in the way it polls.

I vote No and I play DA.

Dracos wrote:I have no issues with DA taking all the changes, or none of them. No picking and choosing though.

Likewise. If it's a friendly game, I would have no problem with it at all, so long as its consistent.

I've played Dark Angels since they first appeared and I would never ask to use 'better' rules from another 'dex.
The current codex may well suck like a suckbeast on suckday after drinking a pint of suckjuice at suckbucks but its what we've got so either put up with it
or go vanilla.
Voted no and, as others have advised, make your poll less biased.

Ugh, I hate situations like this... Watched two people playing the other day. One playing Vanilla Marines, the other playing DA.... The DA guy was CONSTANTLY WHINING about how the Vanilla players wargear was better... If you want their wargear, play Vanilla marines!

nosferatu1001 wrote:I voted "no", even thought it was a massively insulting way to write the poll choices.

Wow... You guys really need to lighten up. "Massively Insulting?" Really? I insulted you and your mother personally did I? :-P

The "no" option above has the "and/or I don't agree with them using it" for a reason. So you can use an "or" in there and just go with the second part of "I just don't agree with them using it."

The first part is mostly a joke (some people might actually consider it broken) and the FAQ does instruct us to use "The most Important Rule".

Seriously, you guys are waaaaay too sensitive....

Also 1 or 2 of you perhaps didn't read the FAQ section:

Gwar! wrote:Because he likes playing by the rules? Because he likes playing his own army and not some zombie hybrid?

Using the Dark Angels dex but using the new wargear rules with opponents permission as per the FAQ are all legit rules. So you would be well within "playing by the rules".

No you either play as DA w/ their rules or regular marines you shouldn't be getting the best of both codexes.