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Not sure that this is actually a tactics question.. I have temporarily loaned out my copy of the Codex, and need help remembering how the Squads are set up. Is it just like a normal Platoon, with a Command Squad and 10 man units, or is it just blocks of ten troops, up to the unit max of 50?

Conscripts are bought as part of an infantry platoon. They come in the form of a single squad (per platoon) consisting of any number of conscripts between 20 and 50, inclusive.

just one huge blob.

You don't even need to take them in groups of 10 anymore, just the original 20, and then you can add them on individually.

One massive blob of BS2.

Starts at 20 people and maxes at 50.

That with the right order can get off 150 BS2 shots

Anpu42 wrote:That with the right order can get off 150 BS2 shots

Of course to do that they have to test against Ld5, unless you also add an IC in there. If you want anything better than Ld7 you're looking at 70 points and an HQ slot. And just for the conscripts you're paying 200 points for 50-ish (if the order works) lasgun hits. 200 points could also buy 4 infantry squads with 36 lasguns and 4 laspistols who under the same circumstances would get 112 shots at BS3. But then you don't really buy conscripts for their shootiness.

Not if you have Kell

But anyways I can see thier use expecialy in 3k+ Games
Take Chenkiov and send in the next wave along with 2-3 50 man Conscripts and 2-3 priest.
[And about 6 pounds of Dice]

And if you're using Kell you're now spending 85 points for the leadership and using a senior officer to give frfsrf.

Conscripts and priests should play well together while they last, though the priests won't like send in the next wave.

Conscripts are about Synergy.
Them in a Vacuum Suck, but with the right combination can be killer. Here is one way to do this.

You take 3 Characters
-Creed
-Kell
-Commander Chenkov
1+ 50 man Conscripts [I think of them like I do Blood Claws, Minimum size units are a waste] with “Send in the Next Wave” and a Priest.

Put them in your backfield as Counter Deep Strikers.

{Poof} 3 Deathwing Terminator Squads pop in and shoot you up a little.

1] You move the Conscript squad between the DW and the Target Unit.
2] Creed give the order “For the Honor of Cadia!” to the Conscript Squad. That will most likely make it’s Leadership 10 Check [Thanks Creed and Kell]
3] Attempt to Assault, successful or not it does not mater, they are now fearless.
A] If it is successful you slam into them with 50 guys. Sure they have a WS of 2, but you will get to make re-rolls for your hits and they will be S-4, I-4 and all of you go off at the same time. You will take a lot of wounds, but who cares there are 50 of you, you should survive.
B] If you miss he has to move around you next turn.
4] His next turn is dealing with them one way or another, you have nullified them for one turn in one way or another.
5] He finishes them off his second turn so be it.
6] It is now your turn once more Reinforcements Arrive, See #1 Rinse, Repeat.

Anpu, I see a major problem with that scenario: conscripts can only move 12" a turn (7-12 if they don't get the chance to assault). Until your opponent decides to deep strike suicidally close to that massive, slow, unwieldy unit, they're pretty much dead weight.

50 conscripts with SITNW: 275, plus you have to buy Chenkov. Your strategy for using them depends on Kell to receive orders.

40 guardsmen, 4 power weapons, commisar with power weapon, vox: 290. Better? I bloody well cocoa!

You don't win by making your opponent kill you multiple times, (and SITNW is positively useless in KP games) you win by kill him, and guardsmen are better at it than conscripts.

And I might Roll nothing but "1s"
His Deep Stike may Put him off the Table
I might win the 1st turn of Close Combat

I thought this was about Conscripts, not What is better than conscripts.

If I already have Creed/Kell on the board and Chenkov Why not do it. Not Every Point In Every Game Has To Be Spent Perfectly and/or Wisely. The point at the end did you have fun with your 50 screaming testosterone filled newbs, then you have won, if you win the game that is just the icing on the cake.

Anpu42 wrote:And I might Roll nothing but "1s"
His Deep Stike may Put him off the Table
I might win the 1st turn of Close Combat

I thought this was about Conscripts, not What is better than conscripts.

If I already have Creed/Kell on the board and Chenkov Why not do it. Not Every Point In Every Game Has To Be Spent Perfectly and/or Wisely. The point at the end did you have fun with your 50 screaming testosterone filled newbs, then you have won, if you win the game that is just the icing on the cake.

What he said. I'll take playing for fun and testing my own tactics on the board rather than what looks good on paper. To each their own on how they play be it fun, competitively, or straight up hilarity. However, I could not agree more with the awesomeness of having waves of bodies hitting my enemy, only to see them brought down by such "weak" units.

I love seeing conscripts being used as a tarpit with Iron hand Strakken...

Nothing says death like 40-100 S4 I4 attacks... or running into conscripts with 2 attacks each.

It is cheap and causes more wounds than it should...

The clear use of conscripts is undoubtedly the tarpit one. I mean, how long is it going to take to move a blob of 50 dudes with a lord commissar next to a regimental standard off an objective? Conscripts are definitely a neat way of taking objectives and then holding them against a surprising amount of baddie-ness.

Given that they can't take weapons upgrades, the only way of making them actually useful is to pile on a silly amount of points worth of special characters. I mean, why spend 405 pts. on Creed+Kell, and straken, and chenkov, and SITNW, before even buying your first conscript when that many points put into artillery is clearly going to be effective? I mean, sure, if you've already foolishly spent those 400 points, then why not get some conscripts, but it would be a bad idea to encourage spending so many points for such a dubious unit.

That and SITNW has one purpose: to hold onto your objective in a capture and control mission. This only reiterates the purpose of conscripts as objective-takers.

You got that backwards you are not spensing all of that for the Cosnscripts are the extra 250 points to take you 1750 force to 2,000

TheKaptin wrote:

Anpu42 wrote:And I might Roll nothing but "1s"
His Deep Stike may Put him off the Table
I might win the 1st turn of Close Combat

I thought this was about Conscripts, not What is better than conscripts.

If I already have Creed/Kell on the board and Chenkov Why not do it. Not Every Point In Every Game Has To Be Spent Perfectly and/or Wisely. The point at the end did you have fun with your 50 screaming testosterone filled newbs, then you have won, if you win the game that is just the icing on the cake.

What he said. I'll take playing for fun and testing my own tactics on the board rather than what looks good on paper. To each their own on how they play be it fun, competitively, or straight up hilarity. However, I could not agree more with the awesomeness of having waves of bodies hitting my enemy, only to see them brought down by such "weak" units.

I dont care if their deamons I'm not messing up on my first day!!!

50 conscripts+ lord commissar= 270 points

50 guardsmen+commissar unit upgrade: 285 points.

The Lord Commissar has one bonus of being able to increase the LD of other units in a 6" radius, which can be handy. He has a big weakness in that he is an IC, and so he can die easily in CC, making the tarpit ability of the conscripts of limited usefulness.

The regular ol' Guardsmen with a commissar will almost never lose their stubborn rule unless the guard player wants them to, and they have better stats.

willydstyle wrote:50 conscripts+ lord commissar= 270 points

50 guardsmen+commissar unit upgrade: 285 points.

The Lord Commissar has one bonus of being able to increase the LD of other units in a 6" radius, which can be handy. He has a big weakness in that he is an IC, and so he can die easily in CC, making the tarpit ability of the conscripts of limited usefulness.

The regular ol' Guardsmen with a commissar will almost never lose their stubborn rule unless the guard player wants them to, and they have better stats.

And he takes up a HQ slot.

Conscripts are a HUGE HUGE waste of points, especially with first rank second rank. 150 lasgun shots at BS2 turns into 50 hits at S3 (say against other guardsmen at T3), is 25 wounds, that turns into 17 unsaved wounds. Yea, that's right. You just wasted a TON of points making that squad, and then putting commissars or other heros into your list to make them be able to waste an order that isn't worth taking, ever.

If you want cannon fodder, take regular infantry. They are 1 pt more expensive, and you can give them heavy and special weapons so they don't suck so bad before they get killed. Also they have BS3 which sucks, but def not as bad as BS2. You can blob 50 man regular infantry squads too, and don't have to waste huge numbers of points to just sit a single commissar in their ranks, or give them a vox.

Also send in the next wave is terrible too. Why do you think bringing in a squad from your table edge is going to help? You have 6 turns in a game, the conscripts die on like turn 2 or 3... and you spend the next 2 turns trying to get the new squad of conscripts to the front lines, because they have to walk there... And you spend a TON of points on a commander who's only really cool ability is allowing you to spend EVEN MORE points on an ability that sucks, on infantry that sucks worse.

Conscripts are a no go... just take regular infantry.

Bring in the next wave is useful in about 2/3 of anyone;s games as they rely on a troop choice taking an objective...

If you have bring in the next wave, I assume that you would put the objective somewhere your guys can reach... (Your table edge...)

The Idea can also be to tarpit the enemy with as few points as possible or give yourself a screen for as few points as possible...

Everything in the guard army has a specialty, Ratlings hunt TMC, Veterans hit their target, Guardsman saturate with lots of fire, Conscripts are good at taking up space, time and dying when charged.

Honestly, I think that the gigantic blob of conscripts has been outdone by the Combined squads rule, but they can still be usefull. One effect that is seldom taken into account is the psycological effect of, OMG a huge wave of 50+ men is running at me! The new to mildly experenced player's first reaction is BRING IT DOWN! NOW!!! This can be used to your advantage, marching them up in as menacing fashion as possible, and watch as the enemy fires half his army's firepower into a single unit two turns in a row, then just send in the next wave and capture any objectives near your own board edge. Personally, like I said, I "promoted" all my conscripts to normal G-men when 5th rolled along, because not having flamers sucks.

P.S. Hey Ailaros, nice to see you on Dakka!

What do you guys use for models? Regular IG guys?

If i used them, i'd make some Beastmen similar to whitedragon"s penial troops found here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/273291.page#1244419

that or like the Cadian Whiteshields. like regular troops with white stripes down the middle of the helmet.

I agree, those beastman are nice. (light bulb/ideas)

Hmmm with enough of them you could take bubble wrap to a whole new level...

Cheers,
~Volkan

I believe you are looking at the poor Whiteshields too tactically, they are made to feed the meatgrinder until it grinds no more.

Buy them in medium sized groups (50 is waaaay too many) and send em in against those melee units heading you way, if it goes according to plan they will all die and have the enemy all weak to another round of the Imperium's holy flashlight barrage.

Also, 40 or so Conscripts can make a killer tarpit for high strenght low attack number units.

oh, also, consider that a 6 ft wide table is 72" wide, and if you bring 50, you can almost cover the total width of the table in close order drill. If you put out a huge screen, everything in your army gets a 4+ cover save. 200 points may be a lot, but if it halves the rest of your casualties if you don't get first turn, it's not too bad. As well, it's going to be easy to keep them within range of a regimental standard, so you might be able to milk 2 turns of 4+ cover for most of your army.

Sure, it all collapses after the first assault, but still, if you don't expect more than a few turns of human shield and you are willing to put out some points, it's not that bad of a tactic.

"You see Killbots have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness I sent wave after wave of my own men at them, until they reached their limit and shut down."

Volkan wrote:"You see Killbots have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness I sent wave after wave of my own men at them, until they reached their limit and shut down."

I was thinking renaming Chenkov, Zap and paint the whole armu in doop colors

TheKaptin wrote:

Anpu42 wrote:And I might Roll nothing but "1s"
His Deep Stike may Put him off the Table
I might win the 1st turn of Close Combat

I thought this was about Conscripts, not What is better than conscripts.

If I already have Creed/Kell on the board and Chenkov Why not do it. Not Every Point In Every Game Has To Be Spent Perfectly and/or Wisely. The point at the end did you have fun with your 50 screaming testosterone filled newbs, then you have won, if you win the game that is just the icing on the cake.

What he said. I'll take playing for fun and testing my own tactics on the board rather than what looks good on paper. To each their own on how they play be it fun, competitively, or straight up hilarity. However, I could not agree more with the awesomeness of having waves of bodies hitting my enemy, only to see them brought down by such "weak" units.

Well, seeing as this is the '40k Tactics' forum, I decided to give my opinion on what would be tactically effective. Personally, I believe it's just as grimdark, WWI-era suicide to throw guardsmen at the enemy as to throw conscripts, and if you use the guardsmen, properly equipped, you stand a better chance of winning. Since WH40k isn't a very well-balanced game, it's perfectly valid to state that one unit isn't very good compared to the competition. In this case, I just don't get your objection - if you use those kind of human wave tactics, and your own men get killed off in bucketloads, what does it matter if they're classed as conscripts or guardsmen?

I'll take the cholesterol-laden futuristic mass slaughter with a wholesome side of playing to win, please.