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I decided to go with this model (7-1 result in the poll above ) and just purchased it! I'll also need to purchase some bases, which I'll put some twigs/bits of wood on, paint, and use as stand-ins for the dryads, treekin, and treeman that Ceolmund creates.

I'm going to keep this first post updated with the most current rules, so people don't have to scan through the entire thread. Here they are below!



Ceolmund- 1100 points
Mv_Ws_Bs_St_To_Wo_In_At_Ld
5___-__-__7__7__10__1__-__10
2+ Scaly Skin, Forest Spirit, Flammable, Terror, Treesinging (x3), Extra Large Target (+2 to shooting modifiers, visible over Large Targets)
Requires a Lord and 2 Rare slots.

Ancient beyond Days- Ceolmund's seed was planted by the Old Ones, before the invasion of chaos into the world. As such, the young magic of the current age has no more effect on his time-scarred bark than the wind passing through his branches. He has MR(2), and generates 2 Dispel Dice. Also, he has aged to such a degree that the giant stump that remains his body is nearly petrified. Ceolmund may never march, but any wound that would normally be multiplied into d6 wounds, causes d3 wounds instead. Any wound that would multiply into d3 wounds, instead causes a single wound. Coelmund is also immune to Killing Blow.

Father of the Forest- Ceolmund's powers are linked to the woods around him, and as they have retreated and shrunk, so has his body begun to decay. At the start of the Remaining Moves phase, measure to see if Ceolmund is within 12" of a forest. If he is not, he immediately suffers d3 wounds with no saves of any kind allowed.
As the forest gifts Ceolmund with continued life and breath, Ceolmund in turn breathes life back into it. If, at the start of the Remaining Moves phase, Ceolmund is within 12" of a forest, roll on the following table (roll separately for each forest within 12" at the start of the turn). As they are appearing during the Remaining Moves phase, each unit may move normally, but may not charge on the turn they arrive.

1- The forest begins to respond to Ceolmund's presence, parting before him while moving to ensnare his enemies, but fails to awaken fully. The forest is immediately affected in a manner identical to the "Tree Singing" spell.
2-3- Ceolmund's breath brings the forest undergrowth suddenly to life. Place a unit of 2d6 dryads within the forest.
4-5- Even the dead logs and branches on the forest floor are awoken by Ceolmund's presence. Place a unit of d3 treekin within the forest.
6- The trees themselves respond to Ceolmund, ripping roots from the ground and swinging branches from the air, ready to stand guard before him. Place a treeman within the forest.

Wisdom of the World- Ceolmund has seen wonders and horrors beyond the records of the most ancient texts, and all of it plays clearly before his mind's eye in memory. Through all of it, he probes for answers to the decline of his children forests, searching for clues lost to history in ages gone by. He has passed far beyond the point of considering a single battle, let alone fighting in one himself. Ceolmund may never attack, but any model in base contact suffers -1 attack, as even the most relentless warriors pause in curiosity at his refusal to defend himself. As he does not acknowledge the threat his attackers pose, no matter how fierce, he is Unbreakable.

Devoted Children- Though Ceolmund will not fight of his own accord, the dryads of the forest are drawn to his presence, and will fight to the death rather than let him be harmed. A cloud of dryads follows him wherever he goes, clearing away any perceived enemy with a fury of lashing branches. At the beginning of each round of combat, roll 2d6 to determine how many dryads will attack. These attacks may be allocated freely to any model or models that would normally be targettable, as the dryads viciously seek out the greatest threat. If Ceolmund is challenged, all of the attacks must be directed to the challenger. The enemy may direct attacks against the dryads for the purposes of combat resolution (or other benefits), but the dryads' return attacks are never reduced- any dryad struck down is immediately replaced by several more, furious to defend their ancient forebear.

Irreplacable Loss- If Ceolmund were to perish, the very essence of the life of the forest spirits will begin to fade. If Ceolmund dies, every model with the "forest spirit" special rule will fight at -1 WS, -1 Str, and -1 To for the rest of the game.

I think model two is the best, the face looks older and wiser, as "The Father of the Forest" should be.

I've seen a lot of ents used as treemen for WFB, so I wouldn't think 9" would be too tall. I like the fact that model one looks like he could move around a little easier, but I think I am kind of partial to model 2 myself.

From measuring the pics (so very, very rough) I think the width of the trunk at the "face" part of model 2 is 3". The width of the trunk for model 1 is 2.1", but with such a wide "wingspan" for lack of a better word, I think it might actually feel more out of scale than the others.

(Keep convincing me for model 2, guys . Great job so far )

They're definitely beefy!

Some of the background for the tree- it used to be of an incredible height, but as the boundaries of the forest have shrunk, its many branches have fallen off, as the forest was like an extension of its own body, leaving it now almost a great, gnarled stump. Whereas (insert cool name here) used to give life to all the forest, and draw in life in return, now he can only empower and gain strength from the woods closest to himself. If he is within 6" of a wood, dryads will form from the undergrowth, and on a certain roll, spirits will inhabit the fallen boughs and branches to form mighty treekin.

I would definitely have dryad models standing on the "candle" positions, to represent this.

More to come! (And in a cooler, more rule-like fashion, like the Tergor and Dwarf Titan threads)

Gonna have to get rid of the candles or the Dryads won't like it!

Voted 2 which seems the best overall imho

Here are the beginning of some rules:

Ceolmund- 1000 points?
Stats (still to come)
2+ Scaly Skin
Large Target
Forest Spirit (Same as standard rules- 5+ Ward save, not usable against magical attacks, immune to psychology)
10 wounds? Toughness 7?

Ancient beyond Days- Ceolmund's seed was planted by the Old Ones, before the invasion of chaos into the world. As such, the young magic of the current age has no more effect on his time-scarred bark than the wind passing through his branches. He has MR(2), and generates 2 Dispel Dice.

The Winter Comes- Ceolmund's powers are linked to the woods around him, and as they have retreated and shrunk, so has his body begun to decay. At the beginning of each friendly turn, measure to see if Ceolmund is within 12" of a forest. If he is not, he immediately suffers D3 wounds with no saves of any kind allowed.

Father of the Forest- As the forest gifts Ceolmund with continued life and breath, Ceolmund in turn breathes life back into it. If at the beginning of a friendly turn, Ceolmund is within 12" of a forest, roll on the following table and apply the results immediately to all forests within 12".

1- The forests begin to respond to Ceolmund's presence, parting before him while moving to ensnare his enemies, but fail to awaken fully. The forest may immediately be moved in a manner identical to the "Tree Singing" spell.
2-3- Ceolmund's breathe brings the forest undergrowth suddenly to life. Place a unit of 2d6 dryads within the forest.
4-5- Even the dead logs and branches on the forest floor are awoken to fight for the forest. Place a unit of d3 treekin within the forest.
6- The trees themselves respond to Ceolmund, ripping roots from the ground and branches from the air, ready to stand guard before him. Place a treeman within the forest.

Wisdom of the World- Ceolmund has seen wonders and horrors beyond the records of the most ancient texts, and all of it plays clearly before his mind's eye in memory. Through all of it, he probes for answers to the decline of his children forests, searching for clues lost to history in ages gone by. He has passed far beyond the point of considering a single battle, let alone fighting in one himself. Ceolmund may never attack, but any model wishing to strike him suffers -1 attack. He is also unbreakable.

Devoted Children- Though Ceolmund will not fight of his own accord, the dryads of the forest are drawn to his presence, and will fight to the death rather than let him be harmed. A cloud of dryads follows him wherever he goes, clearing away any perceived enemy with a fury of lashing branches. Each model in base contact with Ceolmund may be attacked as if by 3 dryads. However, all models must direct their attacks at Ceolmund himself, as any dryad struck down is immediately replaced by several more, furious to defend their ancient forebear.

Irreplacable Loss- If Ceolmund were to perish, the very essence of the life of the forest spirits will begin to fade. If Ceolmund dies, every model with the "forest spirit" special rule will fight at -1 WS, -1 Str, and -1 To for the rest of the game.

I'll try to add the stats tomorrow, and tweak the names of the rules, etc. I think he should have the standard forest spirit ward save (it's what Orion has). I like him not attacking on his own, but having the dryads do it for him. Thoughts?

I don't know, really. He is a very unique and peculiar idea.

Seem's empire would take him out in one round of shooting with cannons, needs something like the D6 wounds into D3 wounds, and D3 into 1 wound special rule, or a better ward save

Some really nice ideas- love the devoted children
Wish I had more experience to comment on the effects of game play but I like the imagery conjoured by te rules

Gonna have to scratch Ceolmund for my daughter's Wood Elves now DOH!
something else for the to do list

look forward to the stats

Thanks

I think I can combine "The Winter Comes" into the "Father of the Forest" rule, so that he doesn't have too many.

Good idea Karon, I think I will add that under "Ancient Beyond Days". I was going to count on the high toughness and high number of wounds to protect him; it just doesn't seem right for him to have a different ward save from the rest of the forest spirits. But it would certainly put a crimp in things for him to take d6 wounds at once...

For Stat's, here's a Treeman Ancient:

Mv_Ws_Bs_St_To_Wo_In_At_Ld
5___5__-__6__6__6___2_5__9

And here's Orion:

Mv_Ws_Bs_St_To_Wo_In_At_Ld
9___8__5__5__5__6___9_6__10

In addition to the changes mentioned above, here's some possible stats:

Mv_Ws_Bs_St_To_Wo_In_At_Ld
5___-__-__-__7__10__-__-__10

What do you think? Should he have less movement? Less wounds? And I will make the change about weapons causing d6 wounds only causing d3, and d3 only causing 1, as Karon suggested . Also, is having the equivalent of 3 dryads attacking each model in btb too much, as I have it now? If he gets charged by a block, that's a lot of attacks! (Since dryads have 2 each, that'd be 6 per model touching him...!)

I like having the heap of wounds in addition to the forest spirit ward save. I agree that part of the Titan rule should be the d6 to d3, etc.

Having 6 attacks back against EVERY model touching him is pretty crazy, but the more I think about it the more fair I think it is. I also think that you should reword the last part of Devoted Children, requiring that models strike at Ceolmund because the Drayds would simply be replaced. Creatures like Minotaurs with Blood Greed and others with similar effects bestowed upon winning combat would rather spend a turn or two hacking away at the dryads just to win combat, even if they don't stop more Dryads from popping.

Good idea! I can also change the wording to "2d6 dryads will attack, allocated freely between models in base-to-base" but if you roll a 12, it's almost the same... still, on average, it'd make him less a lawn mower against large infantry blocks... and also give him a few more attacks in a challenge, which would be nice.

Ceolmund is intentionally not able to take on the enemy's heavy hitter- he needs to be protected, but if you do so, he can generate a new army almost by himself (if he has 2 forests nearby... and since woodies get to place a free one, that shouldn't be hard).

Other things- he'll have bound level 3 treesinging like a treeman ancient (can cast 3 times, since an ancient can cast it twice) and is an "extra large target" (can be seen over treeman). I'd like to keep him reasonable enough to cost at 1000 points... is this about right so far?

I really like what you have done RiTides.

Is he flammable? I think he would have the wisdom and presence to know where everything is around him, so he would have 360 LOS and wouldn't be able to be flank or rear charged. I think I would even make him know all the spells from the WE lore and be a level 4 mage. So are you thinking his stats would be something like this;

M_Ws_Bs_S_T_W_I_A_Ld
5__5__-__7_7_10_2_*_10

Good point- yes, he'll definitely be flammable (just like a treeman is). I don't think he needs to count as a mage, since the bound treesinging spells are pretty good (when people try to dispel with 1 dice, at least 1 will usually get through, and if they use 2 dice, they won't have dice for anything else) and they'll what he'll need, anyway, to keep a forest nearby.

Since he's unbreakable, it doesn't really matter if he gets charged in the flank/rear... and also, I don't think he's that spritely anymore (being older than dirt) so I don't think he should get the 360 LOS.

I'll make a new post with all the changes/updates. I also don't want to make him too good, since I'd like to have my opponent let me use him, and the closest wood elf model in cost to consider (Orion) is not all that powerful.

I'm thinking his stats would be very similar to what you posted, but I left the WS, St, and I spots blank, since he can't attack himself. Otherwise it's identical to what you posted . But maybe he would need stats for St and I, since some magic items or spells might call for a strength/initiative test? Or will he be exempt with a "-" stat? I'm thinking he'll probably need them... and if so, I think St 7 sounds right, but I'd make him I 1 (since that's what a treeman is). Good stuff

Yea I just put those stats there for possible spell implications and just pulled the 2 for I from the treeman ancient you had posted there. I like how you base it on other characters already created.

I wasn't thinking the "old man in the tree" was spinning around to face in every direction. More like his wisdom allows him to know where everything is or the ground itself tells him where his enemies are (he feels them coming) and his facial image will just reappear where it is needed.

I am just wondering why an enemy would focus on attacking him. Other than a giant killer bonus if there is one. Why not just stay back and kill the units he may create? They are weaker than him and probably easier to destroy especially in a legends battle. At least that is my thought process.

Go with two tree bro!! Not to include I love his rules, might have to find something useful that can act as him for my woodies!!

Below I've incorporated a lot of the changes sugested above. Is this fair for the point value? I think he is powerful enough for my tastes, but I want to make sure he isn't undercosted. He would basically be a "tree factory", and could easily produce as many new units as his current point value, if he lives through the game and is positioned near 2 forests (one of which can be placed for free by the wood elf player). I'm upping the cost to 1100... sound about right?

Boogeyman- you're right about Treeman Ancients being I2! I was confused... but I think Ceolmund's age means he shouldn't be higher than 1.

Ceolmund- 1100 points
Mv_Ws_Bs_St_To_Wo_In_At_Ld
5___-__-__7__7__10__1__-__10
2+ Scaly Skin, Forest Spirit, Flammable, Terror, Treesinging (x3), Extra Large Target (+2 to shooting modifiers, always visible above intervening models or terrain)
Requires a Lord and 2 Rare slots.

Ancient beyond Days- Ceolmund's seed was planted by the Old Ones, before the invasion of chaos into the world. As such, the young magic of the current age has no more effect on his time-scarred bark than the wind passing through his branches. He has MR(2), and generates 2 Dispel Dice. Also, he has aged to such a degree that the giant stump that remains his body is nearly petrified. Ceolmund may never march, but any wound that would normally be multiplied into d6 wounds, causes d3 wounds instead. Any wound that would multiply into d3 wounds, instead causes a single wound. Coelmund is also immune to Killing Blow.

Father of the Forest- Ceolmund's powers are linked to the woods around him, and as they have retreated and shrunk, so has his body begun to decay. At the beginning of each friendly turn, measure to see if Ceolmund is within 12" of a forest. If he is not, he immediately suffers d3 wounds with no saves of any kind allowed.
As the forest gifts Ceolmund with continued life and breath, Ceolmund in turn breathes life back into it. If at the beginning of a friendly turn, Ceolmund is within 12" of a forest, roll on the following table and apply the results immediately (roll separately for each forest within 12" at the start of the turn). Each unit placed is treated exactly like a unit returning from "pursuit off the table" (and so may not march or declare charges).

1- The forest begins to respond to Ceolmund's presence, parting before him while moving to ensnare his enemies, but fails to awaken fully. The forest is immediately affected in a manner identical to the "Tree Singing" spell.
2-3- Ceolmund's breath brings the forest undergrowth suddenly to life. Place a unit of 2d6 dryads within the forest.
4-5- Even the dead logs and branches on the forest floor are awoken by Ceolmund's presence. Place a unit of d3 treekin within the forest.
6- The trees themselves respond to Ceolmund, ripping roots from the ground and swinging branches from the air, ready to stand guard before him. Place a treeman within the forest.

Wisdom of the World- Ceolmund has seen wonders and horrors beyond the records of the most ancient texts, and all of it plays clearly before his mind's eye in memory. Through all of it, he probes for answers to the decline of his children forests, searching for clues lost to history in ages gone by. He has passed far beyond the point of considering a single battle, let alone fighting in one himself. Ceolmund may never attack, but any model in base contact suffers -1 attack, as even the most relentless warriors pause in curiosity at his refusal to defend himself. As he does not acknowledge the threat his attackers pose, no matter how fierce, he is Unbreakable.

Devoted Children- Though Ceolmund will not fight of his own accord, the dryads of the forest are drawn to his presence, and will fight to the death rather than let him be harmed. A cloud of dryads follows him wherever he goes, clearing away any perceived enemy with a fury of lashing branches. At the beginning of each round of combat, roll 2d6 to determine how many dryads will attack. These attacks may be allocated freely to any model or models that would normally be targettable, as the dryads viciously seek out the greatest threat. If Ceolmund is challenged, all of the attacks must be directed to the challenger. The enemy may direct attacks against the dryads for the purposes of combat resolution (or other benefits), but the dryads' return attacks are never reduced- any dryad struck down is immediately replaced by several more, furious to defend their ancient forebear.

Irreplacable Loss- If Ceolmund were to perish, the very essence of the life of the forest spirits will begin to fade. If Ceolmund dies, every model with the "forest spirit" special rule will fight at -1 WS, -1 Str, and -1 To for the rest of the game.

Any thoughts on the edited rules? They're a little long-winded, but I wanted to cover all the bases...

And the overall cost of the beastie? If he's only near one wood, it's going to be hard to make him worth his point, but if he's near two... $$$

I like him. I think he may even be a little too expensive. Do you think he is worth 3 ancients? I just see a WE player planting him behind his tree and hopefully next to another one on the board and raising trees all around himself.

I am thinking that these legendary creatures and constructs will just use up their own slots now. Characters, core, special, rare, and legends. They can only be used in legendary battles and one for every 5k. Or something like that.

He seems extremely thematic for the Wood Elves. However he also seems to be odd... Like a terrain feature rather than a legendary creature... Alright I know thats a fair pun with him being a Treeman. Also Like how you dropped the melee combat off him, as that makes him a dedicated factory unit which is appropriate I think to him being too old to fight.

I know I did the opposite of what I said with the Corpse Golem but I think its balanced with the Corpse Golem primarily boosting zombies which are probably the worst infantry in the game.

Thank you . What about these 3 changes?

-Treat units created via "Father of the Forest" exactly as a unit that is returning from pursuit off the table (i.e., may not charge or march, but may move normally).

-"Extra large target" means that he is always visible over any intervening terrain and smaller models (even forests).

-Change his movement to M3, or leave it as-is, but say that he may never march.

What do you guys think?

I don't believe that a Tree as ancient as this would ever move anywhere very fast. So I think you should say he may never march.

Odd idea here, but what if he was able to teleport between woods? Say if he is in cover of one wood, he can teleport (but not say create units that turn) to any other wood/forest/tree terrain within a given range and LOS?

Or can simply teleport to the nearest wood if he is forced into combat? Say instead of breaking or something he teleports to the nearest tree terrain instead of falling back? Ceolmund isn't an avalanche of doom like the Golem or the hydras, he's a factory summoner, so sensible a character like this would have a method of escaping the fire and axes?

I like all your ideas there RiTides. I would probably side with the no marching either and just leave his movement at 5 or so. Maybe you can even roll his movement like a tree singing spell with a +1 or 2 to it.

I am not sure he would be able to teleport his mass across the board to another forest, but I kind of like the idea that once per game he might be able to teleport a friendly unit from one forest to another.

Okay, no marching it is, then!

I love the idea of teleporting from forest to forest, but Drycha specializes in that, so I don't think I'll include it for Ceolmund. I'm tempted to make him take a Lord and a Rare slots, rather than 2 Lord slots, since it would make it easier for me to take him. Or perhaps a Lord and 2 Rare slots? My closest reference is Orion, who requires a Lord and a hero slot.

Edit: I've included the changes in latest post with his rules above . After the poll ends I'm going to update the first thread with the latest rules, so that the most recent version doesn't get lost in the shuffle.

I've just purchsed the model I'm going to use as Ceolmund! Now I need to purchase some bases to use for the units he creates.

I'm also going to keep the first post in the thread updated with the most current rules, so that people don't have to scan through the whole thread to find them

I've also purchased the bases now, so everything I need to playtest this puppy are in the mail and on the way!!

Two changes:

1) I think I'm going to have "Father of the Forest" take place in the remaining moves part of the movement phase, just as Drycha's ability takes place. This will allow the units to march, but not charge. Otherwise, I think there will be a log jam of units on the table!

2) I don't think "Extra Large Targets" should be visible over forests, after all. That just goes against the shooting mechanics for everything else... it will still add +2 to shooting modifiers, and make Ceolmund visible over large targets, but not over forests.

log jam of units on the table

Yikes! Don't let your Treemen and Dryads hear you say that - they might get worried about being turned into jelly!

Lol, I didn't even mean it as a pun . Good call!

Ceolmund is here!! I'm very pleased with the model, although it's gigantic... I'll take a pic of him, and perhaps post a P&M blog to show my progress in making the bases that will go with him (to represent the dryads, treekin, and treemen that he creates).

Cheers guys,
RiTides

Yay for giant tree-thing! Oh, and if in his old age he feels the need for a younger, sexy girlfriend, Raging Heroes has you covered: Syl-Iriah, Spirit of the Woods - Legendary version.



I'll toss up some rules for her various versions later today or tomorrow.

Wow, that's an intense model! Is her lower portion a tree/trunk/branch? Very cool...