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http://www.phoenixrally.com

I am against the actual form of Arizona SB1070 in which there will be civil rights violations and scenes that harken back to the days of colored chain gangs and prisons brimming with people who are not WASPS or racially construed to be "white."

That being said, I do not think I could go out and rally for the cause of supporting this law, as I understand where the Arizona legislators are coming from, but also understand they passed this law to appease some of their more conservative constituents. It is a hollow shell that deflects the argument of stricter federal enforcement of the border and places the burden on a state. Most likely, the law will be shot down in court as it goes beyond a state's ability to enact immigration law (as well as violate civil liberties, ect. ect. ect.).

For those who will rally, I hope you believe in what you will be defending, as there are equally spirited people on the other side of the picket fence waiting for you.

Breaking the law is breaking the law, plain and simple. Enforcement of said laws (or lack thereof) is a matter of the States and Federal Government.

Since this law is redundant, we need to find someone who has the political cojones to actually seal the border. No amnesty.

My ancestors came over in the 1830's and assimilated, they didn't expect to be coddled to their native tounges (Danish, Dutch and German), have billingual schooling or signs everywhere.

It sucks for the people who have been in the country a long time, but, the law is the law. I don't care how long you have been here. Time to go through the process like many millions before you.

If I had the funds I'd go to it.

Stormrider wrote:Breaking the law is breaking the law, plain and simple. Enforcement of said laws (or lack thereof) is a matter of the States and Federal Government.

Since this law is redundant, we need to find someone who has the political cojones to actually seal the border. No amnesty.

My ancestors came over in the 1830's and assimilated, they didn't expect to be coddled to their native tounges (Danish, Dutch and German), have billingual schooling or signs everywhere.

It sucks for the people who have been in the country a long time, but, the law is the law. I don't care how long you have been here. Time to go through the process like many millions before you.

Your ancestors were lucky, as they did not have to endure immigration law sending them back. They were about 60-80 years early for that.

To be fair though, if their story is like other immigrant stories from around that time, they came in on boats and worked hard and had to endure the short end of the stick in terms of what the American dream initially offered them. Since they appear to of been Prodestant, they didn't have the Catholic stigmata that the Irish, Italians, ect. had when they came to America. They also came before America truly industrialized and probably faired well by moving off to regions like Ohio, Illinois, or Pennslyvania (Appalachian Mountains or thereabouts) where there were large populations of Germans and Central Europeans already there. If they were farmers, they enjoyed a relatively quiet existance until the Civil War, by which time I am sure a few of your ancestors contributed to the cause at some point. I doubt they have to contend with horrible factory conditions, unless you count the slums of living in expanding cities such as New York, where they were herded into racial-based neighborhoods and lived a meager existance until they earned their way into a higher standing.

Within 2 generations, your family would of been fully integrated with America, indistinguishable from the others who came before them. Unfortunately, Latin Americans do not share the blessings your family had. We are talking about people who look different from the average American and almost automatically assumed to be here with some suspicion because of the prevelance of immigration laws that say there is a good chance they should not belong here.

This law does indeed single out Latino immigrants and sons and daughters of immigrants in Arizona. It is a shame, but because of the sharp divide of skin color, community, and a sense of belonging, the law as enacted cannot be foolproof against profiling.

I stress for the law to be changed, or for the federal government to enact tougher stances against illegal border crossings. Arizona was forced into this law because of the intolerance of Americans against illegal immigrants, regardless of who they are or why they are here.

I do understand they broke the law to get here and against the rule of law that is wrong, but SB1070 is not the way to remove them.

Stormrider wrote:Breaking the law is breaking the law, plain and simple. Enforcement of said laws (or lack thereof) is a matter of the States and Federal Government.

Since this law is redundant, we need to find someone who has the political cojones to actually seal the border. No amnesty.

My ancestors came over in the 1830's and assimilated, they didn't expect to be coddled to their native tounges (Danish, Dutch and German), have billingual schooling or signs everywhere.

It sucks for the people who have been in the country a long time, but, the law is the law. I don't care how long you have been here. Time to go through the process like many millions before you.

IN arizona it is illegal is to have a bilingual class, the teachers are only allowed to speak english.

That's awsome because where I am the inner city schools are talking about mandating classes in Ebonics for the teachers, they would have to attend in the summer I think. They have also rewritten some of the state exams so that those students would recognise the names of the actors (which if they paid attention to the parents defeats the purpose of them being named so strange).

All of this crap and IT'S NOT EVEN A REAL LANGUAGE!!!

Yes it is.

youbedead wrote:

Stormrider wrote:Breaking the law is breaking the law, plain and simple. Enforcement of said laws (or lack thereof) is a matter of the States and Federal Government.

Since this law is redundant, we need to find someone who has the political cojones to actually seal the border. No amnesty.

My ancestors came over in the 1830's and assimilated, they didn't expect to be coddled to their native tounges (Danish, Dutch and German), have billingual schooling or signs everywhere.

It sucks for the people who have been in the country a long time, but, the law is the law. I don't care how long you have been here. Time to go through the process like many millions before you.

IN arizona it is illegal is to have a bilingual class, the teachers are only allowed to speak english.

Good, finally a state with even more balls than I thought.

Somethging interesting popoed into my head, where in the SB1070 does it say "Stop all people who look like Mexicans (or Hondurans, Ecuadorians, etc.)"?

It's a line in people heads that is a figment of their imagination.

Ebonics THINKS it's a real language. It's only real because T-Pain and Flo-Rida and all other rappers can't speak PROPER English.

So, it's illegal to teach language classes or just for the teacher to speak 2 languages for say like math or English (oh gak) class?

Stormrider wrote:My ancestors came over in the 1830's and assimilated, they didn't expect to be coddled to their native tounges (Danish, Dutch and German), have billingual schooling or signs everywhere.

They didn't what now?

Dutch was the primary language of the Ramapo Valley in New Jersey and Little Chute Wisconsin into the early 20th century - generations after settlement. Countless places have names originating in Dutch - Rhode Island is derived from Dutch, meaning Red Island.

Germans began arriving in the 17th century, lived in German communities and spoke German in their schools. It wasn't until the 1880s that schools were mostly bi-lingual. Laws were passed to stop German being the dominant language in schools. It wasn't until WWI when German gathered a negative connotation that German speaking communities began to speak predominantly English.

There are still many families that speak Danish, Dutch and German as their primary language in the home.

The idea that these groups arrived into an established nation full of English speakers is ridiculous. The US has a long history of being a nation of many languages.


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Fateweaver wrote:It's a line in people heads that is a figment of their imagination.

Ebonics THINKS it's a real language. It's only real because T-Pain and Flo-Rida and all other rappers can't speak PROPER English.

And English is just an obscure variant of German.


And in Arizona it won't just a problem if you teach in another language, you can be fired if you have a heavy accent. Seriously.

This is after spending immense time and resources employing teachers with bilingual abilities so that kids with poor English won't be left behind, now those teachers will be sacked for having an accent.

I am highly amused by Fateweaver's invocation of English propriety.

Only 3-4 posters on this board speak 'proper' English.

dogma wrote:I am highly amused by Fateweaver's invocation of English propriety.

Only 3-4 posters on this board speak 'proper' English.

It can’t be as funny as the idea of Dutch and German migrants arriving here in the 1830s and fitting and learning English like the locals.

It isn't, but I felt you dealt with that nicely.

sebster wrote:

dogma wrote:I am highly amused by Fateweaver's invocation of English propriety.

Only 3-4 posters on this board speak 'proper' English.

It can’t be as funny as the idea of Dutch and German migrants arriving here in the 1830s and fitting and learning English like the locals.

Thats not quite accurate. It depends on region. French was repressed by English speakers in Louisiana. In contrast Germans and Czechs coming into Texas tended to congregate in wilderness areas, and spoke native langauges but converted to English quickly on the whole. They needed it as English was the language for trade.
in other areas Spanish remained common.


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WarOne wrote:I am against the actual form of Arizona SB1070 in which there will be civil rights violations and scenes that harken back to the days of colored chain gangs and prisons brimming with people who are not WASPS or racially construed to be "white."

That being said, I do not think I could go out and rally for the cause of supporting this law, as I understand where the Arizona legislators are coming from, but also understand they passed this law to appease some of their more conservative constituents. It is a hollow shell that deflects the argument of stricter federal enforcement of the border and places the burden on a state. Most likely, the law will be shot down in court as it goes beyond a state's ability to enact immigration law (as well as violate civil liberties, ect. ect. ect.).

For those who will rally, I hope you believe in what you will be defending, as there are equally spirited people on the other side of the picket fence waiting for you.

then you must be against the California law and US Federal law that are effectively the same thing.

Fateweaver wrote:

Ebonics THINKS it's a real language. It's only real because T-Pain and Flo-Rida and all other rappers can't speak PROPER English.

Proper English is a hilarious idea. When was proper English spoken, and where? Chaucer enjoyed using quintuple negatives to emphasize how wrong something was. The idea that a double negative was wrong didn't come up until long after he was dead. At one point in time, it was the height of fashion to speak with a Cockney accent. You know, the 'allo guvnah!' accent. Then the dictionary was created with its pronunciation guide. Grammatical rules have been out of step with the practical applications of language since they were invented. To pretend otherwise is to seek a golden age where English was perfect.

English was formed by the constant invasion of England, and the bastardized mixture of the various conquerors' languages. There's nothing pure or noble about current English. We don't even use the traditional 'thee' or 'thou'. The way that we are speaking now will change as well. Every generation perverts the language in an act of rebellion that alters their speech patterns for the rest of their lives. It is from these altered speech patterns that the next generation will deviate, leading to a constant evolution of language. Proper English is English that can be understood by whomever you are speaking with. Every version of English is just another dialect. For an example, I humbly ask one of dakka's Irish, Scottish, Candian or British individuals to use some of your inscrutable jargon which shames us poor colonials. I know lorry, boot and lift, and know that knocking someone up in Britain is nowhere near as serious as it is in the USA, but I can't make a setence as difficult to understand (for an American) as a native-born speaker could.

You Americans don't speak English anyway. You have words like 'garbage', and 'subway', and 'sidewalk'. We have 'rubbish', 'The Underground', and 'pavements' respectively.
You also drive on the wrong side of the road.

The sooner you silly colonials cut this rebellion nonsense short and resume your rightful place in the Empire, the better.

To provide an example for Gitzbitah though, up in Newcastle, where some of my family originates, a common greeting is 'Ay-up!'. (pronounced:- a - up )

Point is, "rap" speak should not be it's own language.

Mouths of everyone work the same. It's not hard to learn to annunciate certain words the same as non-ebonics speaking people (or even spell them proper).

I wish there was a law against people with VERY heavy accents from working at financial institutions. Even after pressing "1" for English I still need a translator at times to pay a stupid bill. LOL.

In Boro we say "howee" for loads of things, like, "lets leave" or "lets start" or "yes please"

And dont even start on Geordies, they sound like Scottish people with a concussion.

Fateweaver wrote:Point is, "rap" speak should not be it's own language.

Mouths of everyone work the same. It's not hard to learn to annunciate certain words the same as non-ebonics speaking people (or even spell them proper).

I wish there was a law against people with VERY heavy accents from working at financial institutions. Even after pressing "1" for English I still need a translator at times to pay a stupid bill. LOL.

Actually, the word is 'enunciate.'
If you're going to bother about complain about other people's spelling then you should at least make an effort to be correct with your own.

lokilokust wrote:

Fateweaver wrote:Point is, "rap" speak should not be it's own language.

Mouths of everyone work the same. It's not hard to learn to annunciate certain words the same as non-ebonics speaking people (or even spell them proper).

I wish there was a law against people with VERY heavy accents from working at financial institutions. Even after pressing "1" for English I still need a translator at times to pay a stupid bill. LOL.

Actually, the word is 'enunciate.'
If you're going to bother about complain about other people's spelling then you should at least make an effort to be correct with your own.

If you're going to complain about other person's complaint concerning others' spelling then you should use proper grammar and syntax yourself.

Fateweaver and lokilokust has been taken ta skoo. what the feth sup now?

-courtesy of http://joel.net/ebonics/translator.asp.

I also highly recommend reading the BBC news via gizoogle.

Frazzled wrote:

lokilokust wrote:

Fateweaver wrote:Point is, "rap" speak should not be it's own language.

Mouths of everyone work the same. It's not hard to learn to annunciate certain words the same as non-ebonics speaking people (or even spell them proper).

I wish there was a law against people with VERY heavy accents from working at financial institutions. Even after pressing "1" for English I still need a translator at times to pay a stupid bill. LOL.

Actually, the word is 'enunciate.'
If you're going to bother about complain about other people's spelling then you should at least make an effort to be correct with your own.

If you're going to complain about other person's complaint concerning others' spelling then you should use proper grammar and syntax yourself.

Perhaps, but the crux of my complaint wasn't the actual facts of his spelling, but more the irony of the whole situation.

lokilokust wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

lokilokust wrote:

Fateweaver wrote:Point is, "rap" speak should not be it's own language.

Mouths of everyone work the same. It's not hard to learn to annunciate certain words the same as non-ebonics speaking people (or even spell them proper).

I wish there was a law against people with VERY heavy accents from working at financial institutions. Even after pressing "1" for English I still need a translator at times to pay a stupid bill. LOL.

Actually, the word is 'enunciate.'
If you're going to bother about complain about other people's spelling then you should at least make an effort to be correct with your own.

If you're going to complain about other person's complaint concerning others' spelling then you should use proper grammar and syntax yourself.

Perhaps, but the crux of my complaint wasn't the actual facts of his spelling, but more the irony of the whole situation.

ditto.


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This would be so awesome.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/05/19/arizona-official-threatens-cut-los-angeles-power-payback-boycott/

I actually don't support this law, at all, but I have no problem with Arizona reacting in that way... especially since i think that more cities need to focus on local power options (which, i suppose, is something best saved for another conversation.)

Yeah, let's see the LA mayor crawl on his knees to get power restored when it goes black and riots and looting begin.

So my spelling was off. My point still stands. Rap slang should not be a language unto itself. I listen to hip hop so fortunately can understand it but to me it sounds like a bunch of illiterates with gak in their mouths trying to speak.

Can't LA get its power from somewhere else? Haha

Fateweaver wrote: Rap slang should not be a language unto itself.

Its not. Its an English dialect tied to a specific subculture.

Blah blah blah.

Then the SUB-culture should learn to speak American English.

"You betta aks somebody, yo."

"Watchoo lookin' at, biatch?"

Sorry, sounds like illiterate gak eaters to me.

Ebonics is one of the most distinctly American dialects there is.

Additionally, I imagine that you associate it with ignorance because, in general, Ebonics is associated with poverty. There is no empirically 'stupid' quality to it.