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I have built my all-jumper list as an attempt to field a competitive all-comers force. I would appreciate any critique, criticism and/or suggestions for improvement.

HQ: Librarian w/ jump pack (lance & shield)
HQ: Librarian w/ jump pack (lance & shield)
Honor Guard w/ jump packs and 4 melta guns

E1: 3 Priests w/ jump packs

T1: 10 RAS (2 meltaguns, fist & infernus)
T2: 10 RAS (2 meltaguns, fist & infernus)
T3: 10 RAS (2 meltaguns, fist & infernus)

FA: VV w/ jump packs (pw sarge, Hammer & 3 meltabombs)
FA: VV w/ jump packs (pw sarge, Hammer & 3 meltabombs)

Not sure if this is an all-comers list.
Fast moving armies like mech Eldar or horde Orks could be a problem.

wuestenfux wrote:Not sure if this is an all-comers list.
Fast moving armies like mech Eldar or horde Orks could be a problem.

What tweaks would you suggest?

DooDoo wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:Not sure if this is an all-comers list.
Fast moving armies like mech Eldar or horde Orks could be a problem.

What tweaks would you suggest?

Good question.
How about a unit with flamers to soften up large Ork mobz.

I could save points by swapping my infernus pistols for hand flamers on the sarges. Alternatively, I could add them to the priests, or both.

For sure on the RAS units where you already have 2 Meltaguns each you can switch for 2 hand flamers but the lovely old flamer will be nice somewhere.

Power Weapons on the VV's Sarges seems really a poor choice, why not nome other hand flamers?

Toban wrote:For sure on the RAS units where you already have 2 Meltaguns each you can switch for 2 hand flamers but the lovely old flamer will be nice somewhere.

Power Weapons on the VV's Sarges seems really a poor choice, why not nome other hand flamers?

Power weapons on the VV sarge's because they are free. I always try to Heroic Intervention with my Vanguard so I dont usually upgrade weapons. They also seem to die once they wipe out the squad that they charge.

Any others have experience running all jumpers in today's mechanized world?

I ran an all jumpers list before, bad idea. :(

Unsupported jumpers would go into assault too weak in numbers or even not at all.

I would suggest a cheap fire base like Preds.

I have had soem luck with all jump infantry units, but I do meen all jump infantry.

6, 10 man assult marine squads with infernius pistols and hand flamers and a 100 point HQ of your choice along with some other things that you want to use up the extra points with

baroncrowle wrote:I ran an all jumpers list before, bad idea. :(

Unsupported jumpers would go into assault too weak in numbers or even not at all.

I would suggest a cheap fire base like Preds.

Is it just me or is that a terrible idea? I cant see the merit in placing a small piece of my army on the board turn 1. Every enemy gun will be fired at the predators as they are the only thing on the board. Why would I do this?

You can start with your jump infantry on the board, you dont have to deep strike them...

My BA are a mix of jumpers and mech support. I found that if I rely on ams squad melt as that I would fail to pop the transport resulting in my ams getting charged and killed. With proper support however the transport has already been popped and my guys get Thierry FC.

My blog has my ard boy list that took first in the 16 player prelims and is a combined arms approach.

DooDoo, to answer your orginal question in a more on topic and specific way.....

-Yes you have built an all jump list

-Yes it is a stratagey that can sometimes win

-No it is not an all corners list

By "all corners" I took that to meen a well rounded list that could be competitave against any opponent, you have alot of anti armor potential, but horde armies and people that are good at the distance game are going to wreck havick with your force.

I've played a list very similar to this, I had 60 assult marines on the table at 1500 points. Was it a neat idea? Of course it was. Would I take it to a tournament? Not on my life.

Why would I fear a standoff army when I can deep strike on top of them with minimal risk. Descent of Angels is so good that its almost ridiculous. I am just looking for ways to improve upon this theme while staying within the confines of jump troops. Adding hand flamers does seem like a good compromise.

Why would I fear a standoff army when I can deep strike on top of them with minimal risk. Descent of Angels is so good that its almost ridiculous. I am just looking for ways to improve upon this theme while staying within the confines of jump troops. Adding hand flamers does seem like a good compromise.

What I call the distance game and a standoff army are not the same thing. Your still deep striking relitivly week units into someones bacl field.

Assult Marines are sort of like a glass sword. Sure they are pretty and when used very delicatly they are plenty sharp. But if you drop them they will shatter

FNP makes them at least pyrex though. 40-60 FNP marines are not that easy to kill. These are not ultramarines.

Lol, you said pyrex. Anways, your FNP roll is based on 3 IC which would be pretty easy to take out in CC.

Im just giving you my experiances...Take it for what you will.

I tried a list, almost all jumpers

Dante w/ Honour Guard that have lots of anti-tank
Astorath w/ Assualt Squad, new VV Sarg and a Flamer
Death Company w/ Lemartes
VV 4 Power Weapons
Baal Predator

I leave everything in reserve, I try to get the Pred and Dante on the field first, then the Death Company, these units soften everything up, then the Vanguard come down and immediately assualt a powerful unit, finally the Assualt Squad come down on any objectives.

I try to get them in this order by making use of Descent of Angels and re-rolling reserves.

phantommaster wrote:I tried a list, almost all jumpers

Dante w/ Honour Guard that have lots of anti-tank
Astorath w/ Assualt Squad, new VV Sarg and a Flamer
Death Company w/ Lemartes
VV 4 Power Weapons
Baal Predator

Now that's a pretty interesting list that gives me an idea.

DooDoo, if you are planning to deepstrike all of your units then take 1-2 Vanguard vets to tie up those threats that would most likely make you lose the opportunity to charge. Having a deepstriking anti-armor unit is a pretty good idea as well.

If people do shoot at your pred then its probably doing one of two things that makes its relatively cheap cost useful, being a decent fire base OR taking shots for your assault marines.

And the other guys are correct this is a hard sell as a list that would do well against any army.

As far as non-jumpers go, I could see the viability in outflanking some Baals. Lots of chance involved in that strategy though.

I don't have the BA dex nut have played against a list thats very similar to yours and have to say that catyrpelius is correct, I play a very distance oriented army of vanilla marines and when I played against this list I deployed across as much of my zone as possible keeping unit integrity and moved on turn one to further separate my units and keep fire lanes open, when my opponent started DSing I lost a little here and there and shot the angels to death on the following turn. I must agree that you need some form of fire base on the board on turn 1 to focus a shooty armies attention while you plan you drops.

Well. I just mowed down a Tau and a Codex Marine army. I am starting to wonder if your efforts to dissuade me from my endeavor relate to holding me back. Will report after next battle...

Yes its a giant consperiacy concocked by forum members that dont even know each other to hold you back.

We have weekly meetings and a secret handshake to.

"Dissuade me from my endeavor" - yeah go use those big words big shot.

Define "mowed down" can I see a full battle report?

Oh and Catyrpelius, should I bring the flaming small caps "T" this weekend?

=))

The all jump army has been nothing but a total blast for me so far. I have 23 games logged so far and quite a bit of fine tuning from it, but there is so much more to try as well. Those saying the army can't do well, I disagree but the army has advantages and there is things that it does suffer from. No long distant shooting and while very durable it doesn't kill quickly in close combat. Yet where it does shine is it obliterates heavy mech themed armies with only IG with mystics being the exception but will soon change with the release of the new Demon Hunter codex. Just this last weekend I finally had a chance to play mech eldar army with Eldrad, x2 Fire Prisms ( fully tooled ) and 5 wave serpents, in two turns ( 2 and 3 deep striking ) I had all but one serpent destroyed or immoblized and both fire prisms taken out.


Some suggestions on squad set ups

Honor Guard:

Your set up is almost there. I personally like x3 honor guard squad members with both Melta Guns and Flamers each, and one with twin lightning claws. The other set up is 4 with Melta Guns and Flamers each. I also prefer to use Honor Guard over Sanguinary Priest since they can't be singled out normally in Honor Guard but will force you to keep your other units in close if you want the FNP and FC.

Librarians

While Blood Lance looks crazy in text, its some what lacking in actuall game play. I prefer Sanguinary Shield and Unleashed Rage OR Unleashed Rage and Might of Heroes ( cast this on the Sergeant with a PF ). The Librarian is a incredible force multiplier and is clutch at gettting an average CC squad to fight at a much higher level.



Assault Squads

That in my opinion is the perfect set and is how I run all my assault squads. The hand flamer simply isnt worth the price for a str 3 flamer despite it allowing an extra attack in CC as an extra CC weapon. The difficult thing is learning when to combat squad this unit and when not to pending on set up, mission, and your opponent. Remember you can combat squad when coming in from reserves using decent of angels to deep strike them as x2 5 man units.

This unit is based on speed and excels at hitting flanks quickly and isolating their army if they spread out to much. As many have stated they aren't incredible in close combat but when you add force multiplies such as Sanguinary Priest, Librarians, Chaplains or if in range of The Sanguinor can turn a average unit into something more frightning. With 3 melta guns and the ability to jump 12" makes this unit very lethal to any vehicle.

The only downside to this unit is its not very good at holding down objectives, I believe tactical squads are still king here but they are great at attacking new objectives or quickly getting back to reinforce existing objectives being held.




The jump army isn't a straight forward list with simple stratagies that are quickly mastered but rather learning where and what to surgically take out and react to missions and the opponents army and set up. The Blood Angels codex allows for quite a few types of play styles and the fine tuning imho is still in the learning stages. So many types of hybrid versions I still want to try.


Any ways best of luck

So do you advice a Meltaguns equipped Assault sq? Even if this will let they lose 1 CC attack?

In the free time I was considering this list, of course fluffy and a litle hard to play but with a lot of interesting combos to try:

QG - Dante. 225
QG - Sanguinor. 275
EL - Sanguinary Priest - jump pack. 75
EL - Sanguinary Priest - jump pack. 75
EL - Sanguinary Priest - jump pack. 75
TR - 5x Sanguinary Guard - PF - 2x Infernus Pistol - 5x Death Masks - Chapter Banner. 285
TR - 10x Assault Marines - Serg. w/PF + Infernus Pistol - 2x Infernus Pistol - Jump Packs. 260
TR - 10x Assault Marines - Serg. w/PF + Infernus Pistol - 2x Infernus Pistol - Jump Packs. 260
TR - 10x Assault Marines - Serg. w/PF +Hand Flamer - 2x Hand Flamer - Jump Packs. 220
TR - 5x Scout - 5x Camo Cloacks - 4x Sniper - 1x ML. 100

Obviously the units will be organizzed in Dante + the Sanguinary Guard and 3 Assault units with the Sanguinary Priest for each one with the Sanguinor hunting the enemy's IC.
For the scout units, I don't know what to do with this 100 points, I like a lot the idea of one outflanking B.Pred but I need to find some other point here and here.

I know that the Infernus Pistol aren't really extraordinary but I will test in anycase they're efficiency in combo with Descent of Angels. To be in range will not alwais be a great problem, to be in the 2D6 range instead..

Maybe an old setup style with regular Meltaguns and Flamers, even if this will force me to loose some CC attack will grant better results.

So do you advice a Meltaguns equipped Assault sq? Even if this will let they lose 1 CC attack?

Yes, melta guns all the way. The loss of 1 attack will not make any serious difference and the 6" 2d6 and 12" range is huge. The infernus pistol has uses but I only equip sergeants with them and even then it can be challenging at times to get them into the 2d6 melta range.

As to your Sanguinary Guard I would drop the infernus pistols and the masks. The masks are really overpriced and should come standard with the squad at 200 points and rarely do they work otherwise. Also the banner is nice but remember it only effects the squad that carries it for the extra attack.

Another note on your list is you incredibly character heavy in points with 500 in Dante and Sang and another 225 in Priests.

A slight modification to your list if you want to play Sanguinor might be to go with:

Sanguinor 275
Librarian jump pack ( Shield of Sanguinis + Unleashed Rage )- 125
Sang Priest jump pack - 75
Honor Guard with 4 Melta Guns and 4 Flamers Jump Packs 225
Honor Guard with 4 Melta Guns and 4 Flamers Jump Packs 225
Assault Marines x4 10 man
x2 Squads with Melta Gun x2, 1 PF + Infernus Pistol in each squad 250 each
x2 Squads with Melta Gun x2, 1 PF in each squad 235 each
5 man scout squad with camo + Sniper Rifles + Missile Launcher 100

58 Marines, 3 Priests, Scouts for holding the scoring objective in your zone so Sanguinor and the boys can run wild, 16 Melta Guns and 2 Infernus Pistols for armor or hvy infantry, 8 Flamers for Hordes, with the Librarian providing cover saves to any unit that touches his 6" shield radius ( assuming he gets the shield off ) + Psychic defense and can use Unleashed Rage to help in CC. You will have the option to deep strike to take out threats or run them across and be in your opponents face in 2 turns or a little of both all pending on the situation.

As for Dante he is good but needs his own list and I wouldnt advise going double high point name characters in a list under 2500.

Quick question, can I really field that "Ripley" Honor Guard Squad

I prefer meltaguns over infernus pistols as well, the one attack in cc is nothing compared to the 12 inch melta shot.