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So, I'm officially starting Cryx. <---Nurgle follower starting Cryx? so suprising...

I got the MKII Rulebook, the Cryx Battle Box (sadly still MkI cards) and a Warwitch Siren (lovely model).

I've done alot of reading off of BattleCollege, Warseer/Dakka/40KO/Librarium Online Warmachine Boards, and have listened to alot of podcasts and other players here before jumping in.
So I have alot of information, but no real experience and kind of scatterbrained.

Casters I like:

pDenny, p & e Gaspy, and Coven.
PDenny ( I do like de-buffs ).
Coven ( his is the caster I wanted most )
p & e Gaspy look pretty straight-forward to use and I do like pGaspy as a beat stick, and I feel epic form is pretty epic.

I'm not a huge fan of the jacks, which sounds contradictory in Warmachine...so I guess eGaspy appeals to me a bit more at the moment.

I really love the Soulhunters.
They seem to go really well with pDenny ('cause debuffs help them hit harder with 3 different attacks) and eGaspy on feat turn.
Though I'm not a fan of the Wrathe model....but don't know why.
Rules wise, he goes well with Soulhunters so they can move through alot of stuff, but I'm more a fan of say... Brocker...modelwise and he does hit a bit harder and twice as many times...though he can benefit from pDenny's debuffing, he has no business in eGaspy's feat.

I’m thinking of Saytixs Raiders as the second Unit choice, with witch of course.

Soulhunters charge in getting initial attacks and then jetting away while Saytix go in second to clean up (they can tickle a Jack (or annoy it a bit more with power swell maybe) if need be and feedback sounds cool to use, but something to not rely on).
Well that is the idea anyway.

So, I have a lot of expected anti-infantry (though not sure how it works out in game), and so I need something to work on Jacks and just heavier stuff in general.
Bane XYZ seem the natural choice with charge+weapon master being 11+4D6.

I was thinking, what of the Withershadow and say Pistol Wraiths. Withershadow have effectively weapon master against Jacks and can double up as a magical shooty platform or the Pistol Wraith who can focus on disabling jacks rather than killing them outright.

Don’t get me wrong, I do love Bane Thralls and Bane Knights…but they do seem to have a negative response from the little info I have on my gaming group.
Now, I know it’s a game to play to win, but I guess I tailor to my group at the moment as I’m a new-comer and don’t want to come off as a WAAC player coming in, so I guess I’m looking at alternatives to the Banes.

So what do you think of something along these lines:

pDenny
Ripper
Ripper
Skarlock
3 Soul Hunters
6 S. Raiders w/ Witch
WitherShadow
WW Siren

This is 25 points IIRC.

pDenny does her debuffing through Rippers.
Siren powers a chicken (saving 1 focus) and adds another spray.
Rippers are there to be arcs, but can hurt something if need be or slam with debuffs going on.
Skarlock is for Ghostly(saving 3 focus) and a spray if he needs to, but unlikely offensive.
Soul Hunters move fast while Satyx are fast too, they should reach the opponent at the same time really. Soul hunters go after squishy troopers while S. Raiders can go after Jacks or Shield wall units.
Wither Shadow provides their dark fire and jack-moving-near-them-deterrent. They can upkeep one of pDenny’s upkeep (faving 1 focus)…attack it with something, then drop it and throw it on something else and hurt something else real good.

So, the list has a lot of anti-infantry and anti-solo, but it still looks like it’s not doing too well against really tough stuff, but pDenny does get to do her thing and a total savings of 5 focus on a 7 focus character sounds pretty nice as well.

The list is fragile from what I can see.
Satyxis has buffs vs. range, but after they commit they seem doomed at close ranges and not charging stuff.
Light Cav is Light Cav.
Denny, Withershadow, and Siren are essentially relying on Stealth as there are no cloud effects or large based models to block line of sight.

So, it’s shaping up to be a one turn army with assassination in mind, but no sustainability after getting stuck in.

Do you think this is an accurate picture of what I’m thinking of getting?

Oh, last question, I prob. should get the Faction Deck Cards, they look pricey?

Thanks for wading through.

One note about Light Cavalry: if they're engaged in melee and they make their light
cavalry move they will take freestrikes, possibly killing them.

Fortunately Soulhunters have permanent Reach and access to Ghost Walk from Deneghra. Both of these abilities can mitigate or negate the freestrike problems suffered by lesser (non Cryx) light cavalry.

@ Sanctjud: Your list looks ok, plenty of room to expand when you move to larger point games.

Oh yea, so they better had killed all models that they were engaged with and then hopefully they are not in a combat range of a person to move away from.

But I'm guessing the 'hope' part is pretty high.

Hmm... I'd think that would work much better for eGaspy then if it's getting later into the game.
But for pDenny, is it a bigger concern.

What about this then...
If the Soulhunters have Ghostly, provided I have enough space, can I charge the line, but move through to be in the back arc?

Then any suriviors are attacked by Satyxis... then if the Soulhunters move away they can't be free striked fromt the back arc right?

Or total rules phail?

Yes and no.

If the charge target leaves your front arc at any time during the charge, it's considered a failed charge and you end your activation. So it can be done, but unless you can keep them in your front arc the whole time, you won't get to attack.

The best option is actually to use the 2" reach.

Hmm.
Yea, and you charge directly forward, so no sideways charge shenanigans.

2” reach preferably against a non-reach opponent.

Oh yea, pDenny's Ghost Walk does give Ghostly which allows ignoreing free strikes.

Another option then... is to Ghost Walk the Soulhunters....move through say the front line to the back line infantry small based models as the Cav can see them...then have the Saytix follow up with the front line.

In this situation, with the Soulhunters deeper in the enemy army... how should that extra 5" be used?
I guess I can continue to move through them after hitting the infantry and be behind them...not sure how useful that would be...wouldn't keeping engaged be better to lock down the enemy unit.

Thought they could still be shot in combat correct, so maybe that distance would be enough to get out of a lethal range (unlikely but its something). If I still end up in the combat range of a unit member, they are still 'locked'? ( I know there are some 40K terms, sorry ).

While it's true you can be shot in combat, the penalty is pretty high (-4) and unless my memory is failing soulhunters already have some decent DEF, so staying engaged isn't a bad idea. As far as what to do with the extra move, it's going to be situational. There is no catch-all "you should always do X" and it's going to take a good bit of trial and error to figure out when you need to pull back and when you can blitz through the enemy. Also, if a ranged unit is giving you trouble, don't be afraid to run the 16" to engage the enemy and keep them from shooting especially if your opponent doesn't have a way to fight the soulhunters nearby.

I can't comment much on the list you came up with because it's pretty much stuff I don't use, with the exception of the Bone Chickens where I'll say I prefer Nightwrenches over Rippers, as if your Arc Node is in melee it can't Arc Node. my experience with them is they hang back, getting into a good position, run forward when a target presents itself, spell arcs thru, and they die.

Since you talked about the Great Gaspys, eGaspy is my caster of choice in 25pt+ games right now, and pGaspy gets used in the 15 Mangled Metal games. eGaspy doesn't like many `Jacks (i take two nodes and no others), loves lots of Troops, loves Soul Hunters and Warwitches and the Withershadow Combine, though I only use the Withershadow from that list. Wrathe works well on eGaspy's Feat if he's not dead or is otherwise able to use his "everyone get to move 1"" spell.

When you said negative reaction to Bane Thrall and Knights, do you mean they don't like them, or they'll hate you forever for taking them? Banes of both types are super awesome, and are what all my units (other than withershadow toolbox) are made up of. Bane Knights, led by Bane Lord Tartarus(auce) are pure Death on eGaspy's Feat turn, and rip things up quite well before then too. Both people on the `net seem to prefer Bane Thralls, but I love my Knights.

@Mastershake:
I didn't realize you can engage an enemy after running. You can't attack, but you get to lock them. That sound like a great tool in the back pocket.

@Aduro:
I wanted to go with Wretches as well, but A. they are the models that come in the box and B. I'm not confident with my convert skills to make the Ripper a Wretch, maybe in the future (head swapping essentially) .

I'm thinking I'll make the most of it.
With pDenny and her debuffs, both Jacks can actually be expected to do something. Making the most of the ripper would prob. include slamming stuff to get them knocked down and get their defense low.

Yea, their death is next to expected.

I like the Gaspys too for the same reasons... Prime for really low points and Epic for when there are more bodies.

Wrathe, I understand that every inch is needed, but he's got only 1 attack...and needs to kill an enemy model...after which he needs to pass the test on a 7... it just seems alot of work for that 9" bubble of 1"...

Yes Banes are awesome to look at and to use I'm guessing .
I think I just need to slowly work it in... I'm sure it's just that the gaming group officer had a really bad experience and horrible nightmares of it afterwards.

As for Thralls vs. Knights, I think Khights work better.

Tartarus is gonna be around so you are gonna get curse and the -2 Armor aura.
Bane Knights have reach, so they can get really far on feat.
In addition, because they don't have Stealth they can be shot. When shot they can move a bit more, meaning they get to the action faster and REACH into combat... sure they die along the way, but that's the point.

The Thrall love I'm guessing is because of the new UA. They have no problem tough rolls and stealth which means they get to the other side relatively safely...which is good as alive dudes can do stuff next turn and then next next turn...and feating the UA Champion gets more bang for the buck.

But I feel the knights 'fit' with eGaspy more, as the Thralls make more sense with Casters who want their dudes to last longer .

Sanctjud wrote:
Wrathe, I understand that every inch is needed, but he's got only 1 attack...and needs to kill an enemy model...after which he needs to pass the test on a 7... it just seems alot of work for that 9" bubble of 1"...

You realize that the Magic number only matters for offensive spells i.e. spells that target enemies, so for spells targeting friendlies or without a tartget like say Death Ride, it just happens with no rolling right? Also, unless Wrathe has been massively misplayed every time I've gone against him, he doesn't need to kill anything to cast spells, he just needs an action to cast. So effectively all you have to do for the extra move is activate him and use his action to cast it.

In regards to Nightwretches v. Deathrippers, in truth it often won't matter. Most turns they're either running to get into position or dead. The closest thing to combat they'll see is the occaisional slam attack. The Nightwrech does have a gun, but the thing has pretty dreadful range, so if you still want to arc spells it's not much of an upgrade over a melee attack as far as keeping you from being engaged.

You definitely need a harder hitting unit. I would drop the Satyxis for Mechanithralls or Banes of either flavor.

One combo with pDenny to try is to get crippling grasp on a unit that you can't charge, but then engage it with a running unit of soulhunters.
You are right there, but if you make the enemy suck bad enough, you will be there to hit back.

The best turns I have had have involved pDenny's feat with Crippling Grasp on a key unit of the enemy.

I would still like to get the 3 casts of crippling in one turn. If I could get it on feat turn, it would be awesome!

How about this:

pDenny
Ripper
Ripper

3 SoulHunters
WSC
10 Bane Knights

Tartarus
WWS
Gorman
Skarlock

34 points (a bit bigger)

Basically the list expanded to include Bane Knights and Tartarsauce as the hvy damage dealers and the main battle line.
Gorman does as much protection as he can.

WSC hover near the flank and do their tool box thing.
SoulHunters on a flank, they don't have Wrathe, but will get Ghost Walk to make up for the moving through terrain thing.

WWS/Skarlock are for focus efficiency with pDenny.

What this list lacks is...prob. a primary assassin as pDenny seems to be that kind of play-style.

These options were mainly chosen as they could translate well into slipping eGaspy as the leader.
The only thing that changes is dropping the Skarlock for Wrathe and it's at a cool 35 points.

What does Gorman do for thsi list?

Denny and Tartarus have stealth. Is he keeping stuff behind a cloud, or is he using his grenades to Black Oil or Rust?

If you have a Defiler, you might as well swap it in since you have the point.
Then you have a POW 12 spray.
Defiler, Siren, skarlock, then Denny and you have a hell of a lot of Spray!
Plus the WSC each have a shot if you choose.

Gorman w/ Denny, more debuff.
Along the way he's a cloud for Denny as another option to protect her along the way cause I don't have like a jack to block line of sight to her.

Gorman w/ eGaspy, get actually get some debuff .
In addition, if I REALLY need to, eGaspy can save himself the focus by not needing to cast C. Mist defensively.

At least, that's what I'm Theorymachining at the moment.

As for that one point, yea, I can throw in a defiler...the other options would be stuff I don't have like the Machine Wraith or some Stich Thralls, though all three options seem equally interesting for one point.

Heh, I think I have a big hate subconsciously on infantry in general... even to the point I'm skippig out on the heavy hitters .

Sanctjud wrote:Gorman w/ Denny, more debuff.
Along the way he's a cloud for Denny as another option to protect her along the way cause I don't have like a jack to block line of sight to her.

Gorman w/ eGaspy, get actually get some debuff .
In addition, if I REALLY need to, eGaspy can save himself the focus by not needing to cast C. Mist defensively.

W Denny I think you hurt her more than help defensively. With stealth she can't be targetted outside 5", niether can Gorman.
And if they are sharing the cloud protection, its an easier target for a lucky AOE. Splitting them seems a better option.
I can see using him, but mostly offensive for Rust on a heavy, since you aren't running one yourself.

Dunno bout Gaspy, I don't have or run him.

You might be better off swapping out the Bane Knights for a unit of Bane Thralls plus the UA. With Stealth and Tough they'll be a lot more survivable than the Knights as with Denny you don't have the clouds to hide them. The problem is it would cost 1pt more...

Yes, that evil 1 point, and double Yes, the Thralls make more sense for pDenny as they are the brick she wants really.

But to be honest I'm working up to eGaspy at that level...and I'm scatter brained and wanted pDenny to be low points as that's what I have bought so far.

Ok, so lets get back to 25.
From the suggestions and fitting with what I want in the list:

pDenny
Ripper
Ripper
Skarlock
3 SoulHunters
6 Bane Thralls
Bane Thrall UA
Warwitch Siren
Tartarus

So, it has the punch and durability of the banes now. I'm not sure Tartarus is warrented though, due to not having too many banes.

Tartarus creates Banes, so that shouldn't be an issue.

Always take Tartarus when you have banes. He is solid beatstick and the threat of getting some of opponents guys turned to banes in addition to buffing banes with cursing the target unit is great.

mm, well tartarus is 4 points. The banes do not need him to hit and creating extra banes will not happen all to often...

I would go with a cheap screen of infantry. mechthralls are really good at running interference. And with denny's debuffs they can hit really hgard pretty accurate.

@skrulunik:
I guess the idea was, there is a decent possibility that the lower number of banes could be wiped out, and if there are no Banes, then he can't add one.

@Metsuri:
I realize how awesome he is, you don't get nicknamed Tartarsauce for no reason.
Though the buffing is good, esp. to the speed.

@LordRavurion:
I do like the option of McThralls, Brutes, and Surgeons, but models just don't do it for me...they look a bit wonky in my eyes.
But yes, there is a lot of woop-ass in them.
________________

I'm actually getting the box of 3 Soulhunters today
But the $ amount hurts quite a bit.

Price and the IMHO not so beatifull models has kept the soulhunters from my collection...

I am going to search for alternate models for them someday...

The unit with UA tends to be durable enough that you should be able to benefit from Tartarus. It numbers 8 models and has tough.
The trick is getting Tartarus there. If your opponent knows about him, he is target number one.
If you have enough good stuff, your opponent will be hard pressed to take out the key solos AND the Bane Thralls.

I like the soulhunters, both rules and models. They fall into the frail, not real hard hitting level that a few Cryx units are in.
Revenants and Satyxis are there also to me. At least Satyxis get the Sea Witch's Feat.

I am taking to only running Soulhunters with Wrathe. The incorporeal coupled with Tall in the Saddle can really put them in good places.
I need to work on coupling debuffs with their charge though. They kinda suck without a buff/debuff.

@LordRavurion:
What of the Soul Hunters you don't like?
Are the proportions that out of synch? I for one like them, but is looking at them on the table very different than from the pics on the internet?

I'm a fan of Nurgle so...that kind of angle is not something I shy away from .

They do look like a pain to put together though.

@Skrulnik:
Ok, I'll go with the min. Bane Thralls and UA. (Ya think weapon, should, head swaps would make an ok Knight...?).

I'm thinking with Denny she 'buffs' them with de-buffs and they are relying on the speed and the 3 different attacks they bring.

I like the Sea Witch for the defense and offense she brings the Raiders...but I'm not entirely in love with the Raiders' models....I only really like the leader model.

Yea, I'm going pDenny for low points, then they are gonna count on having two tries at killing stuff with eGaspy.

I won't be running Wrathe 'yet', and gonna rely on Ghost Walk for now

Soulhunters suck to build.
The shoulders have to be pinned. With itty bitty pins.
The body sections don't mesh well. I had to do a lot of filing, and probably should have used putty.
The horse leg doesn't quite look right when it is in place.

At least they don't look fat like Wrathe's horse.

For Wrathe, if/when I get to him, I'm gonna 'borrow' the conversion that used the pile of flying bones as a basis for the model...

As for builing... yes, lots of fiddly pinning, but maybe I'll use Greenstuff to cover things up

I liked the conversion that used the Chaos Daemonic Steed for his mount.

I don't knw exactly what I do not like about the soulhunters. It is the overall aestethic I suppose. I like most cryxian units, they just don't feel right....

I am going to look for undead horses which I can put a nice rider on. Maybe have a look at the vampirerange for good base models... I will see...

Right so two lists:

35 eGaspy.

eGaspy
Deathripper
Deathripper
3 Soulhunters
10 Bane Knights
Withershadow Combine
Tartarus
Wrathe
Siren

This leaves 2 points.
I'm open to alot of options I guess.

-Skarlock doesn't seem overly useful for eGaspy.
-Gorman is like I've said, another cloud effect... if he gets targetted oh well, but if gaspy is behind it and throws up another to block line of sight, that's some focus saved. In addition, getting some debuffing is good.
-2 Machine Wraiths just to be annoying, I'm not really on top of the anti-jack, so they seem like something to annoy them.
-Another Siren, it's an option I don't want really as I already have one, but the extra focus is nice and the extra venom is welcomed.
-Saxon Orik: pathfinder is nice gives me a nifty Swiss Army Knife for everything else about him.

______________________________________

25 pDenny:

pDenny
Ripper
Ripper
3 SoulHunters
5 Bane Thralls
Bane Thrall UA
Tartarus
Siren
Leaving 2 points left…which results in similar options to the above, but the Skarlock is a bit more useful with a 'free' Ghostly.

Meh. I don't think I pinned my Soulhunters at all.