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Hi everyone,
Just some general questions about IG ordance batteries (basilisks etc). I sorta reckon the collosus and griffon are a bit pants, but I'm now torn between the basilisk and medusa. I would take the basilisk without question if it weren't for its (huge) minimum range of 36". Seeing as how I don't play apocalypse (yet) I'm assuming I would be wasting my time in getting some. The medusa on the other hand, I'm thinking would be much more suitable for my purpose. This involves effectively using it as a field gun type thing, having it go alongside infantry platoons providing a bit of support.

Is this viable at all? Though I have to say, basilisks are much cooler, having a nice, long barrelled gun, rather than a big fat one. Would I be better off just having leman russes instead? To improve the medusa's coolness factor, I could just give the medusas shorter, slender, smooth cannons, just like the field guns they used in WWII.

Are bastion breacher shells worth investing in, seeing as how once you get them, you have to use them, rather than being able to alternate?

If you want something to go along with your infantry, I would go with the good ol' Leman Russ. Basilisks would be good if you stuck them in a corner, and medusas would be good if you stuck them in a nice area where they can shoot out but enemies can't easily shoot in. The bastion breacher shells are overkill. They are just not needed on a s10 weapon. The only real good thing about the bb shells is that they are ap1.

Remember, bassies can fire directly too, so they can target things less than 36" away if they can see them, IRRC. They are also pretty good vs light armor. Griffins rock in smaller games - who cares its a crappy blast - it only costs 75 pts! Get 3! Torrent of fire, baby. If I could play aardboyz at 1500 I'd be using a griffin list. Well, that and if my griffins were GW models. Collossus would be the best because of the ignoring cover saves, except for the minimum range. I think if your army does anything other than hide in a corner it would be outstanding - just something to keep the foe outside that minimum range, and MEQs get no saves of any kind...

Mmmmm... Basilisks... I'm not sure about firing directly ignoring the minimum range, but if I end up at GW on the weekend, I'll ask.

Min range is min range.

Basilisks FTW I field two in my 1st & Only army.


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To give more info on all this I use them to effect by blasting away at the farthest/biggest targets, and then let my Snipers clean up.

Whats wrong with collosi? S6 ap3 ignore cover large blast and a decent range.

Basilisk can fire directly with no min range, the rule is a bit obscure and I don't have my books handy but I spent a great deal of rime confirming that they could.

The best thing with basilisk is firing indirectly ata target you can see-more accurate shot but still no cover save

The rule isn't obscure - it's plain as day at the top of page 58.

My favorite is a pair of Griffons, they always preform better than I think.

Yes, ANY Ordnance Barrage may direct fire and ignore minimum range unless it's rules say it cannot (Colossus, couple others). So that SM Whirlwind can move and direct fire it's weapon, so can the Bassie, etc etc.

Artillery batteries coukd complement each other, as in my case. I use a manticore in combination with a pair of medusae. It sometimes depend on the army list youre building for, as I have no practical experience with the bassi,i'd prefer the medusa anytime though it has a shorter range and you really have to shield it early on the game if you don't have first strike.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:The rule isn't obscure - it's plain as day at the top of page 58.

Yeah, I guess you're right. I had read it to mean, they are like normal weapons except for the fact they have a min range.

I should get around to post my IG army list. Has anyone fielded any of the Valkyrie's yet?

I like Bassies. I have two and use them frequently. My heavy slots in general look like this:

2x LR Demolishers
2x LRBT
2x Bassies

For less than 2000 points, I'll cut the two LR squads down to one tank if I can't find the points to keep them. Doubly awesome if you can toss the LRBT squad in the opposite corner from all the rest of your stuff and then they have to decide if they're attacking your primary force or these two tanks opposite the board. With regard to valkyries, I used to think they'd be awesome, and tried to get them to work, but I entirely switched over to vendetta recently. I now don't leave home without two of them, not squaded.

The rule is very straightforwardly in the rulebook (page 58), so no need to go asking GW employees, who don't always know the rules very well.

All barrage weapons can fire in two modes, unless otherwise specified (colossus). The two modes are direct & indirect:

Indirect: minimum range applies, shot counts as coming from the center of the blast, so no cover unless in area terrain, LoS not required, firing vehicle not allowed to move, scatter distance modified by BS if the vehicle has LoS, or full distance rolled if firing vehicle doesn't have LoS.

Direct: minimum range does not apply, shot counts as coming from the firing unit, LoS required, firing vehicle can move at combat speed, scatter distance modified by BS.

Okay, so it's not that simple. But once you get used to it, it gives you a lot of flexibility.

Bassie fire to bring down a ruin! Not that I have done that..

Griffon is pants?! Madness, the Griffon is undoubtedly the best of the ordnance battery tanks.

Basilisks are crippled by that outrageous minimum range. If you're going to fire directly, may as well just take Medusae.

I think if people understood indirect fire rules better, they might be more afraid of basilisks.

For example, suppose you pop a rhino on the other side of the board with hydra fire or something. The marines bail out behind the wreck and hunker down for cover. With your next shot, drop an indirect basilisk round on top of them. If it hits (or scatters the right way, but not too much), those marines are dying on 2s with no saves of any kind. A battle cannon or demolisher or other direct-fire weapon would give them cover saves.

Or suppose a guy is hiding a tank behind terrain or behind another tank. Drop your indirect earthshaker shot on top of it for a str9, 2d6-pick-the-highest ordinance shot *on the side armor* (because of indirect fire rules) with no cover save from the intervening model. Take that, predator/vindicator.

Medusas can't do that. Manticores can, but not medusas.

A basilisk is terrifying. Just put it in the opposite corner of what you want to shoot at. One on each corner will ensure long lasting danger. Also when an enemy is within 36" they are probably within line of sight. Or just shoot at something else.

Right, just plop it in the opposite corner, either committing yourself to arranging your forces around it, or leaving it by its lonesome to be easy bait for any number of outflanking/deep striking threats.

I also have to admit that I didn't learn the 5th edition indirect fire rules either until I started using a whirlwind regularly. Sometimes I still have to explain, even to experienced players, "no you don't get a cover save because the shot is indirect" or "your chimera is only armor 10 in this case because the shot is indirect" or "I can shoot you even though I can't see you in night fight." Or the most common "no, I still get to subtract my BS even though the shot is indirect because I can see you."

It's a lot to keep track of, but once you know it, you really start to understand the advantages of barrage weapons.

Barrage weapons for the win!

Definitely looking forward to some basilisk action from this discussion.

Direct: minimum range does not apply, shot counts as coming from the firing unit, LoS required, firing vehicle can move at combat speed, scatter distance modified by BS

really? I've been using it all wrong then, I thought they still couldn't move and the direct fire did not use a template.

SpankHammer III wrote:

Direct: minimum range does not apply, shot counts as coming from the firing unit, LoS required, firing vehicle can move at combat speed, scatter distance modified by BS

really? I've been using it all wrong then, I thought they still couldn't move and the direct fire did not use a template.

When it fires directly, a barrage weapon works exactly like any direct fire blast weapon--just like your Russes and Vindicators.

It's only the indirect fire that's different.

Yep, found the minimum range thing, thanks MasterSlowPoke and others. I think I'm basically decided on basilisks, they are truly terrifying (for the enemy), are really killy and look really cool. I might park the basilisks in the corner with an infantry platoon or something guarding them. If worst comes to worst, the basilisks still have hull-mounted heavy bolters.

I have no idea when I'll start IG, I guess it depends on when I get bored of SM. I'll try and get a list up soon though (with basilisks of course).

When it fires directly, a barrage weapon works exactly like any direct fire blast weapon--just like your Russes and Vindicators.

It's only the indirect fire that's different.

Dude thats so much better than what i've been doing, thanks. I loved my bassie before but now I might have to take it out for dinner or something. Page 58 is that of the BRB or codex (sorry at work so don't have either on me)

I mainly love the basilisk because of all the awesomeness fluff that's in the codex about the ground shaking when it fires and stuff.

I just loved the model, few people told me it wasn't worth it anything less than apoc, but I ignored them.

Tactic I heard, which sounds better thanks to my new understanding of direct fire, was to partner a basilisk with a griffon so at 48" you have a super accurate basilisk. Admittedly the griffon would be a little redundant in some circumstances but what do you think?

Yup, bassie can direct fire and everything and just is a 100% win weapon. But nobody's mentioned the medusa much yet. Dispite the (relatively) low range, it's ap2, uber strength and barrage so ignores cover. That can just annihalate anything. Where else can you get s10 large blast without ridiculously short range? And BB shells aren't overkill. It can take out monoliths and LRs with ease using them. Plus, griffon is the best of the ordnance. How else can you get pie plate barrage for just 75 pts? And collossus is ultimate anti-MEQ. No cover, ap3, s6 and pie plate. Basicly, all guard ordnance owns everything.