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Well, since we are doing it for other armies, I wanted to know what other people thought.

Gors w/ AHW will get 18 attacks at WS4, thats 12 from the front rank (6x2) and 6 from the back rank. Pretty decent, even if it is at S3

Bestigors aren't as bad, with only 1A per model, they aren't affected by the only 1A per model from the back, so 12 attacks at S6, pretty decent, though they DO strike last.

I'm thinking of taking my Cygor out all together with this new magic system, I don't know. Just seems like not as many people will be using magic, and I'd rather have two more units of gors if that's true.

Thoughts?

I still think the cygor is a strong unit. Gives the beastmen a ranged threat.

Most people will take a wizard. Even if he is just there for scroll caddy purposes one is a necessity (otherwise you waste your 2D6 dice...)

With the hatred rule the bestigores will actually be rather good. Minotaurs will be pretty good as well.

What really will shine is cheep infantry support in the form of chariots o doom. A simple chariot running along near the infantry blocks in a combo charge will rock most things.

Im wondering if the chariots cant be instagibbed by Str 7 rule comes into play how effective a chariot heavy beast list would be.

18 S3 WS4 attacks isn't that great, actually: Only 3 wounds against a unit of Empire Swordsmen, four against Clanrats, and two against Saurus. That's assuming Parry confers only the Ward. Nothing too impressive.

Going Chariot-heavy and just smashing a unit to pieces with several D6 S5 (or is it S4?) impact hits will probably work better. 4D6 impact hits would be nothing to scoff at, after all.

I could honestly care less about mathhammer, it examines things in a vaccum, which fantasy does not play out on.

Karon wrote:I could honestly care less about mathhammer, it examines things in a vaccum, which fantasy does not play out on.

It examines things in a vacuum yes. However it will always play out in the end.

If you build an army around your dice being "hot" you will get stomped when you roll mediocre.

Build a list around average rolls and statistics you will normally even out.

Sure one time you may get 6 wounds when you should only get 3, but other times you may only get 1 wound when you should get 5. It all evens out again. The math exists for a reason, the averages play out eventually.

Except it doesn't examine when I have 2 Tuskgor chariots folloiwng around all my gors, never letting them go into a combat alone.

it could!

I think math hammer is handy provided you recognize the limitations. It's good to know how many wounds to expect to get out of your gor block against a given target.

File that information away and use it to decide if you still want to make that charge even though one of your chariots is smashed to pieces.

999 posts, Red Zeke! Make the 1000th count!

---------------

I recognize mathhammer is useful to get an idea of what to expect against a given target, all I'm saying is that I hate it when people throw the label "Terrible" on a unit because it doesn't do too well in the vacumm that is mathhammer.

I wasn't calling them terrible, just none too impressive as the "pretty decent" comment made them out to be. Combo'd with a pair of Chariots, I'd definitely favor them more. However, keep in mind that next edition chariots are going to be less reliable than now: Unlike the Gors, the Chariots won't have Banners to allow a re-roll for dice on the charge.

As far as I can tell, NOTHING is going to be reliable in a charge when charge ranges are random. Actually I see chariots having a resurgence, especially in low I armies. Impact hits are the only way for them to inflict damage before being swatted by their faster foes. Looks like da boyz is gonna haveta dust off da old porkwagons!

Chariots are getting better in 8th, as a very supported rumor is the S7 auto-kill is gone.

I'm fairly new, but I've been rolling then numbers. It seems to me that if your having a unit of gos versus a unit of swordsmen the gors will get 25% of attacks into wounds and swordsmen will only get 16% of attacks into wounds. This difference will give you enough wounds to increase you combat resolution. Now the only problem i see is that the empire have a 1/3 chance armor save and gors have none, which could change the situation from 25% to well 8% which is half of what the enemy will be dealing. So holding their own against them id say not, but combined with other things it could work. I wouldn't send my gors into swordsmen unless i just wanted to tie them down for awhile.

Again I'm new, so i don't know if this is correct. It's just how it played out in my head.

In my haste i forgot that the gors if passed leadership test will get rerolls on misses. this makes the hit chance 75% and wound chance 37.5%, then armor saves makes a 12.5% of attacks kills.

Yesterday I played my Chaos against some Beastmen. This was my first game of 8th Ed. My friend Vince was playing the Beastmen. He had played several games using the new rules so he was getting me up to speed.

I learned several things about the Beastem in 8th:
*A unit of Gors can take advantage of the Hordes rule. Vince had ran a unit of near 40 and had a BSB and a Gorebull leading them. This unit withstood (and eventually repelled a small unit of Khorne warriors, a unit of marauders, Marauder horsemen and some warhounds. I was getting frustrated because I was able to win combat, but since he had ranks he was stubborn with a re-roll. Nice combo.
*A BSB is absolutely necessary. Unless we read it wrong the BSB will allow the Beastmen to re-roll failed Primal Fury test.
*Chariots are much more survivable now.
*Lore of Beasts is a nasty Lore and the ability to summon creatures will lead to people running Suicide Mages.
*Minotaurs and Minotaur Character's Stomp is sweet. That combined with their Impact Hits makes them even deadlier.
*I think Beastmen are more competitive in 8th, but take what I say with a grain of salt.

ShivanAngel wrote:Im wondering if the chariots cant be instagibbed by Str 7 rule comes into play how effective a chariot heavy beast list would be.

As soon as I read that chariots were getting more powerful I thought the same thing:

This is my first list for 8th and my first WFB list since 6th, so please don't rip into me too badly if you think this list won't work:

Gorthor = 415
Razorgor Chariot

Tuskgor Chariot = 80
Tuskgor Chariot = 80
Tuskgor Chariot = 80

Tuskgor Chariot = 80
Tuskgor Chariot = 80
Tuskgor Chariot = 80

Tuskgor Chariot = 80
Tuskgor Chariot = 80
Tuskgor Chariot = 80

Tuskgor Chariot = 80
Tuskgor Chariot = 80
Tuskgor Chariot = 80

Tuskgor Chariot = 80

Razorgor = 55
Razorgor = 55

Razorgor Chariot = 145
Razorgor Chariot = 145
Razorgor Chariot = 145

The way I see it, it will take a lot to destroy all of my chariots and you won't be able to stop all of them before they reach your lines.

The army will split into 3 groups of 3 Tuskgor Chariots and a Razorgor Chariot, Gorthor and 3 Tuskgor Chariots and 1 Tuskgor Chariot with the 2 Razorgors.

All in all, each group (except the 2 Razorgor Group) will be hitting with 4D6 Str 5 Impact Hits plus all the other attacks from the riders and the pigs.

I think it can work, but since I'm no expert at whfb, I'd like some confirmation from someone who is.

radiohazard wrote:

ShivanAngel wrote:Im wondering if the chariots cant be instagibbed by Str 7 rule comes into play how effective a chariot heavy beast list would be.

As soon as I read that chariots were getting more powerful I thought the same thing:

This is my first list for 8th and my first WFB list since 6th, so please don't rip into me too badly if you think this list won't work:

Gorthor = 415
Razorgor Chariot

Tuskgor Chariot = 80
Tuskgor Chariot = 80
Tuskgor Chariot = 80

Tuskgor Chariot = 80
Tuskgor Chariot = 80
Tuskgor Chariot = 80

Tuskgor Chariot = 80
Tuskgor Chariot = 80
Tuskgor Chariot = 80

Tuskgor Chariot = 80
Tuskgor Chariot = 80
Tuskgor Chariot = 80

Tuskgor Chariot = 80

Razorgor = 55
Razorgor = 55

Razorgor Chariot = 145
Razorgor Chariot = 145
Razorgor Chariot = 145

The way I see it, it will take a lot to destroy all of my chariots and you won't be able to stop all of them before they reach your lines.

The army will split into 3 groups of 3 Tuskgor Chariots and a Razorgor Chariot, Gorthor and 3 Tuskgor Chariots and 1 Tuskgor Chariot with the 2 Razorgors.

All in all, each group (except the 2 Razorgor Group) will be hitting with 4D6 Str 5 Impact Hits plus all the other attacks from the riders and the pigs.

I think it can work, but since I'm no expert at whfb, I'd like some confirmation from someone who is.

That could possibly be the most expensive army to build, as well as the most boring to play.


"Oh, you got 17 Chariots...one of which is your general? Yeah, its safe to say that you win"

I wouldn't find it boring at all.

I love chariots and gladitorial games throughout history and film (Ben-Hur and Gladiator are two of my favourite films and I'm loving Blood and Sand on Bravo), so for me, this is an army that has peaked my interest.

The fun part for me is to see how my opponent can get rid of all my guys before I crush him under the wheels of my chariots.

Also, if I told you that I could pick up each chariot for about £10, it suddenly becomes a very cheap army.

Chariots are not hard to scratch build.

But don't you need a standard to capture objectives to win the game?

Yes it does look like you will need a standard to capture objectives, so you will be unable to capture any (which would mean you always lose).

Also no magic? Even a lvl 1 bray-shaman on one of those chariots would be good.

radiohazard wrote:I wouldn't find it boring at all.

I love chariots and gladitorial games throughout history and film (Ben-Hur and Gladiator are two of my favourite films and I'm loving Blood and Sand on Bravo), so for me, this is an army that has peaked my interest.

The fun part for me is to see how my opponent can get rid of all my guys before I crush him under the wheels of my chariots.

Also, if I told you that I could pick up each chariot for about £10, it suddenly becomes a very cheap army.

Chariots are not hard to scratch build.

I said to play against.

Karon wrote:

radiohazard wrote:I wouldn't find it boring at all.

I love chariots and gladitorial games throughout history and film (Ben-Hur and Gladiator are two of my favourite films and I'm loving Blood and Sand on Bravo), so for me, this is an army that has peaked my interest.

The fun part for me is to see how my opponent can get rid of all my guys before I crush him under the wheels of my chariots.

Also, if I told you that I could pick up each chariot for about £10, it suddenly becomes a very cheap army.

Chariots are not hard to scratch build.

I said to play against.

I'm not going to argue with your point, but you really didn't.

It was just an idea for a tourney that I've bounced around in my head for a while.

Their are two major problems with that list radio...

One is its speed. If you roll meeting engagement or mountain pass, and your opponent has any kind of longer than 24" range shooting, you just lose. Both of those missions have VERY deep deployment zones, and are just straight up victory point scenarios.

You could smash apart cavalry based armies quite easily I would think, but the problem you might encounter would be if you ran into an army with just a standard amount of block infantry. Just having a single rank when combat is over gives anyone stubborn against your chariots. once the majority of the chariots get hung up on those units, the "impact" of your army is shut down. The enemy curls around the corner and just starts popping chariots with flank charges and just rolls up the flank.

I'm not saying don't fulfill your core requirement with chariots. You could absolutely do that. But something else needs to be part of the list. Something speedy that can march. Or units that can be stubborn also and grind out a longer combat.

seems like the BSB in a beastman army is a screaming deal. rerolling the ld test for primal fury on a beastlords ld 9 seems awesome.

a gorebull BSB with the +1 str banner in a horde unit of gors giving them frenzy sounds very promising. losing primal fury is a drag, but given the choice of more attacks over rerolls i know what id pick.

the prospect of a beastlord in a razorgor chariot with I6, armor piercing, 5+ scaly skin and armor and the +3 str sword just sounds scary as hell :-D

After reading some of the rules all i can thing is that I'm going to be able to spam 5 Wargor (H.armour, Sheild, Greatweapon) in a 2000pts game, and still have a lord. Just throw them into your Core choice and away you go.

Not made my mind up where to go for Gor or Ungor. Gor have a better weapon skill, toughness and Leadership but cost 3pts more (with a shield/handweapon). Ungor come with a shield and can take a spear and i like the idea of 3 ranks of attacks but they're going to die in droves.

I see a big place for Centigors (whether you take Ghorros or not). Very fast unit with standards, base cost of 139pts.

...edit... Oh and 6 shaman in a circle a round a shard of the herd stone (500pts 6xL1wizards and stone ... min 2000pts game) ok only level 1 but that's 2D6 power dice + 6 + 6(1/6) ... so any where from 8 to 24 power dice. End of the day any of them pop through doubles no much of a problem ... Might also be worth taking a great-brey-shaman with staff of darkoth +1 on all casting results (within 6")

How do you figure 8-24 dice? Your supposed to be capped at 12 max?

I do like when everyone is talking about spamming cheap heros - WoC are going to be licking their chops for the Eyes of the Gods rolling!

radiohazard wrote:

Karon wrote:

radiohazard wrote:I wouldn't find it boring at all.

I love chariots and gladitorial games throughout history and film (Ben-Hur and Gladiator are two of my favourite films and I'm loving Blood and Sand on Bravo), so for me, this is an army that has peaked my interest.

The fun part for me is to see how my opponent can get rid of all my guys before I crush him under the wheels of my chariots.

Also, if I told you that I could pick up each chariot for about £10, it suddenly becomes a very cheap army.

Chariots are not hard to scratch build.

I said to play against.

I'm not going to argue with your point, but you really didn't.

It was just an idea for a tourney that I've bounced around in my head for a while.

I didn't?

"Oh, you got 17 Chariots...one of which is your general? Yeah, its safe to say that you win"

That sentence says your wrong.

Yeah, as has already been said, some of the scenarios would really hurt your list. Your list would do pretty good in a pitched battle, open field kind of thing, but that's not how 8th is going to work. There is going to be lots of terrain and such, which would make your chariots hard to maneuver.

oh your chariot hit my big block of units, guess what they are stubborn.

Next round of combat you probly lose without impact hits.

Mattbranb wrote:How do you figure 8-24 dice? Your supposed to be capped at 12 max?

I do like when everyone is talking about spamming cheap heros - WoC are going to be licking their chops for the Eyes of the Gods rolling!

Good point, hadn't seen the rule book at that point ... however having seen the book Lore of the beast Base spell only needs a 5+ (80% odds on 2D6) having at least 8 dice is still worth it. One unit per wizard (within 12") will be +1S +1T ... Go go ultra gor! Effectively a unit of wargor (minus the extra wound) Come on 7pt Model S4 T5 ... Could also try boosting the range and cast that on abusing units but you'll need more dice.