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I've always been sorta curious about Warmachine, more so after seeing the Cryx models and finally seeing a faction I could empathize with. I recently took my 1st step and bought Lich Lord Terminus for use as a daemon prince (sweet ass model, but a real pain in the ass to assemble), and now I can't stop thinking about playing Warmachine.
But before I commit to anything, I'd like to understand exactly what I'm getting myself into. So my primary question is, what's the deal with all this terminology? Mk1, Mk2, Warmachine, Hordes, Prime... What's the deal? Are they all part of one game? Are they all variants? What's the difference between Warmachine and Hordes?
My second question then is, if I'm going to start this game, what all do I need to buy? Which books, which supplements, what's a standardized points level to play with and roughly how many models do I need to buy for that? And considering I'm going to play Cryx, which units are really good, really bad, etc.? I swear, looking at Warmachine from the outside I'm more confused than I ever was looking at Warhammer. With Warhammer it seemed fairly simple: buy this rulebook, this codex, and these 2 or 3 boxes of models... (plus assembly materials/paint)

Well then,

Warmachine and Hordes are two compatible game systems. Warmachine obviously deals with warcaster and warjacks, whereas Hordes deals with warlocks and warbeasts. They share the same core rules, but focus and fury are two different game mechanics which separate the games. The objective of WM/H is to kill the opposing Warcaster or Warlock

Both games have transitioned into MKII (in essence, 2nd edition if you will) However, Hordes has yet to have the finalized rulebook out, which is out either this month or next, IIRC. MKI was the first version of the game, which is no longer the standard.

What you need to buy is a different question entirely. What kind of play-style are you interested in for Cryx? Army of hard-hitting elites? Hordes of cheap re-summonable troops? Sneaky assassination list?

Hey MasterDRD, welcome to the Iron Kingdoms.

If fluff interests you, I hear the just released Forces of Warmachine Cryx book has tons of fluff. In addition, the Guts and Gears podcast episode on the book has an interview with Doug Seacat(Privateer Press's lore guy) that goes into the fluff of the Nightmare Empire.

As for what you need, you need the MKII Rulebook, templates(either photocopied from the book or purchased) and the Cyrx deck(make sure it's the 2010 deck. Some of the old ones are still in the wild.). While the Forces of Warmachine: Cryx book is optional but stilla source for fluff, artwork, and some newly released models.

Alright, that clears up a lot of my confusion, thanks. Still not entirely solid on the Warmachine/Hordes thing and how exactly it affects the game though...
As for playstyle, I'm not entirely certain yet. I'll probably experiment a lot with that. I do think I'll try to use Terminus though, since I have the model already. (and since it looks so very sweet!) Other models I'm interested in are the big jacks like Deathjack and Nightmare, and infantry like Bane Thralls/Knights. I've read from various forums etc. that mechanithralls and pistol wraiths are very good for their points.

Warmachine and Hordes are basically the same game, except different factions. The only rules difference between the two is the fury/focus mechanic. Both games are compatible, so I can run a Skorne army and play against Cryx for example. They're two seperate games that share the same rules, the only difference is how the Warcaster and Warlock interact with their Warbeasts/Wajacks (Warcasters allocate their focus points, Warlocks leach their fury)

Warmachine's MKII Quick-Start rules (Really basic rules) are available at PP's site. They're great for getting the basics of the game, and it'll help you understand how the game works.

As for units, Terminus is great for keeping your undead around for a while. He confers Tough (Which is basically a 5+ "Save" if you will) onto any friendly undead models within his command range. He's quite good in combat as well (He IS a large model, obviously) He especially likes enemy infantry, because he can gain benefits from killing them, which shouldn't be hard for him. Mechanithralls are great, but you'll want to take a Necrosurgeon to keep 'em around for a bit (They're not too hard to remove) I have no experience with Bane Knights, but Bane Thralls are absolutely fun, and are a solid choice. They hit like a ton of bricks, are harder to shoot at, and can hurt enemy Warjacks/beasts and infantry alike. Pistol Wraiths I've had no experience with, but I would still reccommend.

Terminus's style:

Swarms of infantry dying all around him until he can gather up the resources
or opportunity to charge in and handle the enemy himself.

As far as models, do you recommend getting the Cryx starter box or not? As in, would I be better served learning how to play with that box, or by getting a few other sets instead? And as far as warcasters go, in smaller points levels would I be better served using Asphyxious, or Deneghra, or even the new one, Venethrax? Or is Terminus still viable at lower levels?

The box is a pretty good deal cost wise, and Deneghra is pretty much the archetypical Cryx caster: Lots of debuffs, and reliant on arcing spells through bone chickens. The Slayer's a lot better than it was MkI, too. Only problem is that all the rules you'll get with 'em will be MkI, as Privateer discontinued the starter sets with MkII.

Most of the casters are pretty viable at lower point levels, although Terminus can struggle without a nice large meatshield. While I haven't had the pleasure of getting my face beaten in by Venethrax yet, he looks to be a nice beatstick caster, which typically works rather well at the 15-25 point level. Gaspy is another go-to for lower point games, as his feat makes for a pretty mean assassination run, be it via Hellfire spam or a dozen sticks to the face.

I'd say that for "lower" levels (which is basically 15-25) Deneghra will be the best choice. She can do incredibly well with only 2-3 bonejacks. Then is pAsphyxious ("p" stands for "Prime" i.e. non-epic version). Terminus and Venethrax both require certain models/units to get to the peak of their power so it's a bit hard to squeeze everything necessary under 35 points.

What exactly is a bonechicken? I've heard that terminology tossed around a lot but I don't know what models it's referring to...

As far as models go, I'm interested in getting the 2 biggest jacks, Nightmare and the Deathjack. But should I hold off on getting those for higher points levels?

Well you are a newbie after my own heart. I started playing because of Terminus as well. He is just too awesome and the idea of a giant lich with wings being under my control for a battle was too much to resist.

If you want to field both Nightmare and Deathjack in the same list there are really only two Warcasters that would do that well. Epic Skarre, and Mortenebra. In a 50 point list either Denegrah, or Epic Denegrah could also get away with it.

Basically different warcasters get a one shot special ability, called a feat, and this feat is generally what you build you army around. For terminous he needs a bunch of infintry because when he feats he gains souls from dead enemy models, so for him flooding the board with a bunch of stuff is what gets mileage out of his feat.

Epic Skarres feat is to make 5 individual models invulnrable for a turn, so this lends itself to a small group of hard hitters, Mortenebra is a special case, she has quite a few good spells that get good mileage on warjacks, her feat lets her jacks re-roll attack and damage rolls. They both also get a spell that will give thier Jacks extra movement.

You want to build a small list first to learn with, and a great starting list would be:
Epic Skarre
Deathjack
Nightmare
Deathripper (bonejack/bonechicken)
Deathripper

This is a little bigger than the normal 15 point starting force, it's 25 instead. But would still be fine to learn with. It's basic stratagy would be to put down admonition on the Nightmare and Death Ward on the Deathjack and advance and use the Nightmares extra free move to get in thier face, if he gets charged he can just run away with admonition. Once you are fairly close you feat and then arc perdition through the nodes and charge with your warjacks, from there it should be game over.

After that you could build twords this 35 point list for terminus:

Lich Lord Terminus
Stalker
Bane Thralls (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Bane Thrall Officer & Standard
Mechanithralls (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Brute Thrall
Mechanithralls (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Necrosurgeon & 3 Stitch Thralls
Necrosurgeon & 3 Stitch Thralls
Bane Lord Tartarus
General Gerlak Slaughterborn
Madelyn Corbeau, Ordic Courtesan

You can see that this is a much more expensive list, with a ton of infintry and almost no warjacks. Terminus unfortunatly dosen't like to use either the Deathjack or Nightmare, and if you did want to run a heavy warjack the best choice is either a Seether, or the Mercenary pair of a giant Aligator and his buddy (Snapjaw and Wrongeye). This is because a large based warcaster like Terminus is easy to hit with attacks, so as he advances he has to hold all of his spell points (focus) to make him harder to damage. If he was giving his focus to warjacks it would open him to attack. Small based warcasters don't have this problem since they can hide behind troops or thier own warjacks.

MasterDRD wrote:What exactly is a bonechicken? I've heard that terminology tossed around a lot but I don't know what models it's referring to...

The cryxian arcnodes are commonly nicknamed "bonechickens". If you take a look at their models you'll see why
And fluff-wise they're partially built of magically hardened bones.

MasterDRD wrote:As far as models go, I'm interested in getting the 2 biggest jacks, Nightmare and the Deathjack. But should I hold off on getting those for higher points levels?

DJ is 12 points, Nightmare - 10. Definitely not advised below 35.

PM me your email and I will forward you the PDF of the legally released rules for Warmachine and Hordes MK2.

Some of the core-rules changed from the PDF they released and the final Rulebook for Warmachine, but the Hordes rules are final until the new book is released.

I can also send you the stat cards for each faction. They have since released new models/units that aren't in these PDF's (they only put out rules for units that were out in the MK1 time frame), but it really helps you get a feel for each faction.

Your best bet is to find a FLGS and speak to your local Press Ganger or the guys who play WM and get a demo game to really explain the rules and try it out. Small quick games are the best way to learn, and it's a lot of fun.

The only thing I can tell you is that the game is brutal and you will lose quite a bit while learning to play as protecting yourself from a variety of angles is key.

Yeah at my FLGS most of the older regulars play Warmachine, I'll be trying to convert the younger ones too. Just to clarify, I don't necessarily intend to use both of the big unique jacks at the same time... I just like both models and probably will try to use at least 1 in any given list (barring smaller games or eksperumentashun...)
I have a few other questions. 1st, people always refer to the points costs in single and double digits, but in some places I've seen 350 or 3500 instead of 35 as it's used here. Is it an unofficial dropping of the extra zero(es), or was it changed from mk1 to mk2? Also, similar to the pistol wraith, I've heard a lot of support for the Cankerworm, with one guy on the warmachine wiki even claiming that "every Cryx army should take one." Is it really that good?

On a side note, here is the #1 suggestion for enjoying Warmachine and playing it for a long time: make sure your faction has at least two or three Warcasters you like, and switch them up from time to time. They're 10 bucks each, and can really change the entire feel of your army.

I don't know about play styles, but off the top of my head I could probably name the majority of the Cryx casters as models I very much like. For example, the new Venethrax guy looks amazing. The only thing that might limit his use is that he seems more geared towards fighting Hordes armies, so I don't quite know how much use he'll be vs straight up Warmachine. (question mark?)
I have another question I just thought of, on top of my previous 2: can the Mercenaries models be used in any army? What's the rules for that?

MasterDRD wrote:I don't know about play styles, but off the top of my head I could probably name the majority of the Cryx casters as models I very much like. For example, the new Venethrax guy looks amazing. The only thing that might limit his use is that he seems more geared towards fighting Hordes armies, so I don't quite know how much use he'll be vs straight up Warmachine. (question mark?)
I have another question I just thought of, on top of my previous 2: can the Mercenaries models be used in any army? What's the rules for that?

Venethrax vs. Warmachine

His soul generating spell is pretty awesome when cast on a Cryxian unit of
infantry. Warmachine armies can get pretty thick infantry-wise, so you're good
aside from the undead models.

All mercs will say on their cards who they can work for, which isn't overly helpful if you don't already know who'll work for your faction. If you know someone who plays mercs or don't mind investing in a merc faction deck, that should give you an idea of what they're used for. Not many work for Cryx, something about getting souls eaten or whatever, but there are a few good ones.

MasterDRD wrote:I have a few other questions. 1st, people always refer to the points costs in single and double digits, but in some places I've seen 350 or 3500 instead of 35 as it's used here. Is it an unofficial dropping of the extra zero(es), or was it changed from mk1 to mk2?

The latter. Current 35pt format is roughly equivalent of 500 in Mk. I.

MasterDRD wrote:Also, similar to the pistol wraith, I've heard a lot of support for the Cankerworm, with one guy on the warmachine wiki even claiming that "every Cryx army should take one." Is it really that good?

That's the problem with Battlecollege being a "wiki". You should always take what you may read there with a grain of salt. Especially when there's something about rules interpretation or so-called "must haves". No doubt Cankerworm IS a great light warjack and I'll strongly recommend you to buy it. However it's definitely NOT a "must have" one.

MasterDRD wrote:I don't know about play styles, but off the top of my head I could probably name the majority of the Cryx casters as models I very much like. For example, the new Venethrax guy looks amazing. The only thing that might limit his use is that he seems more geared towards fighting Hordes armies, so I don't quite know how much use he'll be vs straight up Warmachine. (question mark?)
I have another question I just thought of, on top of my previous 2: can the Mercenaries models be used in any army? What's the rules for that?

Venethrax works fine vs. Warmachine. He is also kind of like Terminus though, in that he loves infintry and dosen't really like jacks, but he can certainly do fine with either Deathjack or Nightmare. He tends to like quick infintry though, and there is a particular pair of soloes that you really need to take in his lists, Gerlak Slaughterborn and Madlyn Corbu. You can do without them certainly but they really help his lists. A good 35 point list for him might be:

Lich Lord Venethrax
Deathjack
Bane Thralls (Leader and 5 Grunts)
Bane Thrall Officer & Standard
Satyxis Raiders (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Satyxis Raider Sea Witch
Bane Lord Tartarus
General Gerlak Slaughterborn
Madelyn Corbeau, Ordic Courtesan
Satyxis Captain

Common Mercs that you would want to buy are:
Gorman Dewolf
Madelyn Corbeau
Orin Midwinter

And maybe Celena Rayfell and the Nyss hunters if you like the models.

Alright so after about an hour of math-hammering (machining?) I've come up with a list of items I'll be able to purchase from an eBay store (new, in box, at a discount, with only $3 shipping for the whole shebang!) for about $250. I won't even try to compile a price for all this at market price... So to those of you in the know about Cryx, would you say this is a good buy list to kick off my intro to Warmachine with a bang?
Iron Lich Asphyxious, Lich Lord Venethrax, Pirate Queen Skarre, Goreshade the Bastard, Cryx Battlegroup, Mechanithrall Unit, Necrosurgeon/Stitch Thrall, Brute Thrall, Pistol Wraith, Withershadow Combine, Cankerworm, Seether, Nightmare, Mk2 Rulebook, Mk2 Cryx Card Deck. As well as the Terminus I already have, and barring the templates/counters/paints, is this a good buy to kick things off? Anything I should leave out? I would have bought Bane Thralls too, but that would be a bit too much on top of everything else.
Opinions? (for reference, I only get about $300 to spend per month after taking care of necessities, so I'd like to not spend more than I'm already planning to... (and I'm already pushing it! I may have to leave out a couple things when it comes down to it.)

I am going to split out what you will get in order to better answer (you should use spaces and breaks...)

Casters:
- Iron Lich Asphyxious
- Lich Lord Venethrax
- Pirate Queen Skarre
- Goreshade the Bastard
- Deneghra (from battlegroup)

Jacks:
- 2 deathrippers (battlegroup)
- 1 defiler (battlegroup)
- Cankerworm
- Slayer (battlegroup)
- Seether
- Nightmare

Units:
- Mechanithrall Unit
-- Brute Thrall
- Necrosurgeon/Stitch Thrall
- Withershadow Combine

Solo's:
- Pistol Wraith

Extra's
Mk2 Rulebook, Mk2 Cryx Card Deck

I think you will have enough casters. Only thing you really need would be a minimum unit of banethralls for Goreshades feat. they are very good however, so they will pop up in more lists IMHO...

After that I would suggest get some more troops. With the banes it is still pretty barebones minimum. A second unit of thralls for terminus would be excellent, as he needs the fodder. For solo's I would take a look at The warwitch siren. she is a very nice solo to add to the lists that can be made. Also the Skarlock might be a fine addition.

For now this is the best advice I can give as IMHO all things in the list are solid and while not using everything at once normally it is a very good start on a big army. It just needs some more troops and solo's...

I think it's called TheoryMachine in Warmachine .

Wow. Big purchase.
I can't say much about it.

I buy things bit by bit. The Rulebook and Deck are a no-brainer. The starting box is nice too.

Anything else is really up to you, I suggest getting what you need for a 15 point game (starter box and rulebook).

Get at least one game before new purchases, it may skew you to get something you more desire after a handful of games.

Maybe you may consider adding a Skarlock Thrall to the list? It is a very useful utility solo that can save you A LOT of focus with some casters.

Yeah, since you can't use Goreshade anyway, a Skarlock would be a good way to go instead.

LordRavurion brings up a good point, you will need a unit of bane thralls to go with goreshade. he has a hidden price tag to go along with his feat. its probably best to wait on him until your second phase when you can afford the thralls.

Too many Warcasters, not enough units IMHO. I would say pick one that you like (fluff, looks, play style, whatever. they're all fairly well balanced), and learn to use him and build an army for him. Then as you learn how it all works on the table, you can start to get more casters and add what you need to for them to work well.

Even inside the same faction, just changing the army's general can make a HUGE difference in how the army plays.

By dropping Goreshade and Skarre I can afford another box of Mechanithralls, though I won't have another surgeon... If I drop the Brute Thrall too I can afford the 2nd surgeon. Alternately, by dropping Nightmare I could get a Bane Thralls box, but not the Officer/Standard Bearer, or I could drop Goreshade, Skarre, and Nightmare to get the Bane Thrall box and the Officer/Standard Bearer box. Which way would be best?

I donno, some people (me) almost never play the same warcaster twice in a row. And for me I did terribly when I first started until I switched from Denegrah to Asphixus. So I think having all those casters is a boon, you can just switch around until you find the one you like the best, and you'll learn a lot while doing it.

It's only me and my opinion is based heavily on my own preferences of the playing style but I'll suggest:

MasterDRD wrote:I could drop Goreshade, Skarre, and Nightmare to get the Bane Thrall box and the Officer/Standard Bearer box.