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< taken by the void dragon >

You just use the strength of the inquisitor(lord) for assualt i suppose
Maybe he is a ninja or knows kung-fu

take an inquisitor with dual plasma pistols, and the hammerhand psychic power...

go all f'in equillibrium on their asses.

< taken by the void dragon >

I seem to recall it being said somewhere that if the unit does not have a CCW explicitly stated, you should assume it's fighting with rifle butt, fists, kicking, teeth, etc. This for all intents and purposes counts as a CCW. Unfortunately unable to verify now. I'll take a look later.

< taken by the void dragon >

I guess that the model with no weapons either uses martial arts or picks up a rock to hit people over the head with. In a much more complex game system, every different weapon would do different effects. But to streamline the game sometimes detail needs to be cut to make the game flow faster and play quicker. Having every model able to fight at the basic level on their profile without any special rules or penalties makes the game faster.

Pg 42, BRB, gives the distinct impression that all models are assumed to have one (1) close combat weapon, which is assumed to be two-handed. If it has a shooting weapon, that weapon is also a CCW. If that shooting weapon is one-handed (i.e. a pistol), it's also a one-handed CCW.

Pg 47, BRB, does not give specific rules regarding independent characters need to have a weapon.

Pg 35, BRB, does make it a moot point, considering it states that everyone will attack in accordance to their characteristic profile, and any special wargear. All in all, as long as you have a number of attacks in your characteristic profile, you get to attack! Only zero (0) characteristic in WS or A will be unable to attack.

There are no penalties for not having a weapon, is the important thing. No rule saying you can't attack, no rule saying you suffer any penalty.

Attack in the usual initiative order, using the usual profile for the unit.

agreed. you just fight with the basic stats listed on your stat line and any special rules under your listing if applicable. i imagine you just fight dirtier... even an inquisitor lord isn't above kicking a cultist in the crotch!

Mahtamori wrote:Pg 35, BRB, does make it a moot point, considering it states that everyone will attack in accordance to their characteristic profile, and any special wargear. All in all, as long as you have a number of attacks in your characteristic profile, you get to attack! Only zero (0) characteristic in WS or A will be unable to attack.

And seconded. You need WS and A in order to fight a close combat. A weapon is not a prerequisite.

The game system is abstract enough that you don't count ammunition spent or grenades carried, why worry about a CCW? Someone like an Inquisitor (who has WS comparable to a Space Marine!) isn't helpless even if he doesn't carry any specific weapon. He's likely to know a trick or two. A DH Inq Lord in Terminator Armour can just step on your toes or ram you against a wall, I'm sure it will hurt!

Indeed.

many MCs don't have any weapons listed in their wargear either. Yet, they suffer no penelities. C'tan anyone?


It is kinda silly, but models with no weapons may still slap people around.


inquisitors will likely know some form of martial art.

everyone gets to fight with their basic profile wether they have a dedicated CCW or not.

the difference is stacking for the +1 attack, a dedicated CCW counts for that, while not being equiped with one doesnt.

I imagine an Inquisitor just says, "Jenkins, give me your rifle," and away he goes, happy as Larry.

Otherwise it will be improvised weapons, like a big hat, or fingernails and teeth.

If the model has no weapons he beats you to death with your own shoes.

The DoW Video game kinda implies everyone carries a big knife and they take it out and begin shaking each other. So I think it is assumed that every model has a base capacity to fight CC when they step on the battlefield in thier 1A attribute.

While the rules question has been answered 100% correctly, I would like to point out a current trend.

Look at the 5th edition Codexes. IIRC, other than Nids (who are a Speshul Case and have a Speshul rule), all units seem to be given some form of CCW, useful or not.

For example, an Imperial Guardman now has a CCW and a Lasgun, with no Options for a 2nd CCW to make the 1st one useful (the Sarge doesn't have a Lasgun and can't have one either!)

This hints to me that perhaps in 6th they are gonna make a distinction? Make it so walkers with no CCW left are lame ducks perhaps?

Or it might just be Robin Cruddace being an utter Plonker.

My money is on the 2nd tbfh.

It might be more of a shift back towards the 2nd edition codex books. More detailed than the 3rd and 4th edition ones with regard to wargear, but not crammed with army-specific but interchangable weaponry.

The more worrying trend is Cruddace's worsening rule text.

Actually, I just got done reading the first story in the IG omnibus. One of the guys in there bludgeons a gretchen to death with what he later realizes is his helmet. The helmet is very clearly the CCW Robin mentions in the codex.

In one of the American Civil War battles a rebel brigade ran out of ammo and started to use thrown rocks.

Just because you don't have a chainsaw doesn't mean you're going to stand there and take it on the chin when charged by the maniac who does.

Kilkrazy wrote:In one of the American Civil War battles a rebel brigade ran out of ammo and started to use thrown rocks.

And we wonder why they got stomped? (the fact aside that they were ideologically flawed.)

Kilkrazy wrote:In one of the American Civil War battles a rebel brigade ran out of ammo and started to use thrown rocks.

Ah yes, Second Bull Run. Stonewall Jackson, ordered to hold John Pope so Longstreet could march around the flank and tear him a new one, forms up his men in a railway cut and proceeds to keep Union troops pinned down in an open field until he is literally out of bullets. One can only assume that Pope's men were paralyzed with fear at the sight of Jackson's enormous balls.

Gwar! wrote:

This hints to me that perhaps in 6th they are gonna make a distinction? Make it so walkers with no CCW left are lame ducks perhaps?

that would be silly. as walkers will always have a base strength (5 most of the time)in order to double it for Dread CCW powerfisted at top strength, also it has it's base attacks, so your rifle dread can still defend itself if assaulted. although if it's assaulted by other marines those krak grenades will be annoying. that being said ive had a 10 man assault squad with no fists assault 3 killa kans and get wigled down to 2 of them left by end of game, by only losing 1 kan, successfully stopped them shooting, but also i had 1 less 18" assaulting squad to deal with!!

Gwar! wrote:Look at the 5th edition Codexes. IIRC, other than Nids (who are a Speshul Case and have a Speshul rule), all units seem to be given some form of CCW, useful or not.

For example, an Imperial Guardman now has a CCW and a Lasgun, with no Options for a 2nd CCW to make the 1st one useful (the Sarge doesn't have a Lasgun and can't have one either!)

This hints to me that perhaps in 6th they are gonna make a distinction? Make it so walkers with no CCW left are lame ducks perhaps?

Or it might just be Robin Cruddace being an utter Plonker.

My money is on the 2nd tbfh.

I think they're just trying to add thematic detail, without cluttering
up actual gameplay. Does it matter that the Guardsman has a knife?
No, since he can't take another CCW, and can't lose that knife. It
just explains his base attacks and adds some themery (Guard have
Knives, Marines have Pistols, etc), without slowing down or
complicating the game. Adding rules for losing those CCWs or
something like that aren't well suited for a game the size of 40k,
that's way too detailed. Basic variations besides that are best
handled just through the base stats, so I assume it's basically just
fluff.

I believe there is a phrase in the rule book covering this, something under the line of "a model without CCW's fights with whatever is at hand- teeth, claws, punches...even a simple rock can be a deadly weapon in a swirling melee!"

You might have a sword, but we both have the same reaction time- you might think otherwise, but if unarmed inquisitor hurls a rock at sword armed inquisitor and scones him, he could probably disarm him and use the sword against him.

Rocks is deadly- didn't you guys learn this when you were kids?

Personally, I would like to see an inquisitor armed with a blessed feather take down a bloodthirster - WITH PURE AWESOMNESS

I'll have to see if you can give a Naked Inquisitor a blessed or Annointed weapon(the weapon in question being his mad judo skills)

maybe you can Mastercraft his fists



Edit: just checked. since the BRB says a model will fight with fists, nails, claws if it has nothing. i would say you could as it will still fight with a "Weapon" of sorts. Maybe model him with Brass Knuckles.

thats effectively what you do with space marine.

I mean, they say you fight with a small combat blade, but hell, where is it?

actually you bash their brains out with your fists and that little Bolt pistol of yours. (Can't tell you how long it took for many people to realize SMs had BPs )

He uses his spork that was in his rations...