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How far do you suppose a dropped power weapon would go?

Let's say an officer is using a power sword and he's killed mid fight. The sword falls to the ground still active because he hasn't pressed the rune to turn it off. Unless it's got a large enough guard on the handle to catch it, I'm guessing that it would keep eating through the earth until it either ran out of power or hit some lava and was destroyed; thoughts?

On a similar note, how are power fists activated because if someone using one of those had their arm chopped off then could it be that nothing would stop it eating its way through a building, space ship decks etc.

Without the force to push it, it would quickly stop. It would probably leave a mark where a normal sword wouldn't, but just because power swords can cut through armour easier than normal weaponry doesn't mean that they automatically cut through everything like a lightsabre would.

It disrupts molecular bonds apparently so it effectively disintergrates what it touches, why would it quickly stop?

If you rest a hot knife on butter it will still go through the butter, stopping only because the knife eventually loses too much heat to continue melting the butter. Why wouldn't a power weapon have the same effect?

Because they're seemingly made with dead man's switches.

Y'know, where they turn off when pressure is released?

Plus, the blade is the only part that's "sheathed" in energy. Once it's sunk a bit in, it'll just stop.

Even if it was dropped straight down, it would stop at the hilt as that bit isn't wreathed in the power field. It would most likely just scratch the ground or get part of the blade embedded in it, depending on the violence of the wielder's death and how he was holding it.

Wouldn't it make sense that if no pressure was applied, it wouldn't cut anything?

Pressure switch as a safety feature is a good concept, you wouldn't want your sword activating while it was swinging on your hip.

cadbren wrote:Pressure switch as a safety feature is a good concept, you wouldn't want your sword activating while it was swinging on your hip.

That would be pretty funny. Commissar walking in front of the parade line, stubs his toe and suddenly his power sword has cut its way out of its sheath.

The Dizzler wrote:Even if it was dropped straight down, it would stop at the hilt as that bit isn't wreathed in the power field. It would most likely just scratch the ground or get part of the blade embedded in it, depending on the violence of the wielder's death and how he was holding it.

For most yes, but there are swords that have next to no hilt and I wasn't sure how far the effective field around the weapon was. If Eisenhorn can effectively have a light sabre then it would suggest the field doesn't have to correspond to the physical dimensions of the base weapon. In such a case the blade might carve a large enough hole for even the hilt to fall into.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Azariah Kyras wrote:

cadbren wrote:Pressure switch as a safety feature is a good concept, you wouldn't want your sword activating while it was swinging on your hip.

That would be pretty funny. Commissar walking in front of the parade line, stubs his toe and suddenly his power sword has cut its way out of its sheath.

I assume you've seen the youtube clip of the cop giving the demo about firearms safety, he ends up shooting himself in the foot in a room full of people.

For the record, lightsabers require pressure to cut with their blades. Eventually inertia will stop the blade from cutting into the ground.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

cadbren wrote: I assume you've seen the youtube clip of the cop giving the demo about firearms safety, he ends up shooting himself in the foot in a room full of people.

Yeah I have. I never really believed that video could have been real but it still is funny to watch.

Yes, but IF something is capable of disintegrating, melting, or otherwise annihilating the ground beneath it, then gravity itself is applying the pressure. On a ship, I think it would stop once it hit whatever kind of plating the builders used to give it artificial gravity. On a planet, if the hilt didn't catch it (if it was smaller than the blade, AND the sword fell in the right direction) it would keep sinking.

However, I don't think this would happen, for two reasons. First, the sword would have to be dropped STRAIGHT down. Otherwise, the rotation of the blade in mid-fall would cause the hilt to get stuck in the dirt, rock, or what have you. (Because it would turn to some side, and probably lodge enough to withstand the minimal pull of gravity.) Even if that DIDN'T happen, I assume as well that the switch (rune, toggle) that you hit to activate the blade is something you have to KEEP pressed down. Ergo, it turns off when you let it go. I wager power fists are designed the same way.

Powerfields disrupt the molecular bonds

they do NOT move the molecules themselves

so nothing would happen as the molecules simply keep the sword from going through.



if ANY thing happened it would be very small movement towards the Gravity fields center. probably a few atoms at a time so the sword would run out of juice before it got very far.

Kanluwen wrote:Because they're seemingly made with dead man's switches.

Y'know, where they turn off when pressure is released?

Plus, the blade is the only part that's "sheathed" in energy. Once it's sunk a bit in, it'll just stop.

WIN

cadbren wrote:How far do you suppose a dropped power weapon would go?

All the way to the center of this thread, causing it to die, early and young, before its full potential (!) could be realized...???

Seriously - the things you kids think of!

I think the answers so far have been, for the most part, well thought out - and probably 'true' enough...

Actually, there's something that's been missing. The OP argument is implying that there's something to the weapon that makes it just glide through anything. Were this true, then power weapons would automatically wound as all the wielder would need to do is swing it and it would go through both power armor and person (or tank armor, for that matter) just as easily as it would go through air.

But no, you have to roll based on your strength. This means that the blade is actually making contact with something solid and not just passing through instantly. Otherwise marines and guardsmen would wound just as easily because it would be the sword doing the work, not the wielder. The fact that tanks require strength in order to be penetrated and the fact that power weapons do nothing to tanks only further points to this fact.

No, power weapons are, for all intents and purposes, just like a regular sword. The only real difference is that they give you a very slight amount of "free" penetration, allowing them to pass through infantry armor. As such, a power weapon would sink into the ground by exactly as much as the distance from the blade itself to the edge of the disruption field, which, if I recall correctly, isnt' very far.

In Fulgrim the power swords during the duels simply fell onto the ground like a normal sword.

Perhaps once it isn't griped the energy field shuts off?

I think the safety switch is a good idea. Just as Eldar power weapons have wraithbone tage specific to the user. Only activated when the user picks it up

Grey Templar wrote:Powerfields disrupt the molecular bonds

they do NOT move the molecules themselves

Yeah. If it worked on the atomic level... well, I don't think causing nuclear fission every time you swing your sword would be that healthy for the user.

Melissia wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Powerfields disrupt the molecular bonds

they do NOT move the molecules themselves

Yeah. If it worked on the atomic level... well, I don't think causing nuclear fission every time you swing your sword would be that healthy for the user.

But it would be really really cool!

Grey Templar wrote:Powerfields disrupt the molecular bonds

they do NOT move the molecules themselves

so nothing would happen as the molecules simply keep the sword from going through.



if ANY thing happened it would be very small movement towards the Gravity fields center. probably a few atoms at a time so the sword would run out of juice before it got very far.

If the molecular bonds are disrupted they cease being molecules and become free atoms, most of which will be gas.

I like the idea of it burning through the ground

Kilkrazy wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Powerfields disrupt the molecular bonds

they do NOT move the molecules themselves

so nothing would happen as the molecules simply keep the sword from going through.



if ANY thing happened it would be very small movement towards the Gravity fields center. probably a few atoms at a time so the sword would run out of juice before it got very far.

If the molecular bonds are disrupted they cease being molecules and become free atoms, most of which will be gas.

not always.

if it is cutting through steel it will leave behind Iron and Carbon, both will be in solid form.

in the ground, assuming there aren't any wierd elements in the soil, Sand(which is mostly silicon anyway) will become elemental silicon, organic compounds will become Carbon and whatever other elements will be present(some will become gas, but many will remain solid)


Molecular bonds are also the bonds beween Molecules not only the Atomic bonds between atoms.


Many common molecules join each other naturally so they may be disrupted in the presense of the powerfield, but will rejoin as soon as the field leaves.

Grey Templar wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Powerfields disrupt the molecular bonds

they do NOT move the molecules themselves

so nothing would happen as the molecules simply keep the sword from going through.



if ANY thing happened it would be very small movement towards the Gravity fields center. probably a few atoms at a time so the sword would run out of juice before it got very far.

If the molecular bonds are disrupted they cease being molecules and become free atoms, most of which will be gas.

not always.

if it is cutting through steel it will leave behind Iron and Carbon, both will be in solid form.

in the ground, assuming there aren't any wierd elements in the soil, Sand(which is mostly silicon anyway) will become elemental silicon, organic compounds will become Carbon and whatever other elements will be present(some will become gas, but many will remain solid)


Molecular bonds are also the bonds beween Molecules not only the Atomic bonds between atoms.


Many common molecules join each other naturally so they may be disrupted in the presense of the powerfield, but will rejoin as soon as the field leaves.

While I agree with this in base theory there are 2 major points you are missing.

1)When Molecular bonds are broken potential energy is released in the form of heat(and often Light) This is because when a stable bond between two(or more) atoms becomes broken from some outside force the electrons shared by those atoms are still trying to bond both atoms, and will often be torn free from both, creating free electrons and Ionized variant atoms of the individual types. This heat could be great enough to send any matter into its Gaseous state(all elements have a gaseous state, it is just the amount of energy required to get most of it there is often bordering on the ridiculous)

2)If the field is breaking apart atoms at the molecular level those atoms will not be instantly bonding into large portions of their natural elemental states; they will be Vaporized and as such technically becoming a Gas(Actually a Solution with the Air itself acting as the Solute, and whatever atomized element acting as the Soluble).

If that were the case, humans outside of power armor would be unable to effectively use power weapons (They can).

energy is indeed released, but it isn't enough to be a danger.

the crackling effect on power weapons is the released energy.


it is greater when cutting through solid matter, but the generated heat and light are likely limited to the area around the blade so it isn't a hazard to unprotected humans wielding them.


do you feel the heat? yes! is it dangerous? not any more then a normal weapon that has been in use a while(the sword has time to cool in the air before it is hot enough to cause damage)

Right, but what I was referring to was the post suggesting that power weapons vaporized their targets.

That would be inherently dangerous to the wielder.

I know.

they do Vaporise their target, but only a small portion at most(that which is cut through)

Can someone with a power weapon walk up to a tank and write their name into the hull (by eating though the plate, not just surface stratches) as quickly as if they were using a paint brush?

If the area touching the field is vapourised then why not as this would mean that there is no pressure being put on the sides of the blade (a power sword in this example) as any target material that comes into contact with the field vapourises.

At what point then does strength become a factor as the blade isn't relying on force being applied along a narrow edge but on a power field that simply breaks the bonds of the target material?

the idea is that the power field only disrupts enough molecular bonds to make it through a relativly thin layer of armor.

so a guy could write his name on a tank, but it would take quite abit of effort to get all the way through.

Grey Templar wrote:the idea is that the power field only disrupts enough molecular bonds to make it through a relativly thin layer of armor.

so a guy could write his name on a tank, but it would take quite abit of effort to get all the way through.

Which is Why they do nothing extra against Tank's armor(even though Power armor is effectively Tank Armor itself; as an anti-tank missile is AP 3)

Power weapons could be considered AP2 as they can cut through the heaviest of troop armor(termies), but are not themselves strong enough to slice through even ramshackle ork vehicle armor(AV10). While they do disrupt the Armor, it is certainly the trooper carrying them that must force the Blade through the disrupted armor; and if that trooper is not strong enough to sink the blade into the Armor(or use considerable force upon the ground) then the Blade will bounce off(or rest on the ground) like nothing ever happened.

Melissa; If your comment was referring to my post; it was to correct Grey templar on the Physics of molecular bond breaking, and the 2 resultant views as to what would happen in the (very) localized area. I.E. that you would not wind up with appreciable amounts of base elements when the power field disrupts the molecular bonds(and then the physical blade breaks those bonds).

From everything we know about what a Power weapon does(especially as we do not know HOW a PW does it) the energy field would probably only be about a Micron "thick" (that is to say 1 Micron around the weapon) and the energy released by the subsequent impact and breaking of molecular bonds(near instantaneous to the contact of the field) would be extremely localized, and very short lived(excepting in the Case of a Thunder hammer which seems to have some sort of impact trigger discharge). Power Swords/Axes still need to be Sharp to cut; the power feild just makes it even easier to cut. I think of it as being similar to other Sci-fi genres "vibro-blades" the hypersonic oscillation of the blade means that while the blade seems to be a solid, unmoving, peice of solid metal the impact of the blade also creates a sawing action that increases it's ability to cut. that said A vibro-blade would be MORE destructive in most cases than a power weapon as the slightest amount of pressure from one of those would sink the blade fairly deep, vs the power weapon that need more than just the wieght of the blade to make a significant cut.

Also the Case of a power weapon "crackling with energy" could be easily explained with the disruption-and-subsequent-breaking of molecular bonds theory, as the air is (as we all know) made up of molecules and the destruction of those bonds is going to release "free electrons" that are going to seek their way back to the broken molecules in an attempt to balance their Charges. This is a form of Static discharge which of course Crackles audibly, and generates a blue light.