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I just had a really ridiculous argument with another Guard player and frankly my need to be right has lead me to posting this topic. He believes an entire Infantry Platoon from the Imperial Guard codex is a single unit, which to me is preposterous as it states in the rulebook that units are squads and therefore a platoon is made up of several units. His defense consisted simply of the wording for reserve rolls and Force Oganization included on the page dealing with Infantry Platoons.

Am I right or is he?

Okay, I always regret answering these first because there are always about ten dudes after me that slap me down...Gwar...I'm looking at you here!

Anyway, as far as I know, for the purposes of reserves then anything in an infantry platoon would count as a single unit when you rolled for reserves, so it would all come at the same time. That being said, within the platoon, each squad is a seperate unit, although I believe that they might have to come in together. If they didn't then on a single reserve roll, you could deploy a huge range of troops all over the field.

As far as being deployed at the beginning though, they can go wherever they are legally allowed to be set up, so no, not as a single unit all together.

It actually sounds like you were arguing about whether its a troop choice...or rather...he was...

Anyway, that's what I've got...now for the inevitable rebuttal!

Oh I totally understand that they come on together for reserves. My chief point in the argument is that the constituent divisions of a platoon are, in fact, seperate units as the rulebook, I believe, clearly states that 'units' is jargon for squads or squadrons.

creeping-deth87 wrote:Oh I totally understand that they come on together for reserves. My chief point in the argument is that the constituent divisions of a platoon are, in fact, seperate units as the rulebook, I believe, clearly states that 'units' is jargon for squads or squadrons.

What're you asking exactly?

Are you asking, does 1 infantry platoon (ie., 1 Platoon command, 2-5 infantry squads, 0-5 heavy weapon squads, 0-2 special weapons squads) count as 1 unit for setting up? For instance, you put 20 infantry down, 2 lascannon teams and a platoon command squad?

I don't believe so.

The platoon squad is separate. The infantry is separate but may be blobbed together (only with other infantry - to illustrate this point, the codex even disqualifies conscripts, veterans, heavy- and special-weapons teams from joining), the special-weapons teams are separate and the heavy-weapons teams are separate. They are bought as a single "infantry platoon" and they are rolled for collectively on the reserves chart, but other than that, they're separate units, as far as I understand.

They are seperate units except for rolling on reserves and for the FOC.

Considering the Infantry Squad has a special rule that allows them AND ONLY THEM to join together as a single unit instead of being separate units, you are right and he is wrong.

xxBlazinGhostxx wrote:They are seperate units except for rolling on reserves and for the FOC.

Not quite. They are a single CHOICE on the FOC but *never* a single unit. Meaning for DoW you can still only put sngle squads on the board, not the whole platoon.

@OP

Why don't you go back and edit the original post to reflect what you are really asking?

You know, all the stuff and the situations that came up that you KNOW about and we are GUESSING at.

A platoon can indeed be one unit.
A platoon can also be several units.
And guess what....It can be something in between too.

It all depends on the situation. None of which you have be kind enough to specify.
As a rule I would start by saying that you were wrong, if only because you expect us to be able to mind-read what you meant.

A platoon can NEVER be one unit as you have to have a PCS and an infantry squad, so a minimum of 2.

You missed the point of my post.

nosferatu1001 wrote:A platoon can NEVER be one unit as you have to have a PCS and an infantry squad, so a minimum of 2.

Actually, minimum of 3. Minimum 2 infantry squads.

The two infantry squads can blob.

Your post was incorrect, meaning the point was entirely redundant.

The OP is right: they are always multiple units.

This is all very interesting as i have asked in games workshop several times about how al reaheim or whatever his name effects a platoon because he allows the platoon to out flank but do you roll for each unit in the platoon so you will probably outflank on many sides or does the platoon come on all together in the outflank.

and also if i have a platoon can i seperate it into different units for deployment i.e. 2 infantry squads in 2 vendettas in reserve whuile i have a pcs and a couple of heavy weapons teams on the board at deployment? and if mixed with alreaheim can the vendettas outflank seperately with the infantry squads.

Page 96 of the Iggy Codex

each infantry platoon counts as a single troops choice in the FoC WHEN DEPLOYING and is rolled for as one when rolling for reserves

you can still target the individual squads and they all award kill points.

the only exception to this is the "combined squad" rule on page 37

infantry squads (only infantry, not conscripts, etc.) have the option of forming a combined squad. for example, a platoon can go from one command squad and 3 ten man infantry squad, to a command squad and one 30 man infantry squad (or a 10 and 20 man). Once combined they count as one unit, and can not separate for the remainder of the game

so yes he is right

nosferatu1001 wrote:Your post was incorrect, meaning the point was entirely redundant.

The OP is right: they are always multiple units.

I can't tell if there is a personal aspect in what you are saying here.

I believe that the Reserve rules consistently refer to "Units".
As the Platoon has a set of special rules allowing it (the Platoon) to be rolled for together, I believe that it is OK to say that in the Reserve situation the Platoon is indeed one unit.....at least in the case of determining when it will arrive.

Also that wasn't the point of my post.
My point was to ask the OP to be a bit more specific as to which situations his question applied to.

My "one unit"-situation was as mentioned above.
My "several units"-situation was in reference to shooting, for example.
My "In between"-situation was in reference to Combined Squads and the possibility of OP either having misunderstood his opponent or having failed to inform us of the situation in question.

I believe my post is correct and that my points still stand.

Okay, good, I'm glad almost everyone on here agrees that a platoon is actually made up of several units. Thank you Dakka!

fox40 wrote:This is all very interesting as i have asked in games workshop several times about how al reaheim or whatever his name effects a platoon because he allows the platoon to out flank but do you roll for each unit in the platoon so you will probably outflank on many sides or does the platoon come on all together in the outflank.

and also if i have a platoon can i seperate it into different units for deployment i.e. 2 infantry squads in 2 vendettas in reserve whuile i have a pcs and a couple of heavy weapons teams on the board at deployment? and if mixed with alreaheim can the vendettas outflank seperately with the infantry squads.

Does Al'rahems rules mention any exceptions to the normal (in this case Platoon) rules?

There is your answer.


The second issue you mention is a problem that has been discussed before on this very board.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

creeping-deth87 wrote:Okay, good, I'm glad almost everyone on here agrees that a platoon is actually made up of several units. Thank you Dakka!

Until you tell us the whole story, you cannot really be sure of that.

Could you please elaborate as to when the issue came up during the game.

Steelmage - nope,simply that you are wrong in your asswertion that they are ever one unit. The minimum number of units in a platoon is 2.

When rolling for reserves they count as one choice, and arrive together. At no point can that be equated to them being "one unit", as that is simply incorrect usage of the term, and causes confusion esp. when considering DoW deployment.

We weren't playing a game. We were discussing some house rules for a campaign we were planning and someone mentioned getting a free unit if they were defending a certain area, and the guy I began the argument with took this to mean he could get a free platoon because he believes they count as one unit. Which is preposterous, because as several people have already mentioned a platoon is at minium 3 seperate units.

Yep, in that case the the Platoon is definetly several units.


And Nosferartu, you get a "Sure, whatever" to take home.

Steelmage99 wrote:Yep, in that case the the Platoon is definetly several units.


And Nosferartu, you get a "Sure, whatever" to take home.

That is the best kind, considering he is right.

To confirm, yes, a Platoon is ALWAYS multiple units. A Minimum of Two and (iirc) a Maximum of 20.

Steelmage99 wrote:Yep, in that case the the Platoon is definetly several units.


And Nosferartu, you get a "Sure, whatever" to take home.

Hey, you were the one who had a problem with the OP being "imprecise", yet purveyed simply *wrong* and confusing information yourself.

Hoist and petard springs to mind.

I am sorry if it was confusing to you. I'll try to be more precise next time.

Consider the following exchange;

Player A: "I'm rolling for my Platoon to enter from Reserves".

*Rolls a single dice*

Player B: "Hey! Why don't you roll for each unit in the Platoon?"

Player A: "Oh, for the purposes of Reserves they just count as a single unit."



While they certainly are not a single unit in regards to any rules they can, in everyday conversation across the table, be talked about as being "one unit".
Since the OP wasn't more detailed in his question, I addressed the possibility that just such a situation could have occured.

Should you consider the above conversation as being completely beyond the realm of possibility, then OK.

Beyond that you utterly keeps missing the point.
While I might have asked him to clarify in rather longwinded manner, I atleast didn't try to derail the thread by stubbornly hanging on to a single insignificant detail of the question.

I am sure you cannot let this go, so you'll get a certified "+1 epeen" as winner of the interwebs as I am washing my hands of this sordid affair.

So player A misphrases his rules, and instead of saying "An IG platoon has a special rule allowing all the units in the platoon to arrive off of a single die roll", he makes a confusing statement, possibly leading to further confusion. Best to keep the terminology correct.

And as for Al-Rahem, there is no hard and fast answer. While the platoon does all arrive based on a single die roll, nothing tells us whther we then revert to rolling for sides for each individual unit or if Al-Rahem's rule also includes them all coming in on the same side. While it seems that it should be the second, given a lack of any such statement in AR's rules, by RAW it's probably the first, since there doesn't seem to be anyhting overriding the main rulebook statement about rolling for side for each unit outflanking.

The Al-Rahem question seems like something that should be discussed before each game. While I agree that RAW seems to indicate that after a single roll for reserves is successful you would roll for sides for each unit, it could be a heated topic of debate if something isn't decided on beforehand. Want to avoid that sort of thing if you can!

It would make sense IRL, for the entire platoon to roll for sides as one entity.

It's not like the entire platoon gets on one side except for this one squad who is now miles away on the other side of the battlefield.

Steelmage - nope, I never said it was beyond the bounds of possibility, I said it was incorrect AND confusing usage of the game term "unit", yet you seem to "stubbornly" seem to think it is ok to carry on. Despite being shown how the same conversation about DoW deployment would result in something entirely incorrect happening. But bravo for the bluster, grade A feeling-sorry-for-yourself.

RAW Alraheim gets a little lost and you roll for each UNIT (gee, theres that unit word again, look how it could cause issues being used incorrectly now, thats *two* examples!) seperately as the rules say. You would need a specific override for them to all turn up on the same roll for sides.

Steelmage and nosferatu, please tone down the rage a bit, ok? Just let it go!

As demonstrated by BlazinGhost, not everyone adheres to RAW religiously when it doesn't make too much sense IRL or fluff-wise. Its just best to clarify with your opponent before the game instead of assuming everyone wants to play with "hardcore" RAW.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Steelmage - nope, I never said it was beyond the bounds of possibility, I said it was incorrect AND confusing usage of the game term "unit", yet you seem to "stubbornly" seem to think it is ok to carry on. Despite being shown how the same conversation about DoW deployment would result in something entirely incorrect happening. But bravo for the bluster, grade A feeling-sorry-for-yourself.

RAW Alraheim gets a little lost and you roll for each UNIT (gee, theres that unit word again, look how it could cause issues being used incorrectly now, thats *two* examples!) seperately as the rules say. You would need a specific override for them to all turn up on the same roll for sides.

We are clearly speaking past each other. I done here.