Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello everyone,

I got a little question. I dont really understand the definition of when to use GoI in the german SM codex. Maybe the english one is clearer. Is it at the very beginning of your movement phase or when ever I want, but before the libby has moved?

So could I use Scoutbikers to turboboost 24" in the first turn and than, still in turn #1, use GoI to teleport to the locator beacon of the scoutbikes?

And yes, I know that it is not quite clear if it is allowed to use the beacon with GoI. I do it and ask my opponents always, until now, no one had problems with that.

Hi fellow German

The exact wording is: "at the beginning of the Librarian's Movement Phase"
So no Turboboosting before using GoI in the same Turn.

If you want to use it, you have to cast it before other units are moved.

Thats what confused me. It doesnt says "at the beginning of the players phase", but "of the librarian phase". If these two things mean the same, were good. But I thought its just to clearify that you cant move 6" with the libby and than cast GoI.

ChairmanMeow wrote:Thats what confused me. It doesnt says "at the beginning of the players phase", but "of the librarian phase". If these two things mean the same, were good. But I thought its just to clearify that you cant move 6" with the libby and than cast GoI.

They don't mean the same thing.

At the beginning of the players movement phase means you must use GoI before doing anything else, the same as the Eldar Powers are done. This means you cannot move units first before using GoI.

At the beginning of the Librarians movement phase is when you select the Librarian (and any unit he may be attached to) to be moved in the movement phase. So while you cannot move 6" and then GoI, you can move OTHER units first, then move the Librarian unit with GoI.

ChairmanMeow wrote:Thats what confused me. It doesnt says "at the beginning of the players phase", but "of the librarian phase". If these two things mean the same, were good. But I thought its just to clearify that you cant move 6" with the libby and than cast GoI.

It's practically the same thing, you must use it before anything has happened to or with the Librarian's unit.

Eldar powers are used in the beginning of the turn before the movement phase.

Gwar! wrote:At the beginning of the Librarians movement phase is when you select the Librarian (and any unit he may be attached to) to be moved in the movement phase. So while you cannot move 6" and then GoI, you can move OTHER units first, then move the Librarian unit with GoI.

Now thats exactly what I ment! So it is possible to move the mentioned scoutbikes and than use GoI.

Yes, but Locator Beacons don't work with GoI, RaW.

Ok, I'll behave now.

Gwar! wrote:At the beginning of the players movement phase means you must use GoI before doing anything else, the same as the Eldar Powers are done. This means you cannot move units first before using GoI.

At the beginning of the Librarians movement phase is when you select the Librarian (and any unit he may be attached to) to be moved in the movement phase. So while you cannot move 6" and then GoI, you can move OTHER units first, then move the Librarian unit with GoI.

That's one of the common interpretations.

The other is that 'the Librarian's movement phase' is the movement phase in which the Librarian moves. Or, in other words, the army's movement phase as a whole. So you can't move other units before using GOI.


Which is correct comes down to which of those interpretations you personally think is correct.

I personally take "the librarians movement phase" to mean just that. The players movement phase is army wide the librarians is unit specific. IMO. I actually haven't had anyone take issue with this in a game I have played. Then again I find librarians and GOI to be wasted points so I rarely run them.

OverwatchCNC wrote:The players movement phase is army wide the librarians is unit specific.

There is not a separate phase for each unit. The player has a movement phase, in which they move their units.

insaniak wrote:

OverwatchCNC wrote:The players movement phase is army wide the librarians is unit specific.

There is not a separate phase for each unit. The player has a movement phase, in which they move their units.

Insaniak is correct. There are no individual activations like in Warmachine.

So then Njal doesn't do anything then since his abilities happen at the start of his phases.

The Librarians movement phase is when he starts his movement phase.

Doesn't that make the player's movement phase also Librarian/Njal's movement phase though?

kirsanth wrote:Doesn't that make the player's movement phase also Librarian/Njal's movement phase though?

That's my take on it, yes. The Librarian's movement phase is the movement phase of the army to which the Librarian belongs.

I can see the argument for the other interpretation, but I personally don't think it fits with the actual turn structure of the game.

insaniak wrote:

kirsanth wrote:Doesn't that make the player's movement phase also Librarian/Njal's movement phase though?

That's my take on it, yes. The Librarian's movement phase is the movement phase of the army to which the Librarian belongs.

I can see the argument for the other interpretation, but I personally don't think it fits with the actual turn structure of the game.

I disagree I think Gwar's example of Njal is the correct interpretation. Like I said though it hasn't come up in any games I have played and if it did and I was over ruled by a TO or LO it would be fine, Iit's only a game after all.

With the turn 1 Scoutbikes Turboboost you could just do that as your scout move...

Otherwise I am on Insaniak's side. I see no reference or inferrence in the rule book to separate phases for each unit. There is 1 movement phase a turn. Units take turns to make actions in that phase but they are not defined as separate phases anywhere.

I'm surprised to here Gwar arguing against RaW though.

FlingitNow wrote:I'm surprised to here Gwar arguing against RaW though.

Continue to be surprised because I am not. I am arguing for what I think is RaW. I do see the other viewpoint, of course.

I see it as 1 movement phase in toto, but each unit has their own "movement phase" where you decide to move them, or not. Otherwise there is no point in specifynig the "librarians movement phase" when they could have simply stated "the movement phase"- it seems less likely that they meant you to go libby-movement-phase == movement-phase than to actually mean "when you go to move the librarian, do X"

I see it as 1 movement phase in toto, but each unit has their own "movement phase" where you decide to move them, or not.

So only the librarian can ever move? If there is 1 movement phase, then there is 1 start to said movement phase. Where in the rule book does it mention anything about unit's having their own movement phase?

Why specify the librarian's movement phase? Because the Librarian is the subject of the rule perhaps? Maybe they got bored writing controlling players movement phase every time? I don't know ther could be other reasons too. But unless you have some sort of reference to unit's having their own movement phase then "Librarian's movement phase" = "The controlling player's movement phase".

FlingitNow wrote:Why specify the librarian's movement phase?

Because it is different to just THE movement phase. If it were the same, why call it the Librarians movement phase?

Because it is different to just THE movement phase. If it were the same, why call it the Librarians movement phase?

How is it different please state where in the rules it is defined that there are more than 1 movement phases in a turn?

The last part I've already mentioned. But it is irrelevant unless you have something that states (or hints at) there being more than 1 movement phase a turn the terms are synominous.

Why say Librarian rather than Space Marine Librarian? Why do the special rules for Marneas Augustus Calgar refer to some unkown character called just Calgar? If they had stated the movement phase people might try to interpret that as either players turn's movement phases. So they'd have to write the controlling players movement phase which can become a mouthfull or may have been too many characters for the space they wished to spend on the rule... Plus the other reasons mentioned above.

Sigh.

There is 1 Movement Phase. Each unit has their own movement phase where they actually move.

Not a difficult concept. Entirely supportable and less of a contortion than your interpretation requires.

There is 1 Movement Phase. Each unit has their own movement phase where they actually move.

From this we can conclude only 1 unit can move a turn. There is 1 movement phase. You post says "there is 1 movement phase" then "there are multiple movement phases". Which is it 1 or multiple?

Not a difficult concept. Entirely supportable and less of a contortion than your interpretation requires.

There being 1 of something and lots of it? Sorry that is not only a difficult concept but an impossible. How is it supportable? Show where in the rules it allows you to have multiple movement phases in a turn? My interpretation isn't a contortion at all. Your requires you to invent multiple movement phases but say they don't count as movement phases and there is still only 1 movement phase but that 1 is also many movement phases....

Note the careful use of capitalisation, which you ignored. Again.

Movement Phase /= movement phase. The units own movement phase (see, lower case still) is where they move, or not, obeying all the usual rules for movement in the Movement Phase.

Try that and the rest of your post fades to nothing.

Ok when do these "movement phases" occur? What rules govern these "movement phases"? I see no mention of them in the rulebook during the "Movement Phase" (to use your emphasis on capitalisation) so I know they don't happen then. So when do they happen? How many of these are you allowed a turn? What happens at the end of these phases? How do you know when one phase ends and the next starts?

So which is more of a contortion?

I read the rulebook it refers to the movement phase and no mention of sub-movement phases for units. A unit's special rule refers to it's movement phase. I assume they mean the movement phase during which it takes it's actions.

You assume they have at that point created a new sub-phase called the unit's movement phases for which you have invented a whole series of rules...

FlingitNow wrote:I read the rulebook it refers to the movement phase and no mention of sub-movement phases for units.

You obviously fail at reading then. It's on the very first page of the movement rules.

n his turn. a player may move any of his units - all of them if he wishes - up to their maximum movement distance. Once a unit has completed all of its movement, the player selects another unit and moves that one, and so on, until the player has moved all of the units he wishes to move.

There. When it talks about a models "movement phase", it is talking about that.

No, not at all. When they refer to "Librarians movememnt phase" they mean "when the librarian moves, duering the Movement Phase of the player controlling the Librarian"

To you when they say "Librarians movement phase" they dont actually mean the point at which you deal with the Librarian, they mean the Movement Phase in toto. Which is more of a contortion as it removes the specificness of the phrase back to the general movement phase.

My way requires no extra rules and is the "intuitive" way of reading it. Yours requires no extra rules but requires a convoluted reading that removes context and specificity from the language used.

Have you read your own quote? No mention of a models (by this I assume you mean units) own movement phase.

FlingitNow wrote:Have you read your own quote? No mention of a models (by this I assume you mean units) own movement phase.

No, there isn't. It does, however, refer to a point within the Movement Phase when you move a specific unit.

That sounds a lot like a movement phase?

And yes, I meant units. Newsflash, a Librarian is a unit, even though he is only 1 model. Please, stop your flamebaiting. It's getting wearying.

When they refer to "Librarians movememnt phase" they mean "when the librarian moves, duering the Movement Phase of the player controlling the Librarian"

But that's not a phase (and is never described as such as far as I'm aware) that is just an occurance during a phase. Why say start of a phase when they weren't talking about a phase at all?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

No, there isn't. It does, however, refer to a point within the Movement Phase when you move a specific unit.

That sounds a lot like a movement phase?

No that sounds like part of a movement phase. Yes you move each unit in turn, but those are not movement phases as they are never referred to as such. There is only 1 movement phase mentioned in the rulebook. The fact that you like to refer to the section when each unit moves as that unit's movement phase does not mean that that is what they are called. They have no defined name and thus saying that the Librarian's movement phase refers to them rather than the movement phase the librarian makes his actions in is a huge stretch.