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With the rumored plastic grey knights and GKTs on the way I'm once again considering getting a pure GK army (this is the 3rd or 4th time ).
I'd like to do them heresy era but as far as I know nothing has changed with their armour, weapons etc since then.
Does anyone have any information that could help me make them look more heresy-y

I think you have answered your own question.

perhaps have them more shiny and brand new looking? That just of the garage forecourt look?

So a modern grey knight would look the same as 1 from 10,000 years ago? that sucks =(

Well, they'd probably have more terminator suits. You know, because the technology wasn't quite lost back then.

jonolikespie wrote:With the rumored plastic grey knights and GKTs on the way I'm once again considering getting a pure GK army (this is the 3rd or 4th time ).
I'd like to do them heresy era but as far as I know nothing has changed with their armour, weapons etc since then.
Does anyone have any information that could help me make them look more heresy-y

They didn't have Grey Knights during the heresy.

To make a heresy-era Grey Knight list, simply bring a blank sheet of paper for your army list, and bring an empty case for miniatures and you're done! The Grey Knights are a late founding chapter, they were created after the legions were broken into chapters, so there were no more Grey Knights in the heresy than there were Black Templars. Lexicanum says they were 2nd founding, but Realm of Chaos says they were a created during an unregistered founding shortly after the 3rd founding (part of why I don't trust Lexicanum for details). Remember, the inquisition wasn't even formed until very late in the Heresy, either shortly before the Emperor went to face Horus or shortly after depending on which book you read.

Late founding?

The latest they could be is second founding.

BearersOfSalvation wrote:To make a heresy-era Grey Knight list, simply bring a blank sheet of paper for your army list, and bring an empty case for miniatures and you're done! The Grey Knights are a late founding chapter, they were created after the legions were broken into chapters, so there were no more Grey Knights in the heresy than there were Black Templars. Lexicanum says they were 2nd founding, but Realm of Chaos says they were a created during an unregistered founding shortly after the 3rd founding (part of why I don't trust Lexicanum for details). Remember, the inquisition wasn't even formed until very late in the Heresy, either shortly before the Emperor went to face Horus or shortly after depending on which book you read.

Realm of Chaos is right on that score..IIRC. 3rd founding. But then RoC cannot now be trusted as canonical source of info....

Melissia wrote:Late founding? The latest they could be is second founding.

Not according to the original fluff for them in the 1988 Realm of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness book, it explicitly says that they were founded in a secret founding after the 3rd founding.

Third/unregistered founding makes the most sense. Second founding was basically just the legions breaking up into chapters, right?

AFAIK Index Astartes III puts them as a Second Founding Chapter

Either way, they are not a heresy era chapter, hence no heresy era GK army for you!

chaos0xomega wrote:Either way, they are not a heresy era chapter, hence no heresy era GK army for you!

1 demerit!

BearersOfSalvation wrote:

Melissia wrote:Late founding? The latest they could be is second founding.

Not according to the original fluff for them in the 1988 Realm of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness book, it explicitly says that they were founded in a secret founding after the 3rd founding.

Seeing as realm of chaos is so old, and GW love to redo fluff, the grey knights origin has been changed. Although a heresy grey knight army is impossible as their production was only ordered after the heresy, add to the fact that their chapter number is 666 (truelly unoriginal rubbish fluff) it puts them probably past the main 2nd founding.

jonolikespie wrote:With the rumored plastic grey knights and GKTs on the way I'm once again considering getting a pure GK army (this is the 3rd or 4th time ).
I'd like to do them heresy era but as far as I know nothing has changed with their armour, weapons etc since then.
Does anyone have any information that could help me make them look more heresy-y

nothing has really changed.

GK Power armor is a mark unto itself. it combines elements of MkIII and IV and contains anti-psychic wards and the same tech present in Psychic Hoods.


the Gks were formed either Late or shortly after the heresy. the "Official" founding isn't recorded. the Era would be of the 2nd.

they were formed by 70 loyal Deathguard marines, and 1 Luna Wolf. the reason these marines were loyal is because most of them were members of the legions prior to the discovery of their Primarchs. they were born on Terra and fought under the Emperor for much of the Crusade untill their respective Primarchs were discovered.

the new members of the Death Guard legion never respected the older members as they were viewed as having cushy lives prior to becoming Astartes. the Luna Wolves simply viewed the older members as being old fasioned and backwards.

Hence why Horus massacred thousands of Astartes. they put loyalty to the Emperor before Loyalty to the Primarch.

Grey Templar, I'm sorry but that sounds like lexicanum/made up fluff to me.

First off, what is known is that they are Chapter number 666, which implies that they came into existence much later...

Furthermore GK wear neither Mark III or Mark IV armor or any combination thereof, they where Aegis armor which is something completely separate entirely.

And who they were formed from is a completely unknown piece of history. I could just as easily say that they were formed from the geneseeds of the missing legions, and it would be just as "true" as your claim of 70 Deathguard and 1 Luna Wolf.

chaos0xomega wrote:Grey Templar, I'm sorry but that sounds like lexicanum/made up fluff to me.

First off, what is known is that they are Chapter number 666, which implies that they came into existence much later...

Furthermore GK wear neither Mark III or Mark IV armor or any combination thereof, they where Aegis armor which is something completely separate entirely.

And who they were formed from is a completely unknown piece of history. I could just as easily say that they were formed from the geneseeds of the missing legions, and it would be just as "true" as your claim of 70 Deathguard and 1 Luna Wolf.

Umm. You might want to go back and read some Horus Heresy novels. Specifically the Flight of the Eisenstein.

The 70 DG and 1 LW thing isn't a claim; it is canon now. http://www.blacklibrary.com/Horus-Heresy/Flight-of-the-Eisenstein-The.html


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and this is likely to be updated more in the new one.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/Garro-Oath-of-Moment.html

666 doesn't mean they are the six hundred and sixty sixth chapter that was created. it symbolizes their mission to hunt down and conquor the agents of the ultimate evil.

pretre wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:Grey Templar, I'm sorry but that sounds like lexicanum/made up fluff to me.

First off, what is known is that they are Chapter number 666, which implies that they came into existence much later...

Furthermore GK wear neither Mark III or Mark IV armor or any combination thereof, they where Aegis armor which is something completely separate entirely.

And who they were formed from is a completely unknown piece of history. I could just as easily say that they were formed from the geneseeds of the missing legions, and it would be just as "true" as your claim of 70 Deathguard and 1 Luna Wolf.

Umm. You might want to go back and read some Horus Heresy novels. Specifically the Flight of the Eisenstein.

The 70 DG and 1 LW thing isn't a claim; it is canon now. http://www.blacklibrary.com/Horus-Heresy/Flight-of-the-Eisenstein-The.html


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and this is likely to be updated more in the new one.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/Garro-Oath-of-Moment.html

Nowhere in Flight of the Eisenstein does it say that they become the Grey Knights, it is only hinted as such, and as we all know, GW likes to throw curveballs.

pretre wrote:Umm. You might want to go back and read some Horus Heresy novels. Specifically the Flight of the Eisenstein.

The 70 DG and 1 LW thing isn't a claim; it is canon now. http://www.blacklibrary.com/Horus-Heresy/Flight-of-the-Eisenstein-The.html

What page of the book do they say that on? The book implies that the surviving DG were involved in the start of the inquisition, it doesn't say that they formed the GKs.

BearersOfSalvation wrote:

Melissia wrote:Late founding? The latest they could be is second founding.

Not according to the original fluff for them in the 1988 Realm of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness book, it explicitly says that they were founded in a secret founding after the 3rd founding.

Realm of Chaos is as much Canon as the old rogue trader stuff that stated Sisters go around keeping all of the Space Marine chapters in line.

BearersOfSalvation wrote:

pretre wrote:Umm. You might want to go back and read some Horus Heresy novels. Specifically the Flight of the Eisenstein.

The 70 DG and 1 LW thing isn't a claim; it is canon now. http://www.blacklibrary.com/Horus-Heresy/Flight-of-the-Eisenstein-The.html

What page of the book do they say that on? The book implies that the surviving DG were involved in the start of the inquisition, it doesn't say that they formed the GKs.

just read the last few pages.

they all but say they found the GKs.

Grey Templar wrote:they all but say they found the GKs.

and you have just defeated your own arguement, althought it is a strong possibility (i personally don't believe they became GK, but were involved in their founding and training), as the founding of the GK is not actually described it is still only a possibility.

Unless Garro and co were all psykers, they didn't likely become GK. They did probably get involved in the foundation of the Ordo Malleus, however.


Also, yes, it is very much true-- chapter number does not indicate order of creation. The number of chapters has been constant over the course of Imperial history since the system was created (At least as far as I know), with each founding replacing lost chapters.

Geneseed doesn't afect the psychic talent of a Marine so the geneseed that was descended from Garro and Co could have been used.


they likely chose only psychic individuals from that time onward to recieve their geneseed(prehaps the logic was that a psychic individual would be able to detect warp energies)


I doubt that they were called Grey Knights untill many years later, but they certaintly founded them.

Melissia wrote:
Also, yes, it is very much true-- chapter number does not indicate order of creation. The number of chapters has been constant over the course of Imperial history since the system was created (At least as far as I know), with each founding replacing lost chapters.

I don't think so. Most legions only split into a handful of chapters iirc, and there really weren't enough marines left at the end of the heresy to create the supposed 1000 chapters of Space Marines.

Grey Templar wrote:Geneseed doesn't afect the psychic talent of a Marine so the geneseed that was descended from Garro and Co could have been used.


they likely chose only psychic individuals from that time onward to recieve their geneseed(prehaps the logic was that a psychic individual would be able to detect warp energies)


I doubt that they were called Grey Knights untill many years later, but they certaintly founded them.

You're grasping at straws. To say that they 'certainly' founded them implies that you have actual hard prove, which you do not. Until you can show me, from a reliable source, a line that states that the Grey Knights were founded by such and such, you're WRONG.

it took a couple of foundings to get to the 1,000th chapter mark, but 1k has always been the number that was strived for.

the GKs aren't a listed chapter either. they are outside of the Codex and it's limitations and have their own organization.


Their leadership is organized according to psychic ability. a GK that shows very little psychic talant, only being able to wield his NFW, will likely never rise beyond Justicar.

the Chapter is led by a council of Grand Masters who are the most talanted and, usually, the oldest members.

the chapter numbers over 5,000 marines, but they are scattered throughout the galaxy with only a major concentration around the EoT(likely around 1,000 at any one time)

Melissia wrote:Well, they'd probably have more terminator suits. You know, because the technology wasn't quite lost back then.

And the technology wasn't common back then either.

Terminator Suits were, at that time, hand-crafted to suit their owners and were(much like now) as much a work of art and science as they were weapons of war.

Actually, TDA was INVENTED during the Great Crusade.

it drew upon the same Tech present in Power armor(which had existed in various forms for quite awhile) and simply use massive layers of matierial to achieve a greater layer of protection.


the Tech to produce large quantities of TDA was lost during the Heresy, but it can still be replicated. in Fallen Angels, a DA librarian is overlooking a work order for Mars. it is for 5,000 suits of MkIV PA, 200 suits of TDA, and an assortment of Light Tanks(likely Predators) and is placing another order for 10,000 more suits of PA.

clearly, the foundries of Mars could mass produce both PA and TDA.

Well they had more terminators. And Realms of chaos is not reliable as it has been 20 years since its release.