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If an enemy model is in contact with 2 different wyches with shardnets/impalers will that model have its attacks reduced by 2?

yes

why? Generally the same power doesn't stack unless it explicitly says so.

Because it is two different models, not one model with two effects.

Right but say you had 2 hive tyrants with hive commander ( +1 to reserves) you would not get +2 to reserves rolls you would only get +1. What makes this case different?

Each wych has a shard net and each shard net reduces the models in base contacts attacks by 1 to a minimum of 1. That's why. And yes it does sound very similar!

I dont buy that explanation. Reduces to a minimum of one simply means that a model with only one attack cannot be reduced to zilch.

4ed i think Nyds had Lash Whips (maybe dif. item) that also reduced attacks in bsb, and their effect stacks. Same here.. its just stacks..
and if i remember correct - 5ed Nyds faq say its specifically about Hive commander - that its not stack.

I find this interesting. Actually it would not be consistent I don't think. Consider that Stealth adds +1 to the cover save of the unit. Everyone plays that multiple models in a unit with Stealth do not each add +1 to the unit (although I would argue RAW actually says it does, but I digress).

Most consistent with how people play other effects would be that multiple shardnets do not stack, although there is no RAW reason to think they wouldn't stack.

Dracos NO! Because they don't add Stealth onto each other do they? They just affect themselves with their stealth. So you couldn't have 4 Independent Characters with FC join a Space Wolf squad, and therefore have 5 FC all adding 1 strength and initiative to each other . . . That would be ridiculous.

But yes, Shardnet and Impaler stack =D

Oshova

Well look at what stealth say, it adds 1 to the units cover save. FC says the model gains the benefit. Not an accurate comparison.

Either way I agree Shardnets stack by RAW, I guess we'll see how people play this and how it gets FAQ'd if it ever does.

Yes 'adds 1 to the "units" cover save', different from reduces the attacks of models in BTB by 1 to a minimum of of 1" (Loose quotes).

in FC and Stealth case its unit who benefits from that USR, in case of shardnet and impaler its enemy models who gets affected, that imho major difference - and why it stacks.

There is nothing clear and concrete on this one. All I've heard so far is opinion. Thats okay but I think we should keep it in the right perspective.

Well it is clear and concrete...saying it isnt is your opinion.

It doesn't say it stacks.

It doesnt have to say it explicitly when the language used permits it.

If you are in base contact with 2 shardnet models you lose 2 attacks in total. If you dont you lose two attacks you have only satisfied one of the models special rules.

Can anyone post or PM me the exact wording of the rule?

Says in base contact with the wielder, if there are 2 wielders then their should be a reduction of 2, right?

You could look at it this way: every 'net and 'paler you're touching apply -1 attacks to you.

Yes, which is the point.

There is no need to say they stack if the rules cant be followed unless they stack.

My feeling is this one will probably be covered when the official FAQ from GW is released. It could go either way. I can certainly understand why people think it stacks and as written it could. I don't think that was the intent though. I know none of us know what is the actual intent, it's just my opinion and that is how I would play it. Note that I'm building a de army and am planning to run one to squads of Bloodbrides with three shardnets each - so no I'm not arguing against to gain an advantage for my other armies. Most units have one to two attacks and if your de squad has a phantasm grenade launcher the combination with shardnets will seriously hamper most units charging your squad.

There's something in the WH (DH too?) codex called a Mancatcher. Basically a pole with some sort of trap on top, used to entangle enemies. This one specifies that you lose one attack to a minimum of one for every Acolyte with a Mancatcher in b-t-b. Not a big surprise if someone thinks the Deldar version doesn't stack...

Why wouldn't that be a suprise, from what you've wrote the mancatcher is identical to the wych weapon. I would think such a precedent would be evidence in support of stacking.

Identical, except the Mancatcher says "for every Acolyte" meaning it stacks... A statement which apparently the Wyche gear lacks.

Spetulhu wrote:Identical, except the Mancatcher says "for every Acolyte" meaning it stacks... A statement which apparently the Wyche gear lacks.

I should note that for most things is says if you are in base contact with one or more models the effect will apply. This would mean they don't stack. I don't see how the shardnet wouldn't stack.

The Mancathcer says "for each Acolyte in B2B with an enemy model, that model's attacks are reduced by one to a minimum of one". Oh, and each 'cathcer may only affect one enemy model.

Yes, thank you GW. At least you've told us how to use Invulnerable saves on vehicles. No, wait...

Are invuln saves on vehicles really that difficult to figure out anyway...

They stack, just like Grabba Stikk, even same wording.

asimo77 wrote:Are invuln saves on vehicles really that difficult to figure out anyway...

There are no rules in the rulebook that let you use invulnerable saves on Hits. Hence Bjorn has to have special wording.

I think most people won't have any problems using flickerfield. It's the same as a cover save but can't be negated by flamers, Hydras, etc.