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Hello. Do anybody know a good Tyranid read? I am having trouble winning or playing them at all. I have tryed some things but I do not winn (it is funn though!)

I have read the strategy post on this forum, but I do not wholly agree with it. I usualy play around 1750 and 1850 games.

Usualy I loose because I meet a lott of big guns/dread and tank. (I moastly play SM.)

You should post your typical 1750 and 1850 lists and the lists of what you usually go against. I think from there people will be able to get a better idea of your situation.

There is also a lot of good advice in a thread a bit down the page.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/319613.page

If you have not read it, it has a lot of useful information.

I generally play nids at the 2k level and face mostly marines and have good success. Let us know what you are currently fielding in general and we will do our best to assist you.

Usualy I field
4 bloks of 9 genestealers + a broodlord,
2 zoanthropes,
3 hive guards
5 ygmars
10 gaunts
1 trevigaunt broodmother(?) (count as troops)
1 hive tyrant with bonesword, whip and twin linked dakka gun with 1 guard
some gargoyles.

I have not played them in a while because I just keep loosing with them. But I wanna start again. I cant get the genestealers to work at all. (They attack his transport, it dies and blows up, next round I get bolters in the face)

I have bought a carnifex and rebuild an old one into 2 tyranofexes with anti tank guns. I hope that will help. The Zoeanthropes might also actualy be better as hive guards but I can't boter bying/building more.

My first target priraty is usualy his predator, and then the landspeeders (with heavy bolter and frag/krak.)

You definitely need some more anti tank, preferably ranged anti tank. Zoans not in Pods are unlikely to kill much as they probably die before they get to shoot anything. More Hive Guard/Tyrannofexes/Harpies/shooty Tyrants would definitely help deal with vehicles so that your smaller stuff can get to the squishy contents. You could also take more MCs which are capable of dealing with vehicles as well, 1 fighty MC (Tervigon doesn't count) is very low for any sized Nid list.

how many points is that?

I know what you are doing already wrong, lemme know point values and i'll toss you in the right direction

Grundz wrote:how many points is that?

Looks about 1580 with no biomorphs.

Thats about what my math said too, so its either a really bad 2000 list, or he isn't adding correctly, thus the question

Adding to ideas on how to make the list better. I find stealers do best as a strike force unit. Taking about 5-6 stealers with a lord. 9 with a lord seems too big. I would only take 2 units of them as well. Genestealers work well in the right spot, but they are not a jack of all trades troop and can't win you the game IMO. I would also add in more MC and pod the zoans.

yeah, I would lose the zoanthropes completely and run 9 hive guard, 3 units of 3. That gives you 18 str 8 shots at 24 inches without needing LOS. You can hide them behind solid wallls and pick apart transports and even IC's.

They are honestly must have units for what I consider to be a weaker codex in 5th edition.

Be warned though, they are packing leadership 5 and you will need some synapse to keep them going, as they have the lurk ability, if memory serves and will not reach out to targets if out of synapse.

gannam wrote:Be warned though, they are packing leadership 5 and you will need some synapse to keep them going, as they have the lurk ability, if memory serves and will not reach out to targets if out of synapse.

So long as they are in cover, they will still fire, but it will automatically be at the closest enemy unit. Rarely optimal.

First of all, thanks a lott for all the feedback. This is getting my hopes up for what seems to be a loosing army under my leadership.

I have shiftet the list around a lott but I have not ended up with anything that can winn. The best I do are ties. I have to agree with gannam that hive guards seems like a no brainer, but I only have 3 of those.

kirsanth, I have looked at the thread but there is so mutch debating I am having a hard time following it.

Gruntz, I usualy play 1750 to 1850 points.

I was hoping my 2 new tyranofexes could help me out in the anti tank department.

Niiai wrote:kirsanth, I have looked at the thread but there is so mutch debating I am having a hard time following it.

Basically just read the initial post. Hulksmash has updated it with relevant tidbits.

Regarding Tyrannofexes. . .do not hide them and hope their 2 shot gun will make them useful.
They are best used in the front of the army--still shooting mind you, but moving forward and giving cover to the guys behind them. If they get close to a unit, they can shoot them with 2 guns then assault. They will wreck vehicles in CC and have the best armor in the codex, utilize them.

Well... it just seems that instead of keeping with the old codex, they just invented a lott of crap. (Mind you did not play 4th edition.)

It is just that many of the tradisjonal tactics lice stealer shock is out the window. Even the lictor is behaving odd.

And what unit performs well? Trevigon, tyranofex, hive guards and the trygon. All who'm are new. (OK, the trygon existed the the imperial armour books.)

Se a pattern? It just seems that instead of getting the points right they just inveted units to fill gaps and wholes in the codex.

The tervigon is the star of the codex in my opinion.

If you park one on an objective and poop out bugs, you can essentially cover an entire piece of terrain, and it is very hard to remove. Even if the tervigon gets popped, the Gaunts can simply lurk and go to ground for a 3+ cover save and hold the objective.

I think the mathhammer guys calculated it out to about 14 average gaunts per game. I have gotten 36 at one time.

I am actualy not that sold on him. He is just a big thing that gets shot up. But that is perhaps because I can't manadge to dent my oponent ranged spam.

You either need
-faster troops
-more resiliant troops
-more troops

or what I prefer, all 3.

broodlords are empty points, lose them, a 10 man squad of outflanking genestealers is usually enough to do the job (where I am) Remember stealers with toxin sacs can reroll wounds on T4 models, giving you lots more rends

I never run with less than 2 squads of 20 gargoyles, first turn give them FNP and hide them behind some mid-field cover, second turn a majority of his army is in close combat. Stick in a flying hive tyrant, and gargs with rerolls to hit and wound on T4 units=absolutely nuts.

If you don't get first turn, zoanathropes make great cover for your weaker units.

a 5 man unit of yargarbl stealers can be pretty decent if only to jump a heavy weapon unit in his back lines or multiassault a parking lot of vehicles, and keep him on his toes.

The point of tyranids are, is he will have enough guns to shoot you down over the game,your job is to stop him from being able to use them for more than one shooting phase because you decent upon him from every direction at the same time.

For your problems with Genestealers, you should cover all the access points on the vehicle before you blow it up, so his whole unit in there dies. Nids do it all the time to me and its a pain in the a$$

SanguinaryGuard wrote:For your problems with Genestealers, you should cover all the access points on the vehicle before you blow it up, so his whole unit in there dies. Nids do it all the time to me and its a pain in the a$$

only thing is he needs to wreck it, as if he explodes it ... well it doesnt matter as there is now a crater ...

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

SanguinaryGuard wrote:For your problems with Genestealers, you should cover all the access points on the vehicle before you blow it up, so his whole unit in there dies. Nids do it all the time to me and its a pain in the a$$

only thing is he needs to wreck it, as if he explodes it ... well it doesnt matter as there is now a crater ...

and with a 1" bubble there isn't enough room to place 10 guys if it explodes and be outside of 1" of an enemy

Grundz wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

SanguinaryGuard wrote:For your problems with Genestealers, you should cover all the access points on the vehicle before you blow it up, so his whole unit in there dies. Nids do it all the time to me and its a pain in the a$$

only thing is he needs to wreck it, as if he explodes it ... well it doesnt matter as there is now a crater ...

and with a 1" bubble there isn't enough room to place 10 guys if it explodes and be outside of 1" of an enemy

Is that how the rules are? Do they have to be inside the crater? We read that he just placed them out spilling over the sides. This could improve a bit, but usualy he just have squads of 5 in the lazorback.

I have 20 gargoyles, but you sugest I get 20 more? And equip them with adrenalin glands I take so that they can glance tanks?

Niiai wrote:
Is that how the rules are? Do they have to be inside the crater? We read that he just placed them out spilling over the sides. This could improve a bit, but usualy he just have squads of 5 in the lazorback.

I have 20 gargoyles, but you sugest I get 20 more? And equip them with adrenalin glands I take so that they can glance tanks?

You put the models where the tank was, the models around the tank do not move at all to place a crator or anything, boarder there's only enough for maybe 5 models without violating the 1" rule.

Gargs need toxin sacs and adrenals.

Adrenals let you go first against I4 and gives you S4, which is important because with poison on the charge you will wound on 4's and can reroll failed wounds.
with a flying hive tyrant giving preferred enemy, you reroll everything, autowound on hit rolls of 6, and wound on 4's, they become pretty nuts.
I usually run 40 gargs, try using replacement models and seeing if you like them.

List seems to be without a plan. With ymgarls you have 5 stealer type units and one tervigon/gaunt combination. Then there is the gargoyles which seem to be an afterthought.

You need to get another hive guard minimum for 2*2 broods. Get a pod for the zoanthropes. I would drop some stealer units, possibly the ymgarls. if you are looking to run 2 tyrannofex then push them forward using the gargoyles as a screen - hopefully enough to give them a cover save.

I personally don't like tervigons, but plenty do. With dropping ymgarl and a stealer squad (or two) I would look at another HQ - possibly a prime or maybe a parasite to add to the gargoyles. Add another guard to the tyrant with prime and you have a real deathstar unit.

Right, for example here's a 2k-ish list of mine I cooked up a few weeks ago.
I usually onslaught the zoans on the first turn and obliterate a backline heavy vehicle, everything goes into cover, on the second turn a majority of his army is engaged with gargoyles, genestealers come in, on the 3rd turn the trygons and tervigon with posse' arrive to the front lines and things get bad.

The points are probably off since I did some tuning since I saved this list, but this was the general idea.

Winged Tyrant w/ old adversary, lashwhip, talons , wings
Tervigon w/ onslaught and catalyst

3 Zoans
3 Hive Guard
5 yargarbl stealers

10 stealers w/ toxin sacs
10 stealers w/ toxin sacs

20 gargoyles w/adrenal and toxin sacs
20 gargoyles w/adrenal and toxin sacs
20 gargoyles w/adrenal and toxin sacs

Trygon
Trygon

OK, here is a sugestion of a list based on what I have at 1850 points:

|x Trevigon, cluster Spines, Catalyst 175

3x Hive Guard Brood - 150
2x Zoanthrope Brood - 120
5x Ygmar Genestealers – 115

4 Tyranid Warriors, 1 barbed strangler 135
16 Termaganst with Adrenal Glands 96
8 Genestealers with Toxic Sacks 136

20 Gargoyles With Adrenal Glands 140

1x Tyranofexes, rupture cannons, electroshock grubs, stinger salvo - 265
1x Tyranofexes, rupture cannons, electroshock grubs, stinger salvo - 265
1x Trygon Prime, Toxic sacks – 250

1847

What I do not like that I feel I might have to many MC's. The Trygon Prime for instance seems a butt useless in this list. Also the zoanthropes are a bit useless because I already have the 2 rupture cannons, they could rather be hive guards. Again, I do not have any more models like that. I do have a hive tyrant, but I keep asking myself what the warrior squads provide besides synapse.

OK, here is a sugestion of a list based on what I have at 1850 points:

|x Trevigon, cluster Spines, Catalyst 175

If you want your gaunts to have adrenal glands, put them on the tervigon, not the gaunts.

3x Hive Guard Brood - 150
2x Zoanthrope Brood - 120
5x Ygmar Genestealers – 115

Okay i guess. I'd want another unit of hive guard over the ymgarls at 1850, but you have the tyrannos. 5 Ymgarls might not be enough to make an impact on anything.

4 Tyranid Warriors, 1 barbed strangler 135
16 Termaganst with Adrenal Glands 96
8 Genestealers with Toxic Sacks 136

Warriors aren't great, and the way you have em setup is worse. what are they doing besides a few devourer shots and the barbed strangler? Pretty much nothing.
Adrenal glands from the gants should be on the Tervigon, saves points and gives it to the spawned units as well.
8 Stealers with no broodlord is marginal. Will have to combine charge with other friendly units to be sure of wiping stuff out.

20 Gargoyles With Adrenal Glands 140

Solid, I'd suggest toxin-sacs as well personally.

1x Tyranofexes, rupture cannons, electroshock grubs, stinger salvo - 265
1x Tyranofexes, rupture cannons, electroshock grubs, stinger salvo - 265
1x Trygon Prime, Toxic sacks – 250

Prime is pretty much only for synapse, so it's your call if you need it or not.

I HATE Tyrannofexes. They are a colossal waste of points IMO. 2 shots at BS3 is not worth their price tag, but if you are set on em....good luck.

I'm not a fan of tyranofexes honestly, I would drop one, and take 2 normal trygons, drop the termigaunts and take the extra 221 points in a tyranid prime and more warriors, or some hormigaunts.

and dont take gargs without both adrenals and toxin sacs, seriously, you increase the number of wounds you cause by like 40% for 1 point per model.

I will need to get some more moddels then apparantly. :-/ Oh well.

But I am not so sold on the 8. point gargoyles. for each one that gets shott (and they will get shot) you just loose more points. I know they earn back points once they get into close combat but if 10 gets shot down you have lost 80 vs 70, would it not be better to buy 2 more gargoyles for the last points so you get more into combat? to quote the orks: boys over toys.

No, since you remain effective (1/2 of wounds hurting) with poison after the first round, without poison you only generally wound on a 5/6 or a 6. instead of a 4 with poison.
The adrenals give them a bigger initial kick, every model you kill isn't swinging back, even if you kill like 3 marines before they get to swing the 20 points was worth it.