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I am wondering if a squad was equipped with a melta and a flamer. The melta pops the tank and the units inside come out. So far it ok but now come the flamer.

Some people say that you can’t shoot the people that were inside the tank if you popped it with the same squad. Flamers use a template however. Could they shoot separately?


Second scenario. A squad shoots. Can a unit with a flamer shoot at a different squad?

No. Unless stated otherwise, a unit can only shoot and one other unit (In this case the tank)

Step through the sequence for firing shown on page 15 of the rulebook. At no point are you given the option to say "I'm going to fire this portion of this unit" and then given the option to fire with another portion of the same unit at a different unit.

If you have a unit that can divide its fire between two units, you'll know because that unit will have a special rule specifying that it can and also specifying what the restrictions will be.

solkan wrote:
If you have a unit that can divide its fire between two units, you'll know because that unit will have a special rule specifying that it can and also specifying what the restrictions will be.

Even then you wouldn't be able to shoot the occupants of the destroyed transport as all firing from the same unit is done simultaneously.

There is even a specific comment on this in the BRB:

"Remember that all models in a single unit fire simultaneously, so a squad cannot take out a transport wih its lascannon and then mow down the occupants with their bolters." P67

We have a house rule. If a squad wants to split fire a leadership test must be passed, once per split.
But this all happens at the same time. None of this, shoot up an enemy with half a squad, then finish them off if the first volley didn't do well.
The sequence goes
1. choose targets
2. leadership test
3. fire alotted weapons at chosen squads

cute house rule, but its not the rules eh?

The answer's a plain no in this case as stated above many other times

Rochronos wrote:We have a house rule. If a squad wants to split fire a leadership test must be passed, once per split.
But this all happens at the same time. None of this, shoot up an enemy with half a squad, then finish them off if the first volley didn't do well.

So you still couldn't have one part of the squad kill the transport and have the other part shoot the squad since the squad isn't a valid target until after the transport has been destroyed.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:cute house rule, but its not the rules eh?

He did say it was a house rule.

Ok, thats the tank bit sorted, cant shoot at the pasangers.


but what about when firing at two diffrent squads? The flamer is a template so can it be manauly put over a diffrent squad or must it cover at least one of the units in the squad other in your squad has shoot at?

Thge flame tmplete MUST cover as many models in the unit he's shooting as possable, if you can do that and still hit the other unit then yes if you can't them no.

thanks guys for your stright answers and lack of trolling.

it must cover as much of the unit you have targeted and if theres any extra its a bonus

Friend of mine played a nasty trick once - dropped a dreadie w/MM+HF in a position 8" away from a tank with a squad between the dread and the tank - declared he was firing on the tank and the squad was caught under the flame template even though it and the MM were fired against the tank. Legit move as far as I know.... and I don't camp squads next to tanks any more =P

solkan wrote:Step through the sequence for firing shown on page 15 of the rulebook. At no point are you given the option to say "I'm going to fire this portion of this unit" and then given the option to fire with another portion of the same unit at a different unit.

If you have a unit that can divide its fire between two units, you'll know because that unit will have a special rule specifying that it can and also specifying what the restrictions will be.

+1 to this.

Courtsloth - ONLY if the Flamer was able to touch the Vehicle unit. If the flamer did not have range to the vehicle then it automatically misses.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Courtsloth - ONLY if the Flamer was able to touch the Vehicle unit. If the flamer did not have range to the vehicle then it automatically misses.

Also, the flamer must be positioned to cover as much of the vehicle as possible - not just touching the vehicle so as to get as many of the guys as possible.

so the key with flamer is you have to cover as many as possable. thanks for the help guys X]

Ledabot wrote:so the key with flamer is you have to cover as many as possable. thanks for the help guys X]

And as for the firing past a unit to hit a different unit, if you can't hit the unit your aiming for the flame will auto miss the first unit. So if you can't hit the unit you aim at, no hit are scored no matter how many are under the templete.

The Flamer template is over 8" long so courtsloth's example was legit, also because the template is not much more than 8" long(somewhere between 8.5-9.5 inches, I don't have it and a ruler in front of me at the moment) you can easily get most of the squad under the template while not having much of the template over the tank(so long as the maximum amount of the template possible covers the tank).

I had a similar situation in a game last night; my friend fired a BA DC Dread HF at my Ork Trukk with a unit of boys in front of it; he had to cover as much of the trukk as possible, and that made the boys safe from the HF(The trukk was undamaged by the HF as well but kareened from the Melta).

Kommissar Kel wrote:The Flamer template is over 8" long so courtsloth's example was legit, also because the template is not much more than 8" long(somewhere between 8.5-9.5 inches, I don't have it and a ruler in front of me at the moment) you can easily get most of the squad under the template while not having much of the template over the tank(so long as the maximum amount of the template possible covers the tank).

I had a similar situation in a game last night; my friend fired a BA DC Dread HF at my Ork Trukk with a unit of boys in front of it; he had to cover as much of the trukk as possible, and that made the boys safe from the HF(The trukk was undamaged by the HF as well but kareened from the Melta).

I know I was point out that if someone trys that and miss he's target you don't get the free hits on the unit inbetween.

Scott-S6 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Courtsloth - ONLY if the Flamer was able to touch the Vehicle unit. If the flamer did not have range to the vehicle then it automatically misses.

Also, the flamer must be positioned to cover as much of the vehicle as possible - not just touching the vehicle so as to get as many of the guys as possible.

However, should the vehicle be almost exactly the length away. Then, if played correctly, then the flamer CAN only be touching the vehicle, and the template still cover the squad...

I.E. MM pops Chimera from behind. Flamer template can only touch the rear armor of the chimera with about 1/8 of an inch under the template. Hit. The squad that also emergency disembarked is hit with the flamer.

Wrong, as all shooting from one unit occurs simultaneously.

Also, remember that if they emergency disembark that can be from anywhere on the hull.....

The proper way to beat down a unit in a transport is to pop it with a Melta and ASSAULT the unit that falls out of it. Remeber the Melta is an Assault weapon so there is nothing wrong with this.

As for the flammer thing, you have to cover as many enemy models, from the target your squad is shooting at, with the template as possible. But I distinctly remember a line in the BRB that was in to make it illegal to turn the flammer template sidways, something about the placement of the narrow end of the flammer template. The point is that if you are as close as legally possible to enemy squad A and enemy squad B is right behind them you could end up hitting more models from B then from A with the flammer.

Two ticks it says in the BRB that if a member of a squad destroys a transport then you may fire at the occupants that turn even with members of the squad that popped the trans??? am i right or did i miss something?

No, it does NOT say that. At all.

ALL firing from ONE unit is resolved simultaneously: there is no "after the melta fires" for your flamer to suddenly hit now disembarked models.

You can fire at the now-disembarked models with *other* units that have not yet fired that turn. But thats it.

Tyranic Marta wrote:Two ticks it says in the BRB that if a member of a squad destroys a transport then you may fire at the occupants that turn even with members of the squad that popped the trans??? am i right or did i miss something?

No, it says you may assault them.

It also says: "Remember that all models in a single unit fire simultaneously, so a squad cannot take out a transport wih its lascannon and then mow down the occupants with their bolters." P67

Thanks, sorry for the inconvienience i misread

However.... If you combat squad the unit, with the Melta in one and the Flamer in the other and move them essentually together, you COULD melta the transport then flame the occupants, provided they disembark the way you need them to.

yeah that would work