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Hello there, my warhammer fantasy career is not very long, but every time I have played against warriors of chaos with my lizardmen, I get demolished. I run a saurus heavy list with a ton of temple guard and a maxed out Slann. The main problems I face when fighting Chaos are a level 4 Tzeentch mage on a disc using something similar to the Book of Ashur and a lot of Chaos Warriors armed with halberds and good armor. Does anyone have any advice or tips on how to take down the Chaos menace and fulfill the plans of the Old Ones? Thanks for the help!

Here's the first question you'll have to answer for good help:

What lore are you using for the Slann?

I'll say this: Don't max out the Slann. It is never worth the points.

I usually run life with my slann. I tried metal, and i like how it completely owns the chaos warriors by denying their armor saves, but my magic phases werent all that stellar, and most of his guys had good ward saves.


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Furthermore, yes I understand that it is typicallly a bad idea to pour almost 500 pts into a slann for a 2k point game, but I felt it was the only way to compete with that tzeentch sorcerror of his. Of course this didnt work, so I am open to any other ideas on how to compete with his mage.

Did you have becalming? If he's not very careful with his positioning, you can really put a crimp in his magic phase by making him throw out any 6s with that fancy pants caster. Not as effective against a highly mobile guy with a low casting cost lore, though.

You can also bring cupped hands and hand the guy a miscast- though these don't always have a massive impact on lone casters with a good ward save.

I tend to think the way to go if you're running temple guard is with life magic, as it just seems to me that miscasts are far too costly. The buffs can make your saurus very durable, perhaps enough to go toe-to-toe with warriors.

I agree the best lore for the slann is the lore of life as he can increase the toughness of your saurus by as much as 4+ and bring them back to life if they do die.
But be warned to not relay on your big bad toad too much as even with a 2+ ward save he can die if the enemy wants him to and makes it his main mission.

Yeah I took becalming, and it helps when he tries to cast spells like Infernal Gateway (although he can sometimes out-maneuver my range with that disc of his)

It seems like life magic is the way to go. I tried running metal for a more offensive role, but I suppose I should play more defensively with my lizards against chaos and run life then.

Thanks,

Yes but never leave home with out your skinks skirmishers with poison! In my first game against warriors I killed a lord on jugg with 24 blowpipe shots, the amount of saves he had to make a was huge and he only had a couple of wounds to use.

Oh yeah I love my skinks, they've actually stopped a few charges against other armies when they stand and shoot with their 20+ shots haha.

The Forgefather wrote:I usually run life with my slann. I tried metal, and i like how it completely owns the chaos warriors by denying their armor saves, but my magic phases werent all that stellar, and most of his guys had good ward saves.

Try light, WS 10 init 10 ASF saurus, are extreemly hard for anyone to deal with, also take some sallamanders to mess up his marauders if he has any.
As for the slaan threre is one standard uberslaan build, going above that is a waste of points but you can drop things if you wish to save some:

Slann=460
Focus of Mystery
The Focused Rumination
The Becalming Cogitation
BSB+Standard of Discipline
Cupped Hands of the Old Ones

Light sounds like a good idea, and yeah salamanders look like they could do some damage against the 40 man horde of marauders w/ great weapons he was running last game.

The Forgefather wrote:Light sounds like a good idea, and yeah salamanders look like they could do some damage against the 40 man horde of marauders w/ great weapons he was running last game.

Greatweapons on warriors is a not so good build. It wastes their high initiative. You should be able to kill a fair few before they strike back in close combat at least.

Lexx wrote:

The Forgefather wrote:Light sounds like a good idea, and yeah salamanders look like they could do some damage against the 40 man horde of marauders w/ great weapons he was running last game.

Greatweapons on warriors is a not so good build. It wastes their high initiative. You should be able to kill a fair few before they strike back in close combat at least.

And with speed of light and pha's protection they hit you on 6s.

The lore of light is a good lore in my experience it is best used against undead and spirits. It does have good spells to make your troops better, but then you are wasting the lore attribute and 2 spells. Though it is up to the player on which lore they use.

Actually, even tho the magic missiles are less effective, they are still pretty good and burning gaze is flaming for messing up regenerating stuff a little bit. It is however more of an all comers lore rather than WoC pawning one.

Its definitely between light and life. I like how light's spells can hex the enemy and buff my own troops, but I am REALLY tempted to take life because of dwellers below. Having that spell should make those chaos warriors think twice about getting close to my slann.

VIrtually every problem in fantasy can be solved with more salamanders and a lore of life slaan..

Well, what can I say Mr. Forgefather The power of Chaos is too much bring to a halt

p.s. Mr. Santiago

The Forgefather wrote:Its definitely between light and life. I like how light's spells can hex the enemy and buff my own troops, but I am REALLY tempted to take life because of dwellers below. Having that spell should make those chaos warriors think twice about getting close to my slann.

Actually chaos is one of the main reasons i preffer light, 3rd eye of tcheench sorceror being within 24" of the temple guard unit but more than 24" from the slaan = dead S3 frog, exactly because of dwellers.

I'd have to agree with Hoverboy on this one. As a WoC players I like to see other casters with those uber spells because I can use those spells against my opponent too. It's probably better to allow your opponent have the same buffs as you then the same devastating unit wrecker spells.

The advice to look at salamaders and skinks with blowpipes is also very solid. As has been said already, salamaders are good at thinning out ranks of marauders. The skinks are good at taking out anything with a low armor save or small units by sheer volume of saves that will have to be made.

I'd just say that I think there's a strong case to be made for other lores (especially light) but the cost of miscasts is so high when you're nuking temple guard that you have to be very careful. If it's a slann that rolls on his own, I'd have no compulsions about recommending light.

I can see your point now on the lore of light being good against WoC. And if he did take any daemons it would be very useful, also taking the soul of stone on your slann is a good idea as he can re-roll results on the miscast table to give him that extra edge and one magic item I always use when fielding a slann is the Divine Plaque of protection to increase his ward save to 2+ which is great!

Being a WoC player, I find myself across the table from one of our better lizardmen players often.

TBH, what gets me worse than anything else in his army is his damned Engine of the Gods.

Anything that denies WoC either Armor or Toughness is a hard pill to swallow. Consider a group of 5 Chaos Knights costing about 330 points. They're a wonderful unit, but being hit in a radius spell not allowing an armor save is devastating.

I've played against both Lore of Metal and Lore of Light Slaans, and probably the most annoying thing is Lore of Light. Charging TG is annoying enough but when they have WS 10 AND Pha's Protection I have a need for a ridiculously high roll to hit and wound.

Saurus blocks are also a pretty good counter to Marauders. I almost always run Wulfrik with a block of 30 Marauders (GW's or Flails w/ no armor and MoK.) and unlike a lot of units, I almost always get slogged up by stupid lizards.

Unfortunately, unless you are using Lore of Metal, the very common Tzeenth w/ shields block is going to be hard for you to beat with anything other than your TG or Stegadons.

Last bit of advice is to choose the units you engage wisely. Not all Chaos Warrior blocks are the same. If you see two blocks of warriors with shields and a block that's painted red with two hand weapons, kill / shoot the ones without shields. You should also for the most part just ignore a Warshrine of Tzeentch. T6, 4 wounds, 4+ armor and 3+ ward is just wasting your time shots. I love to screen them in front of my warriors in hopes that people will waste time needing 6's and 6's to hurt them.

Another thing to consider is simply avoiding certain units. If you see a Chaos Lord on foot with some killy gear in a slow warrior block, deploy away from him and either dance away or lure him off with skinks. (Luring with skinks is a good strategy vs Frenzy units as well.)

Yeah i made the mistake of charging a warshrine with my Temple Guard last game, and im working on getting an ancient Stegadon precisely for taking our the more heavily armored chaos warriors. Now i can see the damage potential with Salamanders, but what about Razordons? That 2 artillery dice stand and shoot reaction sounds like it would do well against a big block of marauders, but I never hear much about those units. Are they just outclassed by other Rare units such as the Stegadons and Salamanders?


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And thank you all for the advice by the way. I do appreciate it.

Yeah that Engine of the Gods thing seems like it would put a dent in my operation Forgefather.
These guys are really giving you ideas to take me out....I'm scared:(


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Awwww come on Forgefather why all the effort for me

Lore of Metal + Engine of the Gods= you win!

Because you are impeding the plans of the Old Ones, McNasty. hahaha

Yeah man I say get that over-size lizzie so i can make it a feast for my marauders

It's okay McNasty.

VS lizards is still pretty favored to you. Use Lore of Nurgle and aim Cloying Quagmire at his Stegadons and anything with a Scar Vet in it.

Step 1.

Initiative.

Gods Engine fails except on a 1.

Step 2.

Armor Save. If they pass, they die.

Gods Engine dies on a 2 or better.


Works well on pretty much everything unless he is buffing with Lore of Light. Just dont let the initiative spell go off.


A lot of people say Vortex is better because it's initiative or remove, but Quagmire doesn't eat your units, misfire, or require a 25 to cast.

And don't let the Amphibious thing ward you off. As far as I know, only Skinks are amphibious.

The best part of Nurgle Lore is that it's in an old book, and the BRB says that spells without classifications on them in old books are only limited by the text within the spell.

So you can pretty much cast any of Nurgles spells in combat. I think one is classed as a MM but thats it. If it doesnt say you cant cast it in combat, then you can.




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And technically, if the Engine is considered a War Machine, it auto-fails initiative tests.

Thunderfrog wrote:And technically, if the Engine is considered a War Machine, it auto-fails initiative tests.

Monster.