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hey guys! im kinda new with the rules and army structure of 40k so up untill now (5 years) i've just bought what i thought would look cool or serve a purpose in one of my three private armies (dark eldar not so much, i just inherited them )

i'm pretty good with painting so once i convince mum to do a proper photo shoot (my camera is crappy!) of my miniatures, just think 'reaaly nice looking'

okay, now down to business. i want to make an IG army, prefferably elysian (can elysians have kasrkin or stormies?) and this is what i have so far:

1 valkrie- rocket pods/helstrike interchangeable, nose mounted bolter, rear hatch mounted bolter, door mounted punisher (or any other type of rapid fire weapon i can call it ), lascannon and multilaser mounted on side of cockpit.

1 sentinel- 1 autocannon, 1 missle pod, 1 hellstrike missle.

9 kasrkin - 1 sniper, 1 grenade launcher, 1 heavy flamer, 6 hellguns.

1 kasrkin sergeant/ army leader- power sword, hell pistol, bolter.

5 elysian vetrans- 1 flamer (or meltagun, not sure which yet..), 4 shotguns.


so as you can see i need a little help structuring it. please, critcise but remember this - i don't know how much the points are so i need someone else to write up an improved list....

thanks to everyone who responds!

do you have codex/rulebook?

If you want to play Elysian, I assume you want to play air cavalary?
First things first, what point level you want to play?
When we know that we can give you advice.

loner wrote:If you want to play Elysian, I assume you want to play air cavalary?
First things first, what point level you want to play?
When we know that we can give you advice.

ok, i was thinking a medium sized army that i can use in a game but still bring to an apoc battle and make a dent in the other side, but still taper down and use in tournies, so (i think this is medium, tell me if it's not!) i'll start off trying to get a 1500 or so point army, is that good? once that is achieved, i'll set my sights for double that! but for now, around 1500. (p.s if 1500 is to big, i'll go 1000 - 1250)

oh yeah, and i like the sound of air cavalary, but if that means i have to get a whole platoon of valkries, vendettas and vultures, i may have to decline. could you point me towards some pictures of finished air cavalary armies? also, if i have one or two tauros assault vehicles, would it still be air cavalary?

Devastator wrote:do you have codex/rulebook?

no and no... i know ' noob alert!, but i haven't been to gw in at least a year and one year ago i couldn't be screwed spending $80 on a rule book one and a half years ago and i knew a new codex was coming, but now those things are on my wish list 'cuz i'm going to really need them now!!!!

For now, you don't need the codex yet, but when you are going to play regularly, you will need the codex.

Onto the next subject, the photo's: http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/2010/3/1/75a467d4c9676a87b14c65af7b7de7c0_16019.jpg__thumb
http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2010/2/6/81038_sm-Imperial%20Guard,%20Photoshop,%20Pig%20Iron,%20Valkyrie.jpg
The photo's are from fellow dakkaites.
Try searching the gallery: Vendatta, valkyrie. You can find a lot more.
If you want, you can even search for old battle reports.

1500 points is the normal game size.
If you are a beginner, I would suggest 500 points, then 1000, then 1500 and if you want then Apoc. 40k is quite expensive, so you should think twice about what you buy. It can be very expensive and if you have all the models in one go, you probably get problems with painting them.

The following list is a starters list, it's not brilliant but considering the models you have, it's quite nice and cheap.

Lord commissar: 80
PW

VETS: 110
3 x melta, PW

VETS: 110
3 x melta, PW

Valkyrie: 100

Valkyrie: 100

The lord commissars joins one of the veterans squad, you keep both of the valk's in reserve and when they arrive, let them outflank.
You can use the stormtroopers as a veteran squad. For the other squad, you can get those click-fit guardsmen. (7.50 euro for 5), buy another valkyrie, look for a commissar model and you are ready to go.

A small word of advice, the imperial guard is incredibly versatile. You can do almost everything. Try fielding every unit in the codex atleast once. When you do that, you can look what units you like/ perform better then others. Maybe you want to change your style and you want an artillery regiment, a reconnaissance regiment or (my favourite) an all-infantry regiment.

loner wrote:Don't worry about the codexes, you can find them online.
(I ain't gonna post links because that isn't allowed...)
For now, you don't need the codex yet, but when you are going to play regularly, you will need the codex.

Onto the next subject, the photo's: http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/2010/3/1/75a467d4c9676a87b14c65af7b7de7c0_16019.jpg__thumb
http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2010/2/6/81038_sm-Imperial%20Guard,%20Photoshop,%20Pig%20Iron,%20Valkyrie.jpg
The photo's are from fellow dakkaites.
Try searching the gallery: Vendatta, valkyrie. You can find a lot more.
If you want, you can even search for old battle reports.

1500 points is the normal game size.
If you are a beginner, I would suggest 500 points, then 1000, then 1500 and if you want then Apoc. 40k is quite expensive, so you should think twice about what you buy. It can be very expensive and if you have all the models in one go, you probably get problems with painting them.

The following list is a starters list, it's not brilliant but considering the models you have, it's quite nice and cheap.

Lord commissar: 80
PW

VETS: 110
3 x melta, PW

VETS: 110
3 x melta, PW

Valkyrie: 100

Valkyrie: 100

The lord commissars joins one of the veterans squad, you keep both of the valk's in reserve and when they arrive, let them outflank.
You can use the stormtroopers as a veteran squad. For the other squad, you can get those click-fit guardsmen. (7.50 euro for 5), buy another valkyrie, look for a commissar model and you are ready to go.

A small word of advice, the imperial guard is incredibly versatile. You can do almost everything. Try fielding every unit in the codex atleast once. When you do that, you can look what units you like/ perform better then others. Maybe you want to change your style and you want an artillery regiment, a reconnaissance regiment or (my favourite) an all-infantry regiment.

cool! thanks for the advice. i wasn't too concerned about leaving out my sentinel because the way i assembled him wasn't to legit and he was a gift, so a show piece.

with the vets, i have a squad of 10 kasrkin and a squad of 5 FW elysian shotty vetrans, will that do?i am more than happy to get another valk as soon as i have the spare money, i goddamned love that vehicle! also, if i want to add another squad of dudes should i buy another valk to go with them? (p.s i have only just ordeered the shotty vets, so it could be up to two more weeks waiting....)

Are you going to play tournaments or just friendly games?
If you want to play tournaments, then you need something that is clearly a guardsman.
However, in friendly games, you can use something else, like toysoldiers, untill you have bought another squad of guardsman.

If you like the theme air cav. then you could buy another valk and a squad, but if you want a ''hardcore'' tournament list, then you need to look for different options.

loner wrote:Are you going to play tournaments or just friendly games?
If you want to play tournaments, then you need something that is clearly a guardsman.
However, in friendly games, you can use something else, like toysoldiers, untill you have bought another squad of guardsman.

If you like the theme air cav. then you could buy another valk and a squad, but if you want a ''hardcore'' tournament list, then you need to look for different options.

hmm, probably friendly and a little bit of tournies

also, how would i extend the armie later?

I would definitely agree with loner on this one, get a feel for the army you would like to play before you go out and sink a ton of money into models. Theres nothing worse than buying 4 valkyries, and then realizing that they don't fit your style of play. Trust me, I know On an unrelated topic, I'm very glad I was able to trade said valks for 4 leman russ tanks, so it all worked out in the end

If I were you, I would start with quite a number of friendlies.
The tournaments are for ''hardcore'' or WAAC people.
These people will wipe you off the table, tell you that you suck, laugh/ make fun of your painting and refuse to give you good advise. (Not EVERY tournament player is like that, just quite a number...)
Try going to the FLGS and ask around, there a probably quite a lot of veterans who are willing to help. The best would be a fellow IG player.
This player can be quite usefull. He probably knows what works good and what works better.
The advice from a player face-to-face is probably worth a lot more then from me or someone else on a internet forum.

The first 10-15 games you will probably lose, just try to field what you like/ looks nice/ has a nice fluff.
You will notice that some units perform better then others and some units you will like more then others.
Try to ask a veteran for advice or for comments.

Keep track of your battles, you learn a lot of your mistakes.
And as last again: Don't waste your money on things you won't use.

I would suggest getting a rulebook. Yes they sell the Big Red Book, which is a pretty penny. However, there is a small version that is sold with Assault on Black Reach. GW doesn't sell that seperate, but I'm sure you could find one on Ebay for less than 20 bucks. I really don't think you are going to get very far without learning the rules first. Also pick up the codex. Reading that cover to cover will help you really decide what it is you want to do with your army.

loner wrote:If I were you, I would start with quite a number of friendlies.
The tournaments are for ''hardcore'' or WAAC people.
These people will wipe you off the table, tell you that you suck, laugh/ make fun of your painting and refuse to give you good advise. (Not EVERY tournament player is like that, just quite a number...)
Try going to the FLGS and ask around, there a probably quite a lot of veterans who are willing to help. The best would be a fellow IG player.
This player can be quite usefull. He probably knows what works good and what works better.
The advice from a player face-to-face is probably worth a lot more then from me or someone else on a internet forum.

The first 10-15 games you will probably lose, just try to field what you like/ looks nice/ has a nice fluff.
You will notice that some units perform better then others and some units you will like more then others.
Try to ask a veteran for advice or for comments.

Keep track of your battles, you learn a lot of your mistakes.
And as last again: Don't waste your money on things you won't use.

cool, thanks for the advise! just got a pm saying around about the same thing , reading the codex now....

btw can i use my kasrkin squad (it's basically just your average out-of-the-box squad ) as vetrans? someone said that if i used tham as vets they would not be able to use hot shots? also one of my kasrkin's hot shot is coverted to look like a sniper (and i'm proud of it ) can i pretend it's a hotshot still seeing as kasrkin/ storm troopers/ vetrans can not use snipers?

If you use your stormtroopers as veterans, they count as veterans.
So they have the veteran equipment and the veteran stats.

If you want you can add snipers, but you can also say it's a meltagunner.

Do you think it's really worth it to drop the stormtrooper stats for vetrans though? Argh this can get confuzzzleing......

P.S i'm off to go find pics of finished armies so i can get an idea where this is headed

Monk1junk1 wrote:
Do you think it's really worth it to drop the stormtrooper stats for vetrans though? Argh this can get confuzzzleing......

For the most part Veterans are superior to stormtroopers in their options and point cost. That being said I do use stormtroopers (though I wouldn't recommend them until at least 1750 points) and the tactical flexibility they have. Keep them cheap and small, though. The hot-shot lasguns are pretty useless so s 5-man squads to get melta and plasma weapons where you need them pronto. The only stormtrooper builds I would take are:

x5 Stormtroopers - x2 Meltaguns, Chimera
x5 Stormtroopers - x2 Meltaguns
x5 Stormtroopers - x2 Plasmaguns, Chimera

could you tell me if this sounds good? i kinda based it on an army i saw in white dwarf (363- may 2009) except i took out the two chimeras and put in another valkyrie and a vendetta. also, this is my longterm goal, for now i'm just waiting for my veterans to arive from forgeworld and to get a chance to pop off to GW to get a commisar lord, another valkyrie and a 5 man squad of dudes.

eventually i'll get two cadian battle forces and see if i can trade the two sentinels in them for something cool, or sell them on ebay so i can buy some stuff from FW, i really want a taurus assault vehicle to put on display. i'll still have an extra command squad... i could trade that as well i suppose


2 (or 3) x valkyrie - 1x multilaser and hellstrike, 1x lascannon and multiple rocket pods

1x vendetta

heavy weapons squad- lascannon, 2xmortar or missle launchers

[shock troops - heavy bolter team, vox caster, seargent with laspistol and chainsword, krak grenades, one melta]

[shock troops - heavy bolter team, vox caster, seargent with laspistol and chainsword, krak grenades, one melta]

6x storm troopers - 1x grenade launcher, 1xmeltagun, krak grenades
1x commisar with boltgun

6x storm troopers - krak grenades, 1x flamer, 1 x plasma gun, 1 x seargant with power sword and bolter.
1 commisar lord with boltpistol and power sword

command squad- vox caster, officer of the fleet, master of ordanance, regimental standard, medic, veteran with plasma gun.

[shock troops , mortar bolter team, vox caster, seargent with laspistol and chainsword, krak grenades, one melta]

[shock troops , mortar team, vox caster, seargent with laspistol and chainsword, krak grenades, one melta]

10x veterans (elysian drop troops) - Sergeant, Vox Caster, Grenade Launcher and Demolition charge, 9xlasguns

10x veterans,(elysian drop troops) 4xshotguns, 1x melta, 5xlasguns
OR
10x veterans (elysian drop troops) 8x shotguns, 2x melta


if you could help again by editing it to make it better and/or adding the points totals that would be cool.

Monk1junk1 wrote:could you tell me if this sounds good? i kinda based it on an army i saw in white dwarf (363- may 2009) except i took out the two chimeras and put in another valkyrie and a vendetta. also, this is my longterm goal, for now i'm just waiting for my veterans to arive from forgeworld and to get a chance to pop off to GW to get a commisar lord, another valkyrie and a 5 man squad of dudes.

eventually i'll get two cadian battle forces and see if i can trade the two sentinels in them for something cool, or sell them on ebay so i can buy some stuff from FW, i really want a taurus assault vehicle to put on display. i'll still have an extra command squad... i could trade that as well i suppose


2 (or 3) x valkyrie - 1x multilaser and hellstrike, 1x lascannon and multiple rocket pods

1x vendetta

heavy weapons squad- lascannon, 2xmortar or missle launchers

[shock troops - heavy bolter team, vox caster, seargent with laspistol and chainsword, krak grenades, one melta]

[shock troops - heavy bolter team, vox caster, seargent with laspistol and chainsword, krak grenades, one melta]

6x storm troopers - 1x grenade launcher, 1xmeltagun, krak grenades
1x commisar with boltgun

6x storm troopers - krak grenades, 1x flamer, 1 x plasma gun, 1 x seargant with power sword and bolter.
1 commisar lord with boltpistol and power sword

command squad- vox caster, officer of the fleet, master of ordanance, regimental standard, medic, veteran with plasma gun.

[shock troops , mortar bolter team, vox caster, seargent with laspistol and chainsword, krak grenades, one melta]

[shock troops , mortar team, vox caster, seargent with laspistol and chainsword, krak grenades, one melta]

10x veterans (elysian drop troops) - Sergeant, Vox Caster, Grenade Launcher and Demolition charge, 9xlasguns

10x veterans,(elysian drop troops) 4xshotguns, 1x melta, 5xlasguns
OR
10x veterans (elysian drop troops) 8x shotguns, 2x melta

First: Don't take ANY army list from WD. White dwarf wants the opponent to win, so they make the worst army list possible...

For the rest mixing weapons ain't a good idea.
A single lascannon and two mortars isn't going to hurt anything.
Same goes for the command squad, way too many points spend upon. and way too versatile.
If you give your veterans melta weapons, give them shotguns. Both are assault weapons and have the same range.

How many points is everything and how many points is this list? Then we can help you better.
In low point games, around 1000 - 1500, the Master of Ordnance isn't very useful. He needs bigger formations to be useful.
I don't think you need a commissar with the storm troopers either, but that is just my opinion.

Oh, haha I didn' t realize the fact WD might rip you off....
I am working on fixing this list but I wouldn't bet on it being to good, all my other attempts weren't I might just end ip sticking to your idea of a small army and just go out and get another valk + a commissar. Also, the army in the article I read was 1750 points, so I'm guessing this one will be at least a few hundred off, but as I said earlier, I will probably just scrap this entire list.

Read the codex, learn it off by heart, that's what you need to do,try getting some tanks in their to support ur troops.

Ps were you in aus?

I'll post here later tonight with a few things from my perspective.

But I 100% agree. Don't use anything in WD (or most things on the GW website) as a starting block for you list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay, organized into a way that is a bit easier to read and understand. Also put in the points for each unit. Next post will be the actual review (sorry about the triple posts).

The first thing to note, though is that your platoons are illegal. You say 'shock troops' but don't specify any platoon command squads or if there are 1 or 2 platoons. A platoon needs at minimum:

1 Platoon Command Squad
2 Infantry Squads

and can take up up to:

5 Infantry Squads
3 Special Weapon Squads
5 Heavy Weapon Squads

Monk1junk1 wrote:

HQ

Company Command Squad- Vox, Officer of the Fleet, Master of Ordinance, Regimental Standard, Medic, Plasma Gun - 175

Lord Commisar - Bolt Pistol, Power Sword - xx

Elite

x6 Storm Troopers - Grenade Launcher, Meltagun, Krak Grenades, Commisar w/ Boltgun - 157

x6 Storm Troopers - Krak Grenades, Flamer, Plasma Gun, Power Sword, Boltgun - 137

Troops

Infantry Platoon

Platoon Command Squad - ??? - ???

Infantry Squad - Heavy Bolter, Vox, Krak Grenades, Meltagun - 80

Infantry Squad - Heavy Bolter, Vox, Krak Grenades, Meltagun - 80

Heavy Weapons Squad - Lascannon, 2 Mortar/Missile - xx

Infantry Platoon

Platoon Command Squad - ??? - ???

Infantry Squad - Mortar, Vox , Krak Grenades, Meltagun - 75

Infantry Squad - Mortar, Vox, Krak Grenades, Meltagun - 75

Veteran Squad - Vox , Grenade Launcher, Demolitions - 110

Veteran Squad - 2 Meltaguns, Shotguns - 90

Fast Attack

Valkyrie Squadron - Valkyrie (Multilaser + Hellstrike), Valkyrie (Lascannon + Rocket Pods) - 240 (I think)

Vendetta - 130

Total: ???


There, that is much easier to read. Don't bother listing every piece of equipment. Just any weapon swaps or upgrades you paid points for.

Okay, an over-arching view on the army as a whole is that it is very unfocused and scattered. You have a lot of bloated gear that could be dropped and there are many units that can be optimized further. Not much firepower in here either and a heavy air presence in a guard list pretty much requires you to be able to cripple a good chunk of an enemy's army in one go.

When you build a list try to keep in mind what role you want for each unit and how it fits into the rest of the army. A rule of thumb with IG is that you want 3 units to handle one job because:

1) The first unit will die
2) The second unit will miss
3) The third unit will get the job done

This doesn't mean you have to spam the same three units (chimelta spam is too predictable and easy to beat in a tournament environment IMO), just have at least 3 different units that can handle the same task.

Monk1junk1 wrote:

HQ

Company Command Squad- Vox, Officer of the Fleet, Master of Ordinance, Regimental Standard, Medic, Plasma Gun - 175

Waaaaaaay too expensive for what it does....which isn't much. What do you want this squad to do? Sit back and give orders, be mobile and deadly, or something completely different? Right now all you have is a bunch of expensive upgrades without a huge amount of focus.

For example, why do you have the Officer of the Fleet? Are you expecting a lot of enemies to be in reserve? Is he the only thing you have at your disposal defend against reserves/outflank/DS?

Medic is just plain expensive and not worth taking in an IG army. FNP on 5 T3 5+ dudes is pretty terrible for as much as it costs.

Master of Ordinance is innacurate as all heck and probably won't hit much. That and you have to keep stationary in order to use him. Does he fit the Elysian theme you are going for (could be a bomber strike)?

Lord Commisar - Bolt Pistol, Power Sword - xx

Once again, what is this guy doing? You don't really have any need for his abilities so why take him?

Elite

x6 Storm Troopers - Grenade Launcher, Meltagun, Krak Grenades, Commisar w/ Boltgun - 157

x6 Storm Troopers - Krak Grenades, Flamer, Plasma Gun, Power Sword, Boltgun - 137

Never mix and match weapon roles; take 2 of the same. What is the point of the commissar? What role are these squads filling? Keep them small (5-man) and focused on a single job.

Troops

Infantry Platoon

Platoon Command Squad - ??? - ???

Infantry Squad - Heavy Bolter, Vox, Krak Grenades, Meltagun - 80

Infantry Squad - Heavy Bolter, Vox, Krak Grenades, Meltagun - 80

Heavy Weapons Squad - Lascannon, 2 Mortar/Missile - xx

You still need at least 1 PCS (2 if you are taking 2 platoons) in order for the list to be legal. Heavy Bolters are crap weapons for IG. We are already very good at killing infantry so why even bother. Autocannons, Missiles, and Lascannons are loads better (remember to still define the role of each squad).

Meltaguns (short-range) in squads with heavy weapons(long-range and need to stay still)? Doesn't make much sense. Why all the vox-casters? They are all that great and your lists doesn't rely on massed platoons in order to work. If you want to take them, combine you infantry squads into 20-man squads with heavy weapons and throw in a commissar. Other than that, forget the voxes. Don't bother with Krak Grenades, you should never be assaulting in general.

Never mix and match weapons in the heavy weapons squads either. Keep them focused. I'd only put autocannons or missiles here and then I'd take at minimum 3 or 4. At T3, heavy weapons squads are very easy to instant-death and their low leadership and model count means if you lose one or two models you have good chance of running for the hills.

Infantry Platoon

Platoon Command Squad - ??? - ???

Infantry Squad - Mortar, Vox , Krak Grenades, Meltagun - 75

Infantry Squad - Mortar, Vox, Krak Grenades, Meltagun - 75

Pretty much the same as above. Though why the mortars? They rely aren't adding anything. Autocannons, Missiles, or Lascannons would help out more.

Veteran Squad - Vox , Grenade Launcher, Demolitions - 110

Veteran Squad - 2 Meltaguns, Shotguns - 90

Nungunz wrote:Okay, an over-arching view on the army as a whole is that it is very unfocused and scattered. You have a lot of bloated gear that could be dropped and there are many units that can be optimized further. Not much firepower in here either and a heavy air presence in a guard list pretty much requires you to be able to cripple a good chunk of an enemy's army in one go.



That's really all I have right now. Take some time and go over the list again. Define the roles of individual units a bit more and then take a step back and think about how the army will work as a whole. Right now it's a fairly weak list. Don't worry about that, though. I was in the same place when I first started up with Imperial Guard.

wow, your awesome!

thing is, i probably need to read the codex 6+ more times before i can use your advice to it's maximum efficiency.

i better go and have a look at it again, but prepare for the 3rd worst list you've ever heard if i post it here

i may post a more in depth post replying to yourpost later, but i gtg for now.

p.s, what do you reccomend for my command? should i keep a commisar as the hq or would the platoon command squads count as hq choices?

If you want the all air-cavalary with everything in valk's, I think the CCS is more usefull.
Give the 4 veterans a meltagun or a plasma gun and you are ready to go.

If you want to have a platoon on the ground, don't bother. A static army just is't the thing in 5th edition.
Here's something I would advice you to read.
http://www.ailarian.com/folera/articles/tacticas/transport-defense.html
It explains why two or three autocannons still aren't enough.
(Article is from a fellow Dakkaite.)

Monk1junk1 wrote:
wow, your awesome!

thing is, i probably need to read the codex 6+ more times before i can use your advice to it's maximum efficiency.

i better go and have a look at it again, but prepare for the 3rd worst list you've ever heard if i post it here

You should read the comments on my first couple of army lists. They were pretty scathing.

p.s, what do you reccomend for my command? should i keep a commisar as the hq or would the platoon command squads count as hq choices?

The only real use I've found for the Lord Commissar is baby-sitting heavy weapon squads so they don't run away once they've lost a model or two. Only really useful if using 5+ heavy weapon squads. He's okay in CC, but not great and is pretty bad at range. He's a support HQ that only a few builds can benefit from.

Platoon Command Squads (PCS) are not HQ choices, they are troop choices. You must have one PCS for every platoon that you field. What you are thinking is the Company Command Squad (CCS) and will probably give you the most distance. How you load them out depends on what job you want them to have. I general, though, try to keep it under 150-160 points (even with a chimera my most expensive HQ has been 145) unless you are using one of the HQ Special Characters or using a plasma-bomb unit.

HQ
• Company Command Squad

Elite
• x10 Storm Troopers - Grenade Launcher, Meltagun, Krak Grenades, sergeant w/ Boltgun – Mounted in Vendetta

Troops

Infantry Platoon
• Platoon Command Squad -
• Combined Infantry Squad - Meltagun x3 -
• Heavy Weapons Squad – 3x Autocannon
• Veteran Squad - Grenade Launcher, Demolitions – 110 Mounted in Valkyrie

Infantry Platoon
• Platoon Command Squad –
• Combined Infantry Squad - Meltagun x3 –
• Heavy Weapons Squad – 3x Lascannon
• Veteran Squad – 2x Meltaguns, Shotguns – 90, Mounted in Valkyrie

Fast Attack
• Valkyrie Squadron - Valkyrie (Multilaser + Rocket Pods), Valkyrie (Multilaser + Rocket Pods) - 240 (I think)
• Vendetta - 130


that was my kinda updated list,

i got some questions though:

how many guys is recommended for combined squads? Are they ok idea if this is a thing that’s going to happen:
1) The first unit will die
2) The second unit will miss
3) The third unit will get the job done
If two/three different squads gives you two/three times the number of meltaguns/plasma launchers then should i have them split?

Should I include chimeras or Taurus assault vehicles for some beefing up?

How about a list like this?
I tried to make it look like your list with a couple of changes.

CCS: 110
4 x plasma

Priest: 60
Eviscator

VETS: 100
3 x melta

VETS: 100
3 x melta

VETS: 100
3 x melta

VETS: 115
3 x plasma

PCS: 90
3 x plasma

IS: 120
Meltagun, meltabombs, powerweapon x 2, commissar
IS: 120
Meltagun, meltabombs, powerweapon x 2, commissar
IS: 75
Meltagun, meltabombs, powerweapon
IS: 75
Meltagun, meltabombs, powerweapon

Vendatta x 3: 390
Valkyrie x 3: 300

TOTAL: 1750

Allright here are the tactics:

The veterans, the CCS and the PCS ride in the valk's and vendatta's.
The melta vets ride in the vendatta and the plasmagunners ride in the valk's.
The priest joins the 40 men blob squad. This squad runs across the field and charge/fire. If the squad gets assaulted, don't worry. You got enough power weapons/bodies and the priest allows re-roll in close combat.
The evi. counts as a power fist.
Though I would remove the platoon if I were you, you gain 390 points. Enough to field a couple of stormtroopers.
Don't give the stormtroopers a chimera, just let them deepstrike. They are a suicide squad and thus need to be cheap.

How about a list like this?
I tried to make it look like your list with a couple of changes.

CCS: 110
4 x plasma


Priest: 60
Eviscator

VETS: 100
3 x melta

VETS: 100
3 x melta

VETS: 100
3 x melta

VETS: 115
3 x plasma

PCS: 90
3 x plasma

IS: 120
Meltagun, meltabombs, powerweapon x 2, commissar
IS: 120
Meltagun, meltabombs, powerweapon x 2, commissar
IS: 75
Meltagun, meltabombs, powerweapon
IS: 75
Meltagun, meltabombs, powerweapon

what does IS stand for? it didn't show up... also, why do i need the two commisars? to me they just seem like $50 more out of my wallet.....

Vendatta x 3: 390
Valkyrie x 3: 300

This is going to be expensive for my wallet haha, but i really like the idea of half the army on the ground and the other half screaming overhead in valkyries. can't com[plain on price though, i did ask for a long term type list .

TOTAL: 1750

Allright here are the tactics:

The veterans, the CCS and the PCS ride in the valk's and vendatta's.
The melta vets ride in the vendatta and the plasmagunners ride in the valk's.
The priest joins the 40 men blob squad. This squad runs across the field and charge/fire. If the squad gets assaulted, don't worry. You got enough power weapons/bodies and the priest allows re-roll in close combat.
The evi. counts as a power fist.
Though I would remove the platoon if I were you, you gain 390 points. Enough to field a couple of stormtroopers.
Don't give the stormtroopers a chimera, just let them deepstrike. They are a suicide squad and thus need to be cheap.

hmm stormies... how many would i be able to field? the GW metal models are expensive (not in points) so i think i could use the 10 i already have + some elysians with respirators.


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just to say everyone, thanks for all the help! at least now i won't go into a game and get OWNED! i'll get beaten, but not owned


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HQ
• Company Command Squad – 4x plasma - 110 points

Elite
• x10 Storm Troopers - Grenade Launcher, Meltagun, sergeant w/ Boltgun – Mounted in Vendetta- 180

Troops
• Veteran Squad – 2x Meltaguns, Shotguns, Grenadiers - Mounted in Valkyrie– 110
• Veteran Squad – 3x Grenade Launcher, Demolitions - Mounted in Valkyrie – 115
• Veteran Squad – 3x Grenade Launcher, Demolitions - Mounted in Valkyrie – 115

Infantry Platoon
• Platoon Command Squad – x4 plasma- 90
• Infantry Squad – Meltagun, Power Weapon, Meltabombs - 75
• Infantry Squad - Meltagun, Power Weapon - 75
• Infantry Squad - Meltagun, Power Weapon - 75
• Heavy Weapons Squad – 3x Lascannon - 75

Fast Attack
• Valkyrie Squadron (3x Valkyrie) - Rocket Pods, Heavy bolters - 360
• Vendetta- 130
Total- 1500





how's this?

IS stands for infantry squad. The reason you'd have two commissars in the above post is because you would have 2 20-man blobs each with a commissar to keep them in line.

If you are worried about cost, you can always convert up models from existing sprues. I have made many an officer and advisor using left over tank commander, shock troops, and command squad bits. My psyker battle squad is entirely created from Flagellant Warband combined with cadian shock troop bits. Other than that check out ebay and other wargame retailers online. At a lot of places you can find 20% - 30% off of GW prices. I never buy from GW directly. If I need something ASAP I get 15% at my local store or I just find a place online for 25% off.

All in all a much better list than before.

HQ
• Company Command Squad – 4x plasma - 110 points

Looks good to me. These guys should be mounted up or they will be chewed apart.

Elite
• x10 Storm Troopers - Grenade Launcher, Meltagun, sergeant w/ Boltgun – Mounted in Vendetta- 180

I'l split these guys into 2 groups of 5 with a pair of meltaguns each (forget the bolter). You'll need the melta in your list since your veterans and CCS lack melta weapons. Take them in chimeras or just leave them on their own and DS them.

Troops
• Veteran Squad – 2x Meltaguns, Shotguns, Grenadiers - Mounted in Valkyrie– 110
• Veteran Squad – 3x Grenade Launcher, Demolitions - Mounted in Valkyrie – 115
• Veteran Squad – 3x Grenade Launcher, Demolitions - Mounted in Valkyrie – 115

Veteran squad 1 could use 1 more melta. I'd drop Grenadiers for Demolitions. Note you don't need demolitions to make this list work. If you need the points, drop demolitions. Grenade launchers are a bit 'meh' on vets, especially in your list as you need the heavy firepower on foot. I'd suggest proxying grenade launchers, plasma, and melta in these guys before you glue any weapons in place.

Infantry Platoon
• Platoon Command Squad – x4 plasma- 90

Ick, drop plasma like the plague. It's expensive as hell and not worth it on BS3 models. Grenade Launchers + Autocannon or Meltaguns are good. If you go meltagun take a chimera.

• Infantry Squad – Meltagun, Power Weapon, Meltabombs - 75
• Infantry Squad - Meltagun, Power Weapon - 75
• Infantry Squad - Meltagun, Power Weapon - 75

I don't really see the point in the power blob. You already have 4 skimmers rushing forward to mess with the enemy. Keep these infantry squads hanging back with heavy weapons and keep them in cover near objectives in your deployment zone. Autocannon or lascannons are nice to help pop enemy armor before you veteran hit their lines. Though I would suggest 2 20-man squads to do this (with autocannons).

• Heavy Weapons Squad – 3x Lascannon - 75

Meh, expensive and easy to kill. I'd rather hide the lascannons in infantry squads. You're call here, though.

Fast Attack
• Valkyrie Squadron (3x Valkyrie) - Rocket Pods, Heavy bolters - 360
• Vendetta- 130

I would split these up amongs the 3 FA slots. Squadroning is very dangerous to vehicles (especially AV12 skimmers). Something like:

x2 Vendetta
x2 Vendetta
x1 Valkyrie

or

x1 Vendetta
x1 Vendetta
x2 Valkyrie

or

x1 Vendetta
x1 Vendetta
x1 Vendetta

You really want the Vendettas over the Valkyries in your list.





I hate to say it, but you may want to drop the stormtroopers completely and try to pick up some chimeras or other cheap vehicles (Hydras or something). 4 AV12 Skimmers isn't very hard to kill at 1500 points. I'm pretty sure I can kill 2 of them and damage the rest with my 1500 point list and still bust up the infantry a bit.

*yawn* well, I'm about to go to bed, so I can't say to much right now other than thanks for the reply! I think I'm slowly getting better at list making. Also, is there a way I can hide my stormy models in a veteran squad? I really love them and would hate to leave them out, so if I can get the models in my list I will be uber happy

I see what you mean about dropping the plasma, I only Put them in 'cuz I thought you recommended it.

I mainly put the heavy weapons in because they come with the battle force (I was going to trAde the sentinel for another infantry squad) and I thought they would beef up the army.

With the power blob, I thought I cut out some of the power weapons before I posted, hmmm must have forgotten.


I'll look at the list again tomorrow Afternoon, I can't in the morning because I have swimming on early and dakka is forbidden ( as in web filter, if it wasn't for these I'd be on asap) at school.



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*yawn* well, I'm about to go to bed, so I can't say to much right now other than thanks for the reply! I think I'm slowly getting better at list making. Also, is there a way I can hide my stormy models in a veteran squad? I really love them and would hate to leave them out, so if I can get the models in my list I will be uber happy

I see what you mean about dropping the plasma, I only Put them in 'cuz I thought you recommended it.

I mainly put the heavy weapons in because they come with the battle force (I was going to trAde the sentinel for another infantry squad) and I thought they would beef up the army.

With the power blob, I thought I cut out some of the power weapons before I posted, hmmm must have forgotten.


I'll look at the list again tomorrow Afternoon, I can't in the morning because I have swimming on early and dakka is forbidden ( as in web filter, if it wasn't for these I'd be on asap) at school.

Monk1junk1 wrote:*yawn* well, I'm about to go to bed, so I can't say to much right now other than thanks for the reply! I think I'm slowly getting better at list making. Also, is there a way I can hide my stormy models in a veteran squad? I really love them and would hate to leave them out, so if I can get the models in my list I will be uber happy

Bump up the point value to 1750 or drop some points else where to get some better equipment on them or take 2 squads? I do like stormies a lot myself, but I just think another 1-2 vehicles would help make you vendetta/valkyries more survivable.

I see what you mean about dropping the plasma, I only Put them in 'cuz I thought you recommended it.

Plasma is good....if you take it on the CCS or Veterans. At 15 points a pop plasma is pricey so you want to make every shot count and the best way to do that is to be able to aim. BS3 platoon command squads just don't do that very well IMO. If anything if you do load 3 or 4 plasma in a squad you'll probably want them in a transport so they can get close enough to use it. A lot of armies will sit back and try to avoid them or just shoot them up. Guardsmen on foot are very squishy and the command squads don't have the extra wounds like veterans before they start loosing special weapons.

I mainly put the heavy weapons in because they come with the battle force (I was going to trAde the sentinel for another infantry squad) and I thought they would beef up the army.

They help you out a lot. But at T3 all it takes is on decent multilaser, scatter laser, brainleech devourer shot to kill most if not all of the squad and send them running. On average 1 chimera will kill 1 or 2 of them with it's multilaser (fewer if the heavy weapon are in cover). I've had 3 entire heavy weapons squads killed in one turn just because of instant-death weapons.

I'm not saying they are bad in any way. Just hide them in infantry squads or take at 3 or 4 of them.