Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So, as all respectible ork players know, the deff dread has no place in any competitive list besides kan wall, unless you just absolutley positivly have nowhere else to spend the ponits. And even then, it's still not really an excuse. You could be taking killa kans or something much more effective. Of course, i've heard of the dread blitz, with 5 completly tooled out dreads, but this still strikes me as a fun list. I mean, who would take five dreads over 9 kans and 2 dreads?

So, how do we fix the dread? Well, lets take a look and space marine dreads. Most marine dreads are riflemen, or sometimes equipted with multi-melta and in a drop pod with dccw to kill a tank and then assualt its cargo on the next turn if it can. And then die. Well, what do we find out there? Both options don't help us, because a single ork can hit a target to save his life, and orks can't deepstrike (Although I have always thought that all ork units should be able to deepstrike veia an ork shoving a dread out of a kill krooza and hoping for the best, but it's sadly not so ). The exeption, of course, is blood angels. Blood angels have great assault dreads. A cunnin' boy, particularly blood axes, could learn a lot from 'dem humie dreads!

So, obviously, deff dreads need to be a lot scarier in cc. Something similar to blood talons would be great, and perhaps a 15 point upgrade to "Make it 'ard," and give it 13/13/11(or 10) could make it more survivable. I've thought about a "Blitz Charge" special rule, that states, when charging, that if the dread's attacks aren't equal to the number of models in base contact with it, the deff dread's attacks increase to that amount. It makes the dread very scary on the charge, and if they deploy more carefully to minimize the models in base contact, then they will have less guys engaged and will have less to hurt the dread. This would be for a significant cost increase, say, 25-30 points. Also, instead of a dccw, they could be equipted with a buzzsaw, which would give them plus 1d3 attacks for each buzzsaw on the first round of combat.

Of course, If these all sound super-game breaking to everybody, we could always give them more attacks or something. And if you have anything else to add, feel free! Deff dreads need more love!

DakkaDakka wrote:

Actually, it would get around 7 or 8? Any model in base to base contact, equals the number of attacks.

Thank you, revackey. Also, I'll probably mess with buzzsaws too. 4 buzzsaws would get you around 20 attacks on average.. it is, of course, at str5/6 and only for the first round, but perhaps I should make it so, for each arm, you roll a die. On a 4+, it gets 2 extra attacks and on a 3 and below, just one extra?

Sounds like a cool idea, I don't play Orks, but with such a nice model it is a shame they aren't played.

give it the scrap pile rule the mega dread gets (5++) and lower its cost by 10 points

but im mad

Che-Vito wrote:So if a Dread charges a unit of 30 Termagaunts, it gets 30 attacks?
Yeah, you can't put a point value on that.

No, it's a free upgrade if the BA codex is any thing to go by. Ask my poor Boyz, I'll never let that happen again.

DakkaDakka wrote:

Deleted

Maybe something like a 'targetin sistim' that increases the Dredd's BS to 3? Allow them to take a single Big Gun instead of 2 weapons? Twin-linked Skorchas?

Or, perhaps something for when it Rams. Dredd's can ram, and maybe allow them their CC attacks at the same time?

Nurglitch wrote:The Deff Dred is already better than a squadron of Kans.

Im curious to know why you think this, as my experiance differs greatly.
I'd assume a slightly diferent meta-game in your area?

I mostly play for the fluff of it, so I would like more upgrades put in the ork dex to give me a wider varity of deff dreads.

Alot of ork units need more options, namely the boyz.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Anvildude wrote:Maybe something like a 'targetin sistim' that increases the Dredd's BS to 3? Allow them to take a single Big Gun instead of 2 weapons?

BS 3 would turn the deff dread into a table edge lurker and thats just not orky, leave that stuff to the grots.

I would like the big gun option.

Deleted

Give them the Waaagh! special rule.

Waaagh!! would be aboslutely Lovely. Actually, (as one of the first two Ork players, and the first Ork Mek player) at my first gaming group, I used to play it that way, since they're, you know, Walkers, Infantry, Orks, and all the Orkish Infantry pretty much has Waaagh!!. I've learned better since then, and though I miss it, I think learning about all the extra attacks I get makes it worth while.


Actually, though, the Grabbin' Klaw would be dead useful. Acts as a basic Grabbin' Klaw against vehicles, and maybe give it a Grot Catcher-like use against ICs.

I love the dreads, and always have (even the old trashcan on legs RT ones )

What i notice with the Deffdredd is that it's woefully short on wierd options.

The grav-grapnel on the BA dredd should have been an ork thing.

Grabbin klaw on a dredd would be awesome, ditto wrecking ball and Red Paint Job.

Rokkit Boostas- allow a 2d6 extra range move, and move as a skimmer, but on a roll of (something) or less takes a pen hit on landing (basically big stormboy)

I know how you feel having a crappy dread, I'm chaos. Maybe just make it cheaper, I always imagine Ork stuff as being crappy and/or ramshackle.

I'd say give it a 6++ just for the lulz. Maybe YOU should have crazed. Every turn roll a D6. On a one pivot towards the nearest unit and fire everything twice. On a 6 you get Rage and Fleet of Hydraulically Operated Construct. Give it blast weapons to account for crap BS skill. I don't know the WS so if I'm wrong correct me, but put it up to 3.

WS is 4 i think. Kanz are 2.

BS is lousy, but that's why everyone just gives them skorchas and ccw

The Deff Dredd doesn't need fixing. It does what it does fine, which is scare the pants off of your opponent for one brief moment when they they realised that they forgot to shoot it down, and it's just started chewing on one of his units.

If you want to use Deff Dredds, run them how I run them:

Killa Kans (3) x2 -> 3 Rokkits - 300 points (total)
Deff Dredd (2) -> 2 extra DCCWs - 200 points (total)

3 heavy slots and a troops slot (you have to take a big mek) for a nasty as hell "mob". Use the KFF on your mek to shield the kans, who in turn shield the Dredds. Once close enough, the Dredds jump forward and kill everyhting they touch.

S_P

I'm liking the ideas for grabbin' claw and wreakin' balls, fun and orky! I forgot about giving them Waaagh!, deffinantly a must. And, after running the math a bit, I think that buzzsaw upgrade is fine, and might even need a little buff, perhaps.

The Deff Dread has its uses but it's main draw back is the cost of Killa Kans.

I regularly run 9 kans and a Deff Dread in my 1500-2500 pt lists and let me tell you the Deff Dread doesn't need a whole lot of help. A few reasonable improvements such as a bump in "I" or allowing 2 per FoC would make all the difference in the world. @ 105pts they are still cheap and will own anything other than a CC Dread ote. Oh and the fact that the FAQ removed an Attack is just silly... Its Base 3, with 2DCCW for +1, with an additional 1 per DCCW... Not this "You only get an extra attack with the 3rd and 4th DCCW.

Tank Thrasher: Deff Dread gets Str 9 + 2d6 armor penetration for combat against vehicles.

Telly Porta: The Deff Dread has the Deep Strike Special Rule

Combat Master: Deff Dreads are devistating in close combat against Infantry. Any Infantry or Jump unit that is in close combat with the Deff Dread. The Deff Dread Gains an Additional attack for every model in base to base contact with the Deff Dread.

Exhause Cloud: Like Most of Ork Machines they exhume a large amount of smoke.smog and toxic gas - thus it gains a 4+ cover save

So for Example: The deff Dread has four combat arms and has 4 attacks. It gains +1 for charge and has five models in base to base contact. Thus it now has 10 attacks.

WS: 5
BS: 2
S: 6/10
Armor Value: 13/12/12
I: 4


Kan Guard: This is an extra option where a Deff Dread may be accompanied by Two Killa Kans.
A: 4

Mm. don't know about the 12 rear armour. That'd be awesome, but maybe something more like 11 rear. I'd say the back of a DeffDredd would be as armoured as the front of a Kan, right?

What about allowing for a Shield to be taken instead of a DCCW? Gives a 5+ Invuln save. Would be cheaper than the Exhaust but more expensive than extra armour.

And I'm assuming those are all buy-able options?

That could work better.

Some of them special rules but things like giving it an extra save, like the Invun would be a item you would have to buy that was extra. Like something worth at least 10-15 points.

I've actually though that all Dredds should get MC style AP against tanks. Not other Walkers, just tanks.

Vasarto wrote:Tank Thrasher: Deff Dread gets Str 9 + 2d6 armor penetration for combat against vehicles.

Telly Porta: The Deff Dread has the Deep Strike Special Rule

Combat Master: Deff Dreads are devistating in close combat against Infantry. Any Infantry or Jump unit that is in close combat with the Deff Dread. The Deff Dread Gains an Additional attack for every model in base to base contact with the Deff Dread.

Exhause Cloud: Like Most of Ork Machines they exhume a large amount of smoke.smog and toxic gas - thus it gains a 4+ cover save

So for Example: The deff Dread has four combat arms and has 4 attacks. It gains +1 for charge and has five models in base to base contact. Thus it now has 10 attacks.

WS: 5
BS: 2
S: 6/10
Armor Value: 13/12/12
I: 4


Kan Guard: This is an extra option where a Deff Dread may be accompanied by Two Killa Kans.
A: 4

This. This makes the dread a MUCH more attractive option. I would definantly take it with this kinda thing.

Except that it has more WS than a SM dread, not that I'm saying the Deff Dread shouldn't be superior, but unless an expert pilot(?) got behind the Deff Dread, I doubt that it would be on par with the level of CC skill of a hundreds of years old Venerable Dreadnought.

It's not skill, it's unpredictability. Maybe a 4(5) WS? 5 to attack, but 4 to defend? Represents the pilot flailing around with all four arms as he attacks.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/313064.page

An idea I had recently. Might be of interest to yer.

Here is the Fixed Edition of what I think Deff Dread should be like based off your input.

Tank Thrasher: Deff Dread gets Str 8 + 2d6 armor penetration for combat against vehicles.

Telly Porta: The Deff Dread has the Deep Strike Special Rule

Master of Combat - If a Deff Dread takes all its weapon options as Close Combat Weapons, If gains this ability. When in Close Combat it will gain an additional attack for each opposing model in base to base contact with the deff dread.

WS: 4
BS: 2
S: 6/10
Armor Value: 13/12/11
I: 4
A: 4

Kan Guard: This is an extra option where a Deff Dread may be accompanied by Two Killa Kans. Each Kan Costs the same as its normal option
Mega Armor -10 Points - Super Heavy Plating that slows the Deff Dread a bit but confers a +5 Invulnerable save. -1 to movement
Red Paint Job - 5 points
Decoy Launcha -The Orks launch a large barrel to intercept the shots being fired at it. Use once per game - When an opponent declares a shooting at the deff dread you may activate this ability. All rolls to hit automatically miss the shots fired at the deff dread is counted as striking the barrel. This will only work once per game and on the unit or vehicle shooting at the deff dread.