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Are there many Gue'vesa in the tau? Because untill late I never even heard of them.
Would it have benifits for a guardsman to join the tau? Would they be treated as equals by the tau??

They're probably in small numbers, it basically takes a whole human world defecting to the Tau Empire then remaining under its control after the inevitable Imperial counterattack. That doesn't happen very often, I believe the Tau withdrew from most of the human worlds after the Damocles Crusade.

Their treatment seems to differ from what I've read. On one hand they're treated as equals as they have embraced the greater good, on the other the Tau are reluctant to send them into combat much as they consider them unreliable.

The Damocles crusade forced the Tau to retreat a few worlds back yes, but when the crusade eventually faltered and pulled back, the Tau got every world back and then a whole bunch more in a spike of conquest. Think that may be the 3rd sphere expansion.

The Gue'vasa are usually treated well, when compared with how the other races treat conquered planets. But they aren't treated as well as real Tau are. Gue'vasa get Tau level armor and weapons, and are put up like a meatshield in battle. I seem to recall something about chemical sterilisation, too.

n3koj1n wrote: I seem to recall something about chemical sterilisation, too.

Not this crap again. That was in a video game and it wasn't even fact, an Imperial observer noted a lack of births on a world where the men and women were kept separately.

*mumble mumble mumble*

Read the codex and Imperial Armour III, the human worlds were actually treated quite well by the Tau...especially since there was no mandatory enlistment quotas etc...and were governed by humans. Kind of a light touch compared to the "burn the heretic" that the IoM throws around alien worlds or the munch munch munch of the Tyranids...

agnosto wrote:

n3koj1n wrote: I seem to recall something about chemical sterilisation, too.

Not this crap again. That was in a video game and it wasn't even fact, an Imperial observer noted a lack of births on a world where the men and women were kept separately.

Supposedly it's been in some of the FFG roleplaying stuff--which is canon, and supported+reviewed by GW.

So if it is in there--it's canon! YAY FOR GRIMDARK TAU!

Read the codex and Imperial Armour III, the human worlds were actually treated quite well by the Tau...especially since there was no mandatory enlistment quotas etc...and were governed by humans. Kind of a light touch compared to the "burn the heretic" that the IoM throws around alien worlds or the munch munch munch of the Tyranids...

They're not really "governed" by humans. All the real defenses that humans could have for self-governance are removed, and only awarded by the Tau to "loyal" subjects.

There's also mention of "forced work camps" in IA3, which is where most of the captured/injured Elysians ended up staying in until their deaths.

Human planets often defect to the Tau Empire to enjoy the free trade and scientific exchange that is standard there. Still, Tau have learned not to reveal all their military secrets to humans as humans have weak minds and can easily be corrupted and turn upon you.

jelisi wrote:Are there many Gue'vesa in the tau?

No.

jelisi wrote:Because untill late I never even heard of them.

Gue'vesa are a 1st Tau codex only fluff. Were dropped as concept later. Try to find them in codex Tau empire....

jelisi wrote:Would it have benefits for a guardsman to join the tau?

He'd be better off dead....

jelisi wrote:Would they be treated as equals by the tau??

Tau deem themselves first among equals but also distrust almost every single non-Tau and keep their culture free of any non-Tau influence.
Vespids may be accepted, Kroot barely tolerated. Humans surely treated as meatshields, sometimes even just food for the Kroot.

Kanluwen wrote:Supposedly it's been in some of the FFG roleplaying stuff--which is canon, and supported+reviewed by GW.

So if it is in there--it's canon! YAY FOR GRIMDARK TAU!

Not that it would be a terrible thing since everything else has to be grimdark but any quotes? I've got the main Dark Heresy rulebook and they're mentioned like one time in there and just that they're heretical because they don't observe proper obeisance to the machine spirit...

agnosto wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Supposedly it's been in some of the FFG roleplaying stuff--which is canon, and supported+reviewed by GW.

So if it is in there--it's canon! YAY FOR GRIMDARK TAU!

Not that it would be a terrible thing since everything else has to be grimdark but any quotes? I've got the main Dark Heresy rulebook and they're mentioned like one time in there and just that they're heretical because they don't observe proper obeisance to the machine spirit...

If I remember right, it's supposedly in Rogue Trader.

Notice: I'm saying "supposedly" because I only own Deathwatch and Rites of Battle myself.
I do find this quote from Maskin Quiore, Gue'la Water Caste Liaison funny though.
"What need you understand but the Greater Good? What more than the Greater Good can hold any concern for you? Ask not where your husband went. Rather, rejoice that his absence benefits us all!"

OOH! Did find a good quote under that too.

There's a place that human malcontents call the "Lacuna" where in the Tau are rumored to conduct psychological experiments on gue'la prisoners. People who disagree with the Greater Good supposedly 'vanish' into that area, never to be seen again.(page 352 of Deathwatch)

Hmm interesting. There's so little fluff on the Tau that anything that fleshes them out is appreciated.

People also like to see a dark side to anything good...
Tau are what humanity could have been and even then they have a dark secret.

Please forgive me if this has already been covered.

The Tau are tech savvy. Is that just hardware or does their expertise extend into wet-ware, to bio-tech and gene-tech? If not then please disregard the following and I will delete this response.

Could the Tau, being ambitious, not stupid and having better tech than the IoM undertake a project to steal and at least partially reverse engineer Adeptus Astartes geneseed and related technologies (Power Armor, Termmie Armor, Dreadnaughts, MUIs, etc.) from the IoM? For use on Gue'vesa volunteers of course. Commie Mah-Rheens?

That reminds me: Gue'vasa mostly don't use Tau weapons. Only the really "trusted" members get to use them. Everyone else gets Tau productions of Imperial weapons or captured Imperial weapons reissued.

As for "bio/gene-tech", they really aren't going to give Gue'vasa who have turned traitor against the Imperium the potential to overthrow the Tau administrators.

Kanluwen wrote:As for "bio/gene-tech", they really aren't going to give Gue'vasa who have turned traitor against the Imperium the potential to overthrow the Tau administrators.

Of course. The Gue'vesa volunteers would have to be young like (all?) Astartes Aspirants, raised and possibly born within the Collective.

This hypothetical project would take at least decades, if not a century or two to complete. Every organ, geneseed, piece of equipment captured for study having an extremely high cost, both in lives and resources. If the Chaos Legions can create more (and loyal to them) Astartes than I can see the Tau at least looking into weather or not they could do something similar.

I can't see it happening, simply because the various requirements for successfully creating an Astartes just aren't going to end up with a 'good' way to reverse engineer them.

If there's anything I hate more than the lapdogs of the false emperor, it's the lapdogs of the Tau "empire".

Kanluwen wrote:I can't see it happening, simply because the various requirements for successfully creating an Astartes just aren't going to end up with a 'good' way to reverse engineer them.

Okay then. The Tau boffins already took a very close look at a captured (dead?) SM, threw up their hands and said: "F this shiat" and went back to stamping out more killy railguns. Took Big-E a while to make'em anyway, and depending on who you believe he had a bit of help.

The Tau cannot reverse engineer Space Marines.

They were created by a mind and to my knowledge strands of gene-seed that is forever lost save for Space Marine Chapters.

Honestly, the most likely course of action is that the Tau will replicate Webway technology long before they try to make Space Marines. My guess is next codex on them and Eldar will have the two races making contact of some sort... and hopefully not like the royal pantsing that was the dark eldar. You wanna talk sad whoopins... they lost an entire planet's population to a trick.

Knowing Tau luck, they will most likely colonize a Maiden World and rage the Eldar...

BeefCakeSoup wrote:The Tau cannot reverse engineer Space Marines.

They were created by a mind and to my knowledge strands of gene-seed that is forever lost save for Space Marine Chapters.

Fair enough. How about a tired, desperate, under-equipped, un-supplied, Excommunicatus Chapter throwing their lot in with the galactic south-east rather than the north-west?

That's not gonna happen, they'd have to be subservient.

If a Chapter goes renegade or is Excommunicated, they want to be in charge.

Kanluwen wrote:That's not gonna happen, they'd have to be subservient.

If a Chapter goes renegade or is Excommunicated, they want to be in charge.

I really don't think it's as cut and dry as this. Especially since not every faction that works with the Tau Empire is actually confirmed as being apart of the Tau Empire (Demiurg).

I think that the closest a a chapter would get to joining the Tau Empire would be a renegade chapter that would rely on the Tau for survival. Almost like a you scratch my back I scratch yours deal, the marines would fight alongside the Tau in exchange for either living in Tau space (a relativly safe area) and benefiting from Tau aid. Think of them as mercenary knights who are allowed to stay as long as they earn their keep by fighting for the Tau. It's mutually beneficial.

Now the Tau will often improve on aspects of the technology of those races who are apart of their empire (this is about gue'vesa) without giving them everything. For instance the Tau provided charged rounds to Kroot increasing the power of their rifles, to the Necissar they improved the capabilities of their ships etc.

So when it comes to gue'vesa depending on their purpose and how loyal they've proven to be they may have better production capabilities or access to more advanced technology. For instance a Gue'vesa whose family has been a loyal part of the Tau Empire for generations may be more trusted then a Gue'vesa whose world was recently subsumed into the Empire. Something else of note with the Gue'vesa that they are still allowed to worship the Emperor as long as their loyalties lie to the Greater Good.

^ So, the Squishy Hearts Chapter is despondent after bringing the planet of the extra big eyed, puppies and kittens that always speak in verse into compliance. Goes renegade falling straight into the hands of an extra powerful, extra big group of Ethereals. They now hide deep in Tau space, knitting and talking shop with Tau boffins.

While I'm guessing that the Tau would have the tech to reverse-engineer various Space Marine technologies and biological enhancements, their mindset would not even consider this. The Tau place high priority on distanced combat (hand-to-hand is the bloody, brutal affair of animals and beasts, they are above it) and high mobility (which is why fire warrior teams don't have heavy weapons). While the improved eyesight of a marine would be a boon to their species, I'm guessing they'd prefer something that came from Tau minds, not humanity. The other benefits of the gene seed, power armor, terminator armor (they have 2+ battlesuit armor, it's just in the "field testing" stage) would not fit into this mantra.

Also, the Tau have supposedly developed much more advanced tech than what's on the battlefield; it's just that their testing standards are much more rigorous than human ones. It's almost as if they care about some of their soldiers...

^ Upon reflection I find myself agreeing. If the Tau wanted try reverse engineering some wet-ware to improve their melee prowess the Orkoids would most likely be a more interesting, rewarding, initially easier and ultimately riskier place to start.

agnosto wrote:

n3koj1n wrote: I seem to recall something about chemical sterilisation, too.

Not this crap again. That was in a video game and it wasn't even fact, an Imperial observer noted a lack of births on a world where the men and women were kept separately.

*mumble mumble mumble*

Read the codex and Imperial Armour III, the human worlds were actually treated quite well by the Tau...especially since there was no mandatory enlistment quotas etc...and were governed by humans. Kind of a light touch compared to the "burn the heretic" that the IoM throws around alien worlds or the munch munch munch of the Tyranids...

A real truth coming from the Tau fan. In reality, Tau are no batter than Nazis, they see Humans as barbarians and technologically inferior race. And why is so strang for you to see? As long they share a world with Humans there is always a chance to be some kind of rebellion or Imperial counterattack. So the simplest solution is to wipe them all out, but it's much "cleaner" to affect the birth rates than to kill every Human on the planet. And don't tell me about the "grater good", I saw how much benefits Imperial Guardsman from Taros have from it...

UselessSage wrote:
Could the Tau, being ambitious, not stupid and having better tech than the IoM undertake a project to steal and at least partially reverse engineer Adeptus Astartes geneseed and related technologies (Power Armor, Termmie Armor, Dreadnaughts, MUIs, etc.) from the IoM? For use on Gue'vesa volunteers of course. Commie Mah-Rheens?

For the record, the Tau do not have better technology than the Imperium. They can geneally have a better spread of technology, but the best of the Imperium's technology easily towers above the best of the Tau's. Personally, I doubt they'd be capable of replicating Astartes geneseed since it took the Emperor to actually create it (and presumably pass on the knowledge - or maybe not, if the Imperium is just using the stocks they have and get from new Astartes, rather than actually creating more).

BeefCakeSoup wrote:Honestly, the most likely course of action is that the Tau will replicate Webway technology long before they try to make Space Marines.

I don't think the Tau could match the technology of the Old Ones - it's pyshically based, after all.


As for the Gue'vesa, I doubt they'd get many actual benefits (other than being allowed to live, that is). I'd also assume they'd be treated as at best second-class citizens.

I believe thats what the tau are basically supposed to be, everything is for the greater good. Killing unpure races like humans (I don't mean unpure, but I can't think of a better word). Death camps, ect. They aren't really that friendly.

The imperium is even worse, they kill all the xenos and heretics they see!

Overall, the most advanced tech of the imperium died with the emperor when he was betrayed by his warmaster. While some may have been saved the knowledge of how to use it is hindered by a religion that shuns advancing sciences beyond what is acceptable by a "machine spirit"....

In a raw comparison I'd give Tau and edge in Technology.

Rail tech
Battlesuits
Ion Tech
Pulse Tech
A.I.
Shield Generator Tech
Anti-Grav Technology on mass scale



Overall, I'd agree the imperium has some highly stupid awesome rediscovered tech out there, but overall I'd say the best tech is either Tau or Eldar.

Though I personally believe one of the most innovative pieces of tech ever made is the lasgun. It may even be the most effective concept humanity has ever created and perhaps the most effective ever if you really think about it.