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Why is so hard for Forge Worlds to share their STC technologies? They shoul be all work together toward grater good of Mankind.
It would be much simpler and more practical to share, it would make the disasters like Vanquisher from ever happening again...

And about that tank... I can't believe that AM can't just make a longer barrel, that they need STC to do that...

Because knowledge is power. They don't want to share their power.

I don't think it's just a longer barrel...
That would be stupid.

Forge Worlds would share their STCs, and all of them send copies to Mars, but the problem is that STCs are fragile.

it takes great care to copy the blueprints(which isn't always possable)


it's easier for the Forge World to just make more of what is on the template.

The Imperium is a great big place filled with huge institutions, labyrinthine bureacracy and balkanized due to their sheer size. Everyone has become suspicious of each other and the relics of the past are hoarded jealously. Especially technology.

Brother Coa wrote:Why is so hard for Forge Worlds to share their STC technologies? They shoul be all work together toward grater good of Mankind.
It would be much simpler and more practical to share, it would make the disasters like Vanquisher from ever happening again...

Distances involved, scheming among the rulers of each Forge World. If for instance a version of the Leman Russ is produced on only 1 forgeworld, that forgeworld will grow in power, prestige, and prosperity. You saw the case with Gryphonne IV, which was probably one of the most well-known Forgeworlds after Mars and is repeatedly mentioned throughout fluff. Gryphonne IV was also where many of the Leman Russ variants came from.

The world was doing great until the Tyranids ate it up anyway.

And about that tank... I can't believe that AM can't just make a longer barrel, that they need STC to do that...

Trying to do it without instruction from a holy STC would be an insult to the Machine God. That's the kind of heresy the Dark Mechanicus do.

purplefood wrote:I don't think it's just a longer barrel...
That would be stupid.

I read IA 1 and sadly it is. Vanquisher has Leman Russ chassis, turret and all other - he only had longer barrel. That gives him ability to fire more specialized ammunition and longer range.
I know, it sound stupid but it is true... And to think that they can build spaceships and they cannot build a longer gun for a tank...

They clearly can build a longer gun for a tank...

The Techpriests are mainly priests and not scientists. One does not simply write a new chapter in his holy book of choice, so no, unless they find some way to make it appear legit ( oh, look what i just found in the drawer...a totaly original stc printout...yes, realy...*coughs*...don't mind the made in china print on it... ) they cannot simply
construct a longer barrel

NO! That is heresy.

purplefood wrote:They clearly can build a longer gun for a tank...

They could just extend the barrel, but the Mechanicus is quite far its own ass. I remember in Storm of Iron when one of their tech-priests talks of having a ground-to-space torpedo launched from a silo he has to "convince the machine spirit" to launch then "put a curse on the target to goad the torpedo towards it". I was just lol, wtf man. It's called prepping to launch and setting target coordinates.

To make any modifications to designs found in STC's without guidance from the Omnissiah in the form of another STC is essentially playing God and is tantamount to heresy. Your mindset would quickly get you broken down into leman russ fuel.

I don't thyink you get it...
The fact that a tank with a longer barrel (the Vanquisher) exists means they can in fact build a tank with a longer barrel. They posses the means to build it they simply don't want to due to their ridiculous belief system which to its credit has protected technology despite hastening the loss of actual understanding.

Also depends on who's fluff you're reading. In some works, it is obvious that the belief in Machine-Spirits and the like is simply superstitious nonsense... in others, the Machine-Spirits are real, and really *do* need to be placated, appeased, cajoled, or otherwise convinced to function, perhaps in conjunction with other Machine-Spirits (in targeters, guidance systems, and the like).

Psienesis wrote:Also depends on who's fluff you're reading. In some works, it is obvious that the belief in Machine-Spirits and the like is simply superstitious nonsense... in others, the Machine-Spirits are real, and really *do* need to be placated, appeased, cajoled, or otherwise convinced to function, perhaps in conjunction with other Machine-Spirits (in targeters, guidance systems, and the like).

These kinds of fluff changes between books aren't mutually exclusive of each other. It's quite possible for the character talking about the machine spirit in each book believes what they're saying about it. To a random Guardsmen without much knowledge of machines, he's going to regard it as supersticious nonsense. To that Enginseer who knows it's a kind of AI slaved to a human brain, is going to know otherwise. It's a waste of time expanding on why that Guardsman thinks it's nonsense, because if they went off on tangents like that every time something came up about 40k fluff, Black Library novels basically be Tom Clancy novels in spaaaaaaace.

purplefood wrote:They posses the means to build it they simply don't want to due to their ridiculous belief system which to its credit has protected technology despite hastening the loss of actual understanding.

Then what about upgrades? Over the last 10.000 years they upgraded almost everything the Imperium have - even built new things. What STC design covers that?

Brother Coa wrote:

purplefood wrote:They posses the means to build it they simply don't want to due to their ridiculous belief system which to its credit has protected technology despite hastening the loss of actual understanding.

Then what about upgrades? Over the last 10.000 years they upgraded almost everything the Imperium have - even built new things. What STC design covers that?

The Imperium does upgrade technology, and occasionally innovates too, yes. But 'innovations' are largely based on existing STC systems. Like, the Land Raider Crusader was an innovation born of need. It's still based on an existing STC, the Land Raider. Same with the Vindicator, made to break a seige, now in full production, based on the Rhino STC.

Genuinely new technologies are still extremely rare, and that's where the Imperium 'stagnates'. They're quite adept at adapting existing technology and upgrading existing technology. Inventing new technology is restricted by religious dogma.

So it's not a heresy to upgrade existing technology?

It depends,

the Mechanicus had to analyze for a lot of time all the modifications of the standard STCs blueprints. The LR Crusader was accepted only after much time and ONLY when the Chapters requested the blueprint since it was so efficient.

Basically if you invent something you are a Heretic, if you upgrade something you MIGHT not be, and it depends on your political weight too.

So essentially the best way to create something new is:
Base it off an existing design
Give it to an Imperial fighting organisation e.g. SM, SoB or IG.
Have them use it, if it is good then they will spread it to other partse.g. other SoB orders or other Sm chapter.
The other people will use it and like it and then they will all ask for it to become mass produced (or as mass produced as you can get)

basically,



of course, the Ad Mech is innovating and coming up with new things. its just at a snails pace.

Grey Templar wrote:basically,



of course, the Ad Mech is innovating and coming up with new things. its just at a snails pace.

At a VERY small pace.

Here is how the Macharius heavy tank was designed and put into mass production:

1°/ Magos Nalax from the Lucius FW discovers partial blueprints for a pre-HH heavy tank.

2°/ Over the loonnng course of his life, Nalax gradually gathers enough information and technical data to design an entire heavy tank.

3°/ His work is then sent to Mars, for approval by the Fabricator General. It took 200 years for big papa AdMech to finally decide that this new tank design was not dangerous for the IoM or had any heretical content.
By then, Nalax was dead.

4°/ The Fabricator General grants a single FW the right to produce Macharius heavy tanks: Lucius. Unfortunately, Lucius does not start production of the Macharius because they prefer to produce Baneblades.

5°/ It took another couple of centuries for Lucius to realize that the demand for baneblades far outstripped their production, and that the Macharius could fill in the gap between demand and supply.

6°/ In 852.M41, production of the Macharius heavy tank finally starts, several centuries after the death of its designer.

yup, although it isn't always that long. were it not for the FW wanting to produce Baneblades more it would have been produced far sooner.



the LRC and LRR were approved fairly quickly(of course, they were being produced by Astartes themselves in limited numbers prior to approval)

Maybe, and this is just a theory... they keep them to make themselves more valuable. Think about it; in the grim darkness of the future with only war you want to be protected. If you have irreplaceable information on your planet, the Imperium will sure as hell defend you and make sure you come out on the other side with funding and man-power to recover.

Armagedon lost almost 100% of it's manufacturing capability in the 3rd war, when it can give nothing it receives nothing. The same could happen to any planet.

Frankly I believe all the tech stasis is more about GW wanting to make the Imperium be more DOOMED than in reality it should be and thus the Imperium not using tech to full advantage. For example, take all of the Dawn of war 2 games. The Aurelian subsector seems to have a lot of STC tech like Astronomic array, Teleportarium, Automated foundries and Communication arrays and has had them for centuries but they aren't recovered or studied so they can benefit the Imperium. They are just left their to rot until they get destroyed which makes the Imperium even more degraded in tech.

If the Imperium would cut through all of its Mechanicus red tape BS then they could probably get things done.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:Frankly I believe all the tech stasis is more about GW wanting to make the Imperium be more DOOMED than in reality it should be and thus the Imperium not using tech to full advantage. For example, take all of the Dawn of war 2 games. The Aurelian subsector seems to have a lot of STC tech like Astronomic array, Teleportarium, Automated foundries and Communication arrays and has had them for centuries but they aren't recovered or studied so they can benefit the Imperium. They are just left their to rot until they get destroyed which makes the Imperium even more degraded in tech.

just because the Technology is there doesn't mean its replicable.


those Teliportariums and foundries arn't able to be replicated. they can still function.

the primary reason is that they are so delicate that any attempt at reverse engineering them would likely destroy the original. they don't want to risk the Reverse Engineering process to fail and then they broke the thing for nothing.

KOS wrote:It depends,

the Mechanicus had to analyze for a lot of time all the modifications of the standard STCs blueprints. The LR Crusader was accepted only after much time and ONLY when the Chapters requested the blueprint since it was so efficient.

Basically if you invent something you are a Heretic, if you upgrade something you MIGHT not be, and it depends on your political weight too.

This is exactly it.

If you read the Marine codex, under the description of the Razorback, it indicates that the design is only several thousand years old and still the object of much deliberation.

Technological Archaeology is the prefered method for upgrades and new designs.

I see no reason for Mars not to have every singel STC that the other forgeworlds have, they have their own coms net (astropath servtors all linked to each other). Mars is probably the only place where most of the reclamed tech exsits.

They have come up with new designs for the navy, they have made new-ish escorts, curisers and battles ships.

They also will revers-engineer stuff, they just take maybe a hundred years to document were a screw is before they remove it. So do make new stuff and most of the time it takes a age and a day for it to be recomended for mass production.

Granted you get the old Magos that are stuck in their ways/programming to the younger Ad-Mech that come up with some thing new and then BS how it was undiscovered STC.

It probably only takes them a week or so to do the work...
I bet they spend the rest of the time playing noughts and crosses or poker.

Or playing Mine Sweeper