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This will be the first in a series of polls dedicated to getting me into Warhammer Fantasy.

I used to play Warhammer Fantasy in 5th edition. Since that time, I have only really been playing 40k. I have been reading the 8th edition WHFB rule book whenever I get the chance, however, and have decided that it seems like it would be a worthwhile alternative (as I abhorred Warmachine/Hordes - though I will paint their models for commission work ).

I currently play Tyranids as my 40k army, and as some of you may be aware, they are not the most competitive army on paper. They require finesse and great generalship to wade through the plethora of 3+ armies that dominate the tournament scene. I am looking for the following from my Fantasy army:

-An army that is, perhaps, a little more forgiving, but will also reward smart play.
-An army that is mostly plastic, and has a large percentage of its range of miniatures on the shelves. ie: I thought about Tomb Kings (LOVE the look of the Sepulcher Stalkers/Necropolis Knights) because I love the Ancient Fertile Crescent feel, but with only 3 new releases, and 3/4 of the book being filled with pictures of their crappy old miniatures, I think I'll wait before picking them up.
-An army that is perhaps a little less cumbersome to assemble, paint, and transport than Tyranids. I don't know if any WHFB army is as difficult to deal with, but we will keep this in mind.

The armies I've taken interest in are Beastmen, Lizardmen (as a professional painter, I have some ideas up my sleeve for the scaly guys), Warriors of Chaos (as I played them in 5th), and maybe Skaven. The latter, of course, comes close to the Tyranids in terms of sheer number of models, but fortunately for them, WHFB miniatures seem to fit into foam rectangles much easier than the all-skirmishing, pointy, dynamic aliens of the 40k universe. I would also consider Tomb Kings if someone has great powers of persuasion.

I don't need the cheesiest out-of-the-box army, just something that can hold it's own while also rewarding my good play. While the decision will ultimately be mine, I would like the feedback of the community who regularly immerses themselves in the Old World. Just so you know, I am leaning towards Lizardmen or Beastmen, but again, all input is appreciated.

Once I have made a decision, I will start a thread for part 2: What to Buy?

Thanks!



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No input, advice, or reasons?

Well you need to ask yourself first what do you have more interest in - monstrous armies, demons, artillery, armies with tons of fodder, more specialized units?

When it comes to artillery and warmachines, the Skaven are the way to go for sure. For demons and monstrous creatures, Chaos or beastmen are a good choice(I myself prefer Warriors of Chaos just because of looks) - if you want your entire army to be totally alien and different, then the Lizardmen are good. For a nearly full cavalry army, Tomb kings are where its at. I'm pretty sure you can field the entire army with chariots or the like. Every hobby store has army books for you to peruse without needing to buy. I suggest picking one up going through it.

When it comes to what to buy, get an army list together first. Grab an army book and just run from there - do your research on the strengths and weaknesses and start adapting. To start off I got a box set that came with a large supply of troops. I typically always do that whenever starting a new army - it gives you all the basics. I bought my Bretonnian boxed set when it came with 3 pegasus knights rather then just the one now

Just because of my personal interests, I'd go with Warriors of Chaos. If I wanted skellies or the like, I'd go vampire counts just because I prefer Dracula vs The Mummy.

Thanks. As far as perusing the army books, I do that all the time. I wouldn't have narrowed my selection down to these armies if I hadn't been doing that. But there are aspects to each army that I enjoy, hence the reason I'm here asking questions. It's more like I'm asking friends to encourage me based on something they may be interested in, or maybe haven't tried yet, etc.

By the way, asking me if I like monsters, or warmachines, or demons, or knights, and so on, doesn't help much, because I like bits and pieces of all of them. I am open-minded, but not open-budgeted at the moment. So just one army for now.

Once the decision is made, I can then move on to army lists, starter purchases, and eventually paint scheme.

Keep the good ideas coming!

EDIT: Oh yeah, I should also ask if Lizardmen are competitive in the 8th edition environment. I know WoC and Skaven are, and I'm pretty sure Beastmen can be, while Tomb Kings will need some time to bloom before we know enough about them.

So uh....are Lizardmen competitive in the current environment?

Lizards are competitive and beastmen are not very competitive but there are those players out there who they work really well for, they are kindof like Wood elves in the idea that they take a lot of finess to win with, but if you good you can will allot.

That's kind of sad. I was sort of hoping they would be like Chaos Warriors Lite. I suppose they don't really have armor, but MAN their Core units have sweet models!

Does anyone else feel as though Marauders look sort of awkward next to the newer WoC minis?

Again, this is all playing a part in my decision making. Even the aesthetics are important to me.

In another discussion recently I likened Beastmen to Tyranids on the basis that their game plan is fairly linear: move forward and smash stuff. The main aim of the game with Beastmen is to mitigate as much ranged damage as possible so that when your blocks collide, you're still a force.

You could even go so far as to say that the Doombull could be likened to the Hive Tyrant just for sheer, raw power... although in fantasy, none of the characters are quite as powerful as their 40k counterparts.

I was interested in starting Beastmen at one point (I still may, who knows) but the biggest thing putting for off was the complete lack of any shooting phase - most importantly, artillery. On the plus side, their magic is fairly amusing, their shamen reguarly turning into big monsters to give your opponent a heart attack.

As for Lizardmen, I firmly believe they're in the top 3 this edition, but as with anything, there are a lot of variables. Whether you're playing with restrictions, high points, low points, etc. The Slann is probably the most efficient general out there, and as if that's not enough, you can make the fat, slimy bastards your BSB, too!

I think that if you have enough models on the table most fantasy armies are fairly forgiving, so I would not factor this into your decision.

Beastmen, Skaven, and TK have shiny new models. However, TK amires still need to field lots of old skeletons. Thus, in this department I think Skaven are the clear winners, but Beastmen are a close second.

The Lizardmen will probably be the most fun to paint.

WOC are by far the easiest army to transport.

Thus I would recommend Beastmen, Skaven, Lizardmen or WOC.

The Beastmen have nice new models. Although they are not a top tier army like Skaven or Lizardmen, they are not as bad as everyone makes them out to be. Hatred can make them quite deadly. I think that they really come into their own at 3000 points, because at that point level ambushing becomes a more viable tactic.

Skaven have great models. You can also build lots of different types of armies. You can go big with hellpits and rat ogres, shooty with jezzails and catapults, or hoardy with slaves. One downside is that lots of people play them because they are a top tier army, and they come in the starter set.

Lizardmen are fun to paint. Slann are great magic users and Saurus are solid infantry.

You used to play WOC, so you probably have an affinity for them. They are very easy to trasnport. However, the marauders look funny.

I thought it would be useful to mention the process of purchasing an army. I know that this is something that you probably wanted to address in a later thread, but it is something that I consider before starting an army. One of the biggest barriers to WFB is acquiring enough of the models you want at a fair price. Most armies require more than 100 infantry. To reduce the cost of acquiring these miniatures, we want to purchase them in battalions. However, we want to make sure that the battalions do not have lots of units that we do not want. I would use every unit from the Beastmen battalion in just about any Beastmen army. The same cannot be said for the Lizardmen battalion which contains Saurus cavalry which I would not use in most armies, and look goofy. The WOC battalion does not have any 'bad' units. However, if you buy several battalions you will end up with too many hounds. This is not a problem for the Beastmen battalion, as you can field tons of Gors, Ungors, and Beastigors. The Skaven from the Island of Blood are all quite useful, but you will need to get rid of the High Elves.

TBH it's not worthwhile. Play 8th before buying a new army... it's basically a game of slamming blocks together until they die and/or die to magic.

spaceelf wrote:I think that if you have enough models on the table most fantasy armies are fairly forgiving, so I would not factor this into your decision.

Beastmen, Skaven, and TK have shiny new models. However, TK amires still need to field lots of old skeletons. Thus, in this department I think Skaven are the clear winners, but Beastmen are a close second.

The Lizardmen will probably be the most fun to paint.

WOC are by far the easiest army to transport.

Thus I would recommend Beastmen, Skaven, Lizardmen or WOC.

The Beastmen have nice new models. Although they are not a top tier army like Skaven or Lizardmen, they are not as bad as everyone makes them out to be. Hatred can make them quite deadly. I think that they really come into their own at 3000 points, because at that point level ambushing becomes a more viable tactic.

Skaven have great models. You can also build lots of different types of armies. You can go big with hellpits and rat ogres, shooty with jezzails and catapults, or hoardy with slaves. One downside is that lots of people play them because they are a top tier army, and they come in the starter set.

Lizardmen are fun to paint. Slann are great magic users and Saurus are solid infantry.

You used to play WOC, so you probably have an affinity for them. They are very easy to trasnport. However, the marauders look funny.

I thought it would be useful to mention the process of purchasing an army. I know that this is something that you probably wanted to address in a later thread, but it is something that I consider before starting an army. One of the biggest barriers to WFB is acquiring enough of the models you want at a fair price. Most armies require more than 100 infantry. To reduce the cost of acquiring these miniatures, we want to purchase them in battalions. However, we want to make sure that the battalions do not have lots of units that we do not want. I would use every unit from the Beastmen battalion in just about any Beastmen army. The same cannot be said for the Lizardmen battalion which contains Saurus cavalry which I would not use in most armies, and look goofy. The WOC battalion does not have any 'bad' units. However, if you buy several battalions you will end up with too many hounds. This is not a problem for the Beastmen battalion, as you can field tons of Gors, Ungors, and Beastigors. The Skaven from the Island of Blood are all quite useful, but you will need to get rid of the High Elves.

This was a very useful post, thank you. I also think the Beastmen battalion seems the most useful.

Phototoxin wrote:TBH it's not worthwhile. Play 8th before buying a new army... it's basically a game of slamming blocks together until they die and/or die to magic.

This was not a useful post. I guess it must be awful to partake in a medieval based strategy game that plays out all hammer-and-anvil like real medieval warfare...Oh wait, that's exactly what I'm looking for.

Taking everything you've posted into account out of all your options I'd say the Lizardmen are the best choice. From a simple aesthetic point of view I'd recommend them because you've already mentioned that you've got some ideas about how to paint them.

As for your other requirement of being decent performers on the tabletop from what I've read they are a very capable force and in the Slaan have one of the best character choices available. Sadly I've never had a chance to play with or against them so I can't really offer anything beyond hearsay.

However the most important point is that they're an army of dinosaurs who wouldn't want that?

Lizardmen do seem to have a lot of metal minis. I also haven't heard from my sources if they have anything new in the pipe. So those are both downers. Still, I do find them attractive, as the Maya/Aztec theme is pretty slick.

I don't think that Lizardmen have more metal minis than most other fantasy armies. The characters are metal, but that is true of most armies. Salamanders are frequently played and chameleon skinks get some table time. However, things like terradons don't see much play in 8th.

If you really hate metal, then consider Skaven and TK which can be fielded without metal figures.

I don't HATE metal, I just play Tyranids who have more metal models than any other 40k army, and most of them just so happen to be the useful units.

ie: Hive Guard, Tyrant Guard, Hive Tyrant (though he will be plastic soon), Zoanthrope, Venomthrope...


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Lizardmen taking a commanding lead. I wonder what's driving that. At least they only have one giant monster/warmachine model (for now). It seems a lot of the newer armies have a crap-ton of them, and I already deal with that with the Tyranids.

brassangel wrote:
Lizardmen taking a commanding lead. I wonder what's driving that. At least they only have one giant monster/warmachine model (for now). It seems a lot of the newer armies have a crap-ton of them, and I already deal with that with the Tyranids.

I forgot to mention another Lizardmen metal model that happens to be a big monster, the Carnisaur.

Lizardmen are getting votes because they have many things going for them. Painting them would be fun, they are a top tier army, they are fewer in number than Skaven which makes them easier to assemble, paint and transport.

I think people are discounting TK because of the old Skeletons, Beastmen because they are not top tier, and Warriors of Chaos because the Marauders look bad.

spaceelf wrote:

brassangel wrote:
Lizardmen taking a commanding lead. I wonder what's driving that. At least they only have one giant monster/warmachine model (for now). It seems a lot of the newer armies have a crap-ton of them, and I already deal with that with the Tyranids.

I forgot to mention another Lizardmen metal model that happens to be a big monster, the Carnisaur.

Lizardmen are getting votes because they have many things going for them. Painting them would be fun, they are a top tier army, they are fewer in number than Skaven which makes them easier to assemble, paint and transport.

I think people are discounting TK because of the old Skeletons, Beastmen because they are not top tier, and Warriors of Chaos because the Marauders look bad.

Marauders do look odd. I suppose their models are pretty old.

While Beastmen may not be considered top-tier, I may be willing to sacrifice that for their super cool models.

I will let this run for a little while longer as my budget has been delayed. ;-)

I am in a similar position to you... have not played in years... I used to play Dark Elves...

I am looking at either Beast Master, Dark Elves or Skaven...

For me the Horde of rats with random warplightning and Plaque stuff just seems fun... what is putting me of is having to paint about 250+ rats for the average 200pt game!!!

Varl Sigmund wrote:I am in a similar position to you... have not played in years... I used to play Dark Elves...

I am looking at either Beast Master, Dark Elves or Skaven...

For me the Horde of rats with random warplightning and Plaque stuff just seems fun... what is putting me of is having to paint about 250+ rats for the average 200pt game!!!

I hear you. I still have 6 boxes of gaunts unassembled.

Airbrush! Or ship them to those Sri Lanka commission painters to get the base coats on.

And somewhat off-topic, what was so bad about WM/H that you "abhorred" it? That's a pretty strong sentiment.

withershadow wrote:Airbrush! Or ship them to those Sri Lanka commission painters to get the base coats on.

And somewhat off-topic, what was so bad about WM/H that you "abhorred" it? That's a pretty strong sentiment.

In case you haven't noticed, I do commissions myself, so I'm fine with the painting thing.

As to WM/H, I don't owe anyone an explanation, and usually the only people who ask are the staunch PP defenders looking for a fight. Hypothetically speaking: I hated the ultra-small scale of the game (yes, I understand the irony of wanting to play an army with fewer models, but it's still not just a group of nine individuals with an elite army), the crappy materials used for the minis, the limited poses, the awful aesthetics of 1/2 the factions, the card system, the fact that when the leader dies the game ends, the elitist mentality of its supporters who claim how much "better" the rules system functions only to find out that it's tactically an elementary game...

That's a few reasons. There was virtually nothing I enjoyed about playing it, learning it, or being with the crowd. I got all excited only to be immensely disappointed. And no, it wasn't just one experience. I kept giving it chances at different stores, with different groups, for the better part of 8 months. I was that open minded to the idea. If anything, it made me sorely miss GW games. Weird, huh?

Anyway, thanks again for the help, guys!

Are you? Are you really? That's a crapton of painting for someone who already paints all the time.

Varl Sigmund wrote:I am in a similar position to you... have not played in years... I used to play Dark Elves...

I am looking at either Beast Master, Dark Elves or Skaven...

For me the Horde of rats with random warplightning and Plaque stuff just seems fun... what is putting me of is having to paint about 250+ rats for the average 200pt game!!!

Dark Elves seem pretty cool, and since you have an affinity for them, it might bring back some good old fashioned home-cooked nostalgia.

withershadow wrote:Are you? Are you really? That's a crapton of painting for someone who already paints all the time.

Yes, yes I am. And yes, yes it is.

Beasts making a comeback. This is so much fun! Sadly, it may be making my decision more difficult because I'm falling for all of these armies.

It's very easy to do sadly, I'm meant to be working on my Empire army atm but since I got the new Tomb King book I'm finding myself very tempted to drop £250-£300 on a 2500pt army.

Nick Ellingworth wrote:It's very easy to do sadly, I'm meant to be working on my Empire army atm but since I got the new Tomb King book I'm finding myself very tempted to drop £250-£300 on a 2500pt army.

GW has the crack and we are desperate junkies.

I will let this run for a few more days.

That said, anybody want me to paint their lagging WHFB army?

Let me flip this around a bit: If you could do it all over again, which army would you choose? Try not to include an army you already play.

Lizzys,

They are really forgiving, mostly plastic, and have a little that they cant do (except artillery)

When i was first considering fantasy Ogres and Lizzies both had my attention.
So if i was starting over the big guys would be the way to go.

Ooooh... I forgot about Ogres. They are getting a shiny new book in a few months too. I will be interested to see how GW converts them to a horde army so that we all have to buy more models. Probably make Noblars the only viable option.

They already are a decent horde army, a block of 18 ogres is terrifying if you've got nothing to counter it.

Right, but buying 3 boxes of Ogres isn't nearly as bad as buying 12 boxes of Clanrats. I should have said "horde" by definition, and not by in-game status.

Ogres arrive around October, so I could always wait...

EDIT: added new option regarding Ogres. Everyone vote again.