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Warhammer has always been plagued by chaos, in fantasy and in 40k. However I am curious of something.....

In reality demons are said to be able to possess people given time and energy, same with ghosts. (If you do not believe in this type of thing I mean no religious debate.)

So in the 40k universe is it the same way? Or is it only through the worship of Chaos god's or through the possession of a demonic artifact or weapon? Obviously the more strong willed the being the harder it will be for them to be possessed if not impossible (like the Emperor commanding the great crusade then suddenly being demonized isn't going to happen.) However would it be different for a regular imperial citizen or Imperial guard? Eldar?

Fluff evidence?

Well you could go threw different novel's and read into possession for me the one that comes to my mind is Fulgrim. He slowly is swayed into the thinking of Slaanesh though it isn't tell he achieves a saber that has a daemon within it. In the end he actually submits to the daemon thus consuming his form turning him into a daemon prince. Back in the day with chaos if you wanted to run a greater daemon you had to possess one of your troops and roll for possession each round for summoning but if summoned loss of a model and gain of a greater daemon so I would say it works the way you think of it.
It's just the big change in 4th edition were they took those rules out, along with all the mixed stuff with chaos and daemons all together which is a big shame. Back when you had the choice of how many pts of daemonic power you could throw into a Lord. It was so colorful back then now its kind of a shell of its former self divided into 2 codex's Chaos Daemons and then Chaos Space Marines. It really dosen't make any sense but with 3rd edition the effects of possession were definitely there and it works the same its just the rules have changed.

-Sincerely Viri

P.S. I miss Combat Drugs on my Lord...

it depends,

a weaker deamon usually can't posess a non-willing host.

a strong deamon can forcibly enter a host though.



most deamonic posessions take place because a psyker wasn't careful.

the psyker loses control of his powers and as a result his soul gets fried. a nearby deamon then takes up residence in the empty shell.


a more powerful deamon can forcibly enter a psyker that didn't guard his soul against the invasion and take control. the posessed person might still be there, but is mearly observing what the deamon does with his body. other times the deamon eats the soul and carries on.



only the most powerful deamons can actually make their own physical form and exit from a warp rift(also depending on the size of the warp rift)

Bloodletters, Plaguebearers, Deamonettes, and Horrors are shards of their respective god and as such can maintain a form as they are the will of their god.

Well I think some daemons can enter normal folk.
I have a few examples.
1,In Storm of Iron,a Guardswoman gets posessed by a daemon,it keeps talking to her and she eventually goes mad and becomes a host.

2,A backstory for a Keeper of Secrets.
She was disguised as an Eldar man,and seduced a young Eldar girl.I think it said she was able to do it because the girl was weak enough to get into the Craftworld through,then assume the form of the young man.The Daemon then posessed an Avatar of Khaine afterwards.

So I guess any one can be a host if a Daemon wants to go to the bother to wear you down. But people like Psykers are open targets.

GT has the right of it.
the majority of possession is through untrained psykers or a psyker that wasnt careful enough in their defence.
Also, Fulgrim has been possessed by the Daemon in the sword and is thought (known?) to be trapped within his own body still, not in control. This is still possible (ie a person being possessed through the use of/carrying a tainted weapon/artifact) as seen in one of the Gaunts Ghosts novels where someone becomes possessed when a tainted artifact becomes embedded in his body, and also why it is heresy to own or use tainted weapons and artifacts

Daemons can posess non psykers. They talk to you and promise you power if you give in and use them. At first it's possible to use them and still control the daemon but the more you use them the easier it is for the daemon to forcefully take control.

It is possible to fight of the daemon indefinately but usually the person will give in when presented with a situtation where they desperately want the power. This isn't always a selfish action, the daemon will appeal to your better side too. A lot of people break when they believe giving into the power can bring good.

Also it's possible to take back control. This isn't usually permanent as keeping control is very hard and the daemon can last longer than any human.

It depends, on a force of daemon and on a will of victim ( for example Grey Knight cannot be possessed, Inquisitors can - but much harder ).

Daemons can posses normal Humans without any trouble. I think it takes them time to posses a psyker. But instead of possessing him, they talk to him and they are slowly getting him to be possessed. I think, for example, Emperor and his Primarch are very hard to possess. But daemon can without problem posses Creed or Yarrick.

But it also depends, if a man have strong will - he can exorcist daemon from himself ( Illuminiti ). But such cases are rare. A man can be possessed and even don't know that ( like in "Daemonfuge" comic ).

Possessions don't always occur to psykers. There used to be a unit called a Daemonhost which was an oridnary person abducted and forced to give their body to a daemon so that the inquisition could study the subject.

yes, it is possable for a deamon to posess a non-psyker but this is a tougher thing.



one on hand, a non-psyker doesn't have the inherent capability to activly resist a deamon.

however, they also have little to no warp capabilities and so the deamon will be limited and more uncomfortable in the body then in a nice cozy psyker.

Brother Coa wrote:Daemons can posses normal Humans without any trouble. I think it takes them time to posses a psyker. But instead of possessing him

Any human, psyker or otherwise can be possessed by deamons, only those that have been trained or binded are more protected from possession.

In 40K it is described that each human has a presence in the warp, described as a light, these lights attract deamons or other warp entities that wish to feed on it. The reason that psykers present a more dangerous threat of possession is because their souls burn much brighter, so attract stronger warp entities and in using warp power, a psyker has to ''open their soul'' allowing deamons a greater chance of success.

Renbags wrote:Possessions don't always occur to psykers. There used to be a unit called a Daemonhost which was an oridnary person abducted and forced to give their body to a daemon so that the inquisition could study the subject.

While this is true, a Daemonhost (specifically) is created or summoned which is how the possession occurs, whereas possession without summoning occurs mainly through psykers.
So a Daemonhost is created whereas a psyker can be possessed (even though the Daemonhost is possessed as well if that makes sense)

BluntmanDC wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Daemons can posses normal Humans without any trouble. I think it takes them time to posses a psyker. But instead of possessing him

Any human, psyker or otherwise can be possessed by deamons, only those that have been trained or binded are more protected from possession.

In 40K it is described that each human has a presence in the warp, described as a light, these lights attract deamons or other warp entities that wish to feed on it. The reason that psykers present a more dangerous threat of possession is because their souls burn much brighter, so attract stronger warp entities and in using warp power, a psyker has to ''open their soul'' allowing deamons a greater chance of success.

I can see the truth in this. All humans and Eldar have a warp presence, this would make any one of them a potential target. The thing is, why would they want a regular person? Theres nothing special about them, they have no position of power or influence.... Psykers however are usually valuable in one way or another. I would say the Emperor was and probably still is attacked every second of everyday but obviously he is to strong willed.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Daemons can posses normal Humans without any trouble. I think it takes them time to posses a psyker. But instead of possessing him

Any human, psyker or otherwise can be possessed by deamons, only those that have been trained or binded are more protected from possession.

In 40K it is described that each human has a presence in the warp, described as a light, these lights attract deamons or other warp entities that wish to feed on it. The reason that psykers present a more dangerous threat of possession is because their souls burn much brighter, so attract stronger warp entities and in using warp power, a psyker has to ''open their soul'' allowing deamons a greater chance of success.

I can see the truth in this. All humans and Eldar have a warp presence, this would make any one of them a potential target. The thing is, why would they want a regular person? Theres nothing special about them, they have no position of power or influence.... Psykers however are usually valuable in one way or another. I would say the Emperor was and probably still is attacked every second of everyday but obviously he is to strong willed.

Even a normal person is still a way into realspace, the only problem is that its limited, but its still a way in and therefore highly valued. I think that the value of a psyker is coincidental tbh, the way in is the key.
And yes, im with you on the Emperor, he is fighting all day every day keeping Humanity from being overwhelmed, and doing the same for himself.

Naturally, the Emperor is in no danger of posession.

the Chaos Gods themselves fear him.

Grey Templar wrote:Naturally, the Emperor is in no danger of posession.

the Chaos Gods themselves fear him.

As they should!!

Also, a side question.....

Why doesnt the emperor just waltz into the front door of each chaos god and beat them to death? (apart from bad sales for GW. ) He is in the warp after all.....

xXSir MontyXx wrote:Also, a side question.....

Why doesnt the emperor just waltz into the front door of each chaos god and beat them to death? (apart from bad sales for GW. ) He is in the warp after all.....

Well he is not quietly...his soul and true power are imprisoned in his body. And until he dies we will not know that. And giving the Inquisition and Imperial Creed - that will be very hard. He use his power in the warp to protect Human souls from been taken by Chaos Gods, and to guide Human ships ( only there you need immense power to do that... ).

In 'reality' you cannot be possessed unless you somehow consent.

yes, but we arn't talking about 'real' deamonic posession

xXSir MontyXx wrote:Also, a side question.....

Why doesnt the emperor just waltz into the front door of each chaos god and beat them to death? (apart from bad sales for GW. ) He is in the warp after all.....

Although the Emperor has a powerful warp presense, he is still not a warp entity, until his body fully dies he will be tethered to Terra. Basically the Emperor is a destroyer warship in dry dock.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:they have no position of power or influence.... Psykers however are usually valuable in one way or another.

That statement makes little sence, 99.9% of high ranking humans in the IoM are not psykers, a deamon would find the possession of a planetary govener, IG or IN leader etc very useful. Psykers that are in positions of power, such as inquisitors or those on Terra are either trained to defend themselves or binded to the Emperor's will. Most psykers that do get possessed are usually normal low social status unsanctioned psykers.

That statement makes little sence, 99.9% of high ranking humans in the IoM are not psykers, a deamon would find the possession of a planetary govener, IG or IN leader etc very useful. Psykers that are in positions of power, such as inquisitors or those on Terra are either trained to defend themselves or binded to the Emperor's will. Most psykers that do get possessed are usually normal low social status unsanctioned psykers.

I didnt mean it to sound political, I just meant valuable. The Imperium relies heavily on psykers for tasks such as; long range communication, warp travel, Astronomicon, etc. These tasks alone are extremely important and would cripple even the largest fleet if they didn't have access to them.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:

That statement makes little sence, 99.9% of high ranking humans in the IoM are not psykers, a deamon would find the possession of a planetary govener, IG or IN leader etc very useful. Psykers that are in positions of power, such as inquisitors or those on Terra are either trained to defend themselves or binded to the Emperor's will. Most psykers that do get possessed are usually normal low social status unsanctioned psykers.

I didnt mean it to sound political, I just meant valuable. The Imperium relies heavily on psykers for tasks such as; long range communication, warp travel, Astronomicon, etc. These tasks alone are extremely important and would cripple even the largest fleet if they didn't have access to them.

Navigators are extremely hard to possess, the Emperor made them that way and astropaths are all bonded to the Emperor so have a major deal of protection. As already said most possessions of psykers occurs with unsanctioned/unknowing psykers that have had no training, it is one of the reasons why the Black Ships are so important to protection human worlds.

Most of the times the possession is volunteer, but a regular Imperium citizen from a distant world might be possessed or become the gate for a daemonic invasion...

IronChaos wrote:Most of the times the possession is volunteer, but a regular Imperium citizen from a distant world might be possessed or become the gate for a daemonic invasion...

huh? you mean a cultist or a CSM then? otherwise its NOT voluntary

IronChaos wrote:Most of the times the possession is volunteer, but a regular Imperium citizen from a distant world might be possessed or become the gate for a daemonic invasion...

I don't think yop have read much fluff if that is your view. In the IoM Black Ships scour the galaxy for psykers to stop untrained psykers unwittingly unleashing an deamonic infestation on a world. It really does lower the fear factor of a deamon if it is unable to possess someone who 'just said no'.

It really does lower the fear factor of a deamon if it is unable to possess someone who 'just said no'.

Actually, a demons main tactic is peer pressure, be above the influence..... or burn for your heresy.

Yeah I know! Only a Cultist or a CSM would be a possession volunteer. And when I said what you noticed BluntmanDC, I was refering to one of the 5th edition rulebook fluuf pages (in the daemons section), which talks about a daemonic incursion made through an innocent farmer. I didn't suppose that is the main rule, it isn't!

Phototoxin wrote:In 'reality' you cannot be possessed unless you somehow consent.

In the Abnett novel "Malleus", the daemon Prophaniti possesses Eisenhorn's servant Husmaan after its previous host-body is destroyed. The daemon reveals that the bounty hunter was the closest, "most open" mind. No consent or ritual required, the daemon just brute-forced its way in.

Sooooo... was Horus ACTUALLY possessed by a daemon? Or was he just drunk on power?

SpeedingParticle wrote:Sooooo... was Horus ACTUALLY possessed by a daemon? Or was he just drunk on power?

He was filled with the combined power of all four chaos gods, there has never been any fluff at all to suggest that he was ever possessed.