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I've been fooling around lately,

with some army lists for the IG and I've been concentrating my attention on artillery barrage. I wanted to make something different from the Leman Russ spam army with blobs, and I wondered what could be done with a lovely artillery barrage.

The Griffon seems a good choice due to its STR and AP value, it is accurate and gives a lot of firepower with good rolls... and has a large blast.

I thought about packing a total of 6 Griffons splitted in couples following FOC, they would annoy and give the enemy a lot of troubles, in the worst case scenario a TAC unit of Marines could have to save 20 hits, so surely some damage will be done.

In the end, what do you think of the Griffon ? Is it worthy or is it not ?

Good for the twin linking in a battery where you can get the range to work. On their own, I would take a mortar HWS instead and I could then take a 75pt hydra in the HS slot instead.

I found the griffin underwhelming against MEQ's but against horde it's a godsend. I'd rather take a collossus or bassy instead. I've been interested in a barrage list for some time but I havn't painted most of my regular force yet so it'll have to stay on hold. My inclination was a manticore, some basilisks and some colossus. That's an anti tank manticore, anti-infantry colossus, and heavy infantry/anti transport lisks'. The hydra's nice but since it can only fire directly it's too risky for me and the griffin isn't effective enough against marines to warrent me considering it.

ruminator wrote:Good for the twin linking in a battery where you can get the range to work. On their own, I would take a mortar HWS instead and I could then take a 75pt hydra in the HS slot instead.

Are you referring to using a Griffon and something else together to improve accuracy? This is one of the worst uses of artillery in the game. The disadvantages are far greater than the small advantage. Low AP for wound allocation and poor range synergy just make it a silly tactic.

Griffons are probably the best artillery to squadron. The increased accuracy and the ability to get a pair of them for the cost of some of the other choices makes them pretty good. It is only the AP that makes people forget about them. I would say that six may be a bit much but a single squad of two or three can work wonders.

Trickstick wrote:Griffons are probably the best artillery to squadron. The increased accuracy and the ability to get a pair of them for the cost of some of the other choices makes them pretty good. It is only the AP that makes people forget about them. I would say that six may be a bit much but a single squad of two or three can work wonders.

That is what I was wondering. I'm known in my gaming group for rolling a lot of HIT with the dice so I'm not afraid of deviations, besides that, the variable number of shots that a Griffon can make , makes it an excellent way to suppress even MEQs. Ok, they are tough, with a high save... but try to save over 15 wonds PER turn.

That's gonna wipe out almost every unit. They can't roll good forever!

I'll think about making a squadron of three Griffons and see what's going to happen anyway

Griffons rock, simple as. WARNING notprop is fanatical about Griffons (see my Griffon Plog!).

I take one at 1000pts and two squadroned over it.

They are well worth it for a few reasons:

1) Cheap - only the chimera and sentinals are cheaper vehicles. The Hydra does compete in this spot at this price but I usually have ACs elsewhere and with Melta powerblobs filling the Troops section you shouldn't have too much of a problem with the enemy closing down the range in their transports.

2) Accurate bombardment - A great special rule, with only slightly better than a 1 in 3 chace of a hit (because of BS adjustments) this really helps to land the shots most of the time. We have all had games where a vitally powerful weapon misses most of the game, well this happens less often with a Griffon, pleasingly so. I have never used this with other artillery units as a squadron, at 12"-48" range you might find that there isn't allot of overlap, Its also really beardy so don't do it!

3) Its actually quite effective - As you sort of demonstrate with your title, opponents often under estimate Griffons. "only S6, you should have had a Manticore/Bassi/more Leman Russes". When those S6 pies are consistantly landing on their units, they often change their "ignore it plan" and start diverting units to deal with it. If it dies good as what ever killed it is not attacking your other main units (which will probably be greater in number and/or more upgraded on account that you only spent 75pts here!).

4) Strenth 6 ORDNANCE! - Important bit highlighted. S6 will rack up kills against most infantry units plus the inevitable pinning tests. Naturally hordes will die in droves and you can even ID T3 characters which is nice. Against T4 you also have a nice wound roll, so you should still be racking up those pinning tests. It will troble MEQ, two together murders them.

Also in a pinch it can take out transports quite well. Since it is usually hidden behind terrain, targets quite often face away against pereived threats and leave those AV10/11 sides open for the D6 reroll or ordnance.

Now 6 in an army (Don't get me wrong, thats a whole battery - very cool!), it just seems like too much. Griffons perform well when they are wrong footing you opponent, so when he is confident that those battlecannon shots have been used and the threat is over. What are those chimera hulls doing? - BAMM! If they wise up and target the Griffons then the AV14 battle cannons can run wild! If I was l33t I would call this synergy, i'm not so I just think its cool.

Final warning - If Griffons play well you might totally unhinge netlist players who can't think beyond the l33t metality. For this final reason alone they are well worth it.

I personally love griffons.

They are pretty cheap, excellent against horde armies and usually TOTALLY underestimated!

also as the previous poster said, str 6 ordanance, pinning and insta kills on t3's. Heck Ive even used them against marines and racked up lots of kills simply through the amount of the sods being hit lol.

also for some reason whenever I use them they are exceptionally lucky!

This is it, the Dice Gods love them a Griffon!

The griffons problem is it competes with more powerful and versatile heavy slots. I think they are good for the points, but their low S and range means manticores, medusas, hydras, and russes are going to much more useful in many more situations.

I like griffons when I'm playing at 1000 points or less due to the lack of armor I'll be facing at that point level. Usually, it's 2 Hydras and 2 Griffons in a mech list, which is usually enough to take down most armor you face at that point level. It's also good vs. foot lists at that level.

Past 1k points, I'll take basilisks or a manticore. I find that the effectiveness of the Griffon is reduced at those point level dues to the abundance of armor. Str 6 is great, don't get me wrong; I'll spam multilasers till the cows come home. But I need my ordnance to really pop tanks and hordes.

It comes down to personal preference. I like them. For an artillery park, I like taking a manticore, a basilisk, and two griffons.

Griffons are only good if you like killing infantry. Which is to say, they are almost always good. Yes, their AP is unimpressive, but cover gives most troops a degree of shielding against AP anyway. Between scattering and cover, I usually only kill 2-3 guys with most battle cannon hits anyway, which is not terribly different than a griffon hit. They won't do as well against guys in the open, but you have 3 HS slots.

Their range is excellent, 12-48" is long enough to cover most of the board, with a short enough minimum to not be a hindrance. Anything within 12" is going to be well within "move 6" and shoot heavy flamer" range. Between scattering and cover, I usually only kill a few guys with most battle cannon hits anyway.

They have a low profile, both the physical model and in many opponents' minds. They are difficult to see, and they don't seem too deadly to many armies, so they are more likely to be ignored.

I prefer the Colossus to the Griffon. I know that costs almost twice as much, but it is AP3 and models hit by it do not get armor saves. The Colossus can do a lot of damage to MEQs and are a great way to bust up those pesky Long Fang missile squads.

No, griffons aren't really worth it. If you want to keep the price tag low, take a hydra. If you want cheap artillery that will actually do something, take a basilisk.

Against opponents who know what displacement means, the griffon's blast template will start to suffer against infantry, while never being much to praise about against tanks. At least with the hydra, you're decent against really light vehicles, and spreading out doesn't hurt them, and basilisks can at least target vehicles effectively once the troops start spreading out.

Look, I don't play IG. But I'm a fan of Griffons. They are cheap, accurate, and will cause lots of wounds/pinning tests (at -1 Ld).

If I played IG, I would use them.

darn tooting!

Griffons are very good! (in my opinion)

Griffons are very good. Cheap, decent strength, decent AP, and can re-roll scatter dice.

That said, Colossus are bloody amazing, and I definitely recommend trying one or two out as a proxy or something if you're thinking about including artillery in a list. Same strength as the griffon, but are AP 3 and ignore cover. So yeah, they miss a little more often, but they still do a ton more damage.

Griffon = Good
Colossus = Great! If you hit.

Griffons cause more damage on average, in lower point games (<1500) anyway.

I've used griffons a few times and they always seem to do well. While the str. 6 might not seem like much, the fact that its ordinance and hits side armor and basically ignores most cover against vehicles means a pair of them is actually pretty decent against vehicles too. While max spacing will reduce its effectiveness, its not always possible especially in a mech heavy environment. Use other parts of your army to dismount an enemy, then spank them with a couple of griffon shots on the now disembarked and probably clumped up enemy. Even marines wont like taking that many saves. The fact that it also causing pinning at -1 Ld is very nice as well and gives them synergy with Psyker Battle Squads.

oh good Lord, that's cheesy... Psyker Battle Squads + Griffons, that's the way to make a squad kneel for cover for sure! Despite my bad luck, where the opponent will obtain a double 1 for sure obviously.

I like it

I think I'm gonna try 4 Griffons on next game, I'll have to rely on Sentinels to kill vehicles

They are awesome.

cheap cheap armour, great distraction for your opponent, and their abilities over a normal mortor are worth it.

also has the potential to kill transports, due to barrage hitting side armour

If you hit a unit with weaken resolve then the extra -1LD is not really necessary.

Dammit!

I played 7 games at the weekend, most with 2 Griffons in the force and never once remembered the -1LD!

Griffons are great at lower points 1000 or less. At 1500+ you want to use things like Manticores because they can hit vehicles if there is no infantry to shoot. Strength 10 also denies fnp from plague marines and insta gibs thunderwolves

So, what is everybody really pinning with these? There is so much out there with high leadership or fearless, (or, if we're bringing weaken resolve into this, stubborn) that people's opponents must be getting rather unlucky here.

Plus, all artillery causes -1, including good artillery.

Also, for the price of two griffons, you can get a single manticore. I definitely know which I'd rather have...

Ailaros wrote:So, what is everybody really pinning with these? There is so much out there with high leadership or fearless, (or, if we're bringing weaken resolve into this, stubborn) that people's opponents must be getting rather unlucky here.

There is enough out there that it is still useful.

Ailaros wrote:Plus, all artillery causes -1, including good artillery.

But nothing does it so cheap.

Ailaros wrote:Also, for the price of two griffons, you can get a single manticore. I definitely know which I'd rather have...

Manticores are great thats for sure, on average they will shoot as many pie plates as 2 Griffins and the strength is great to have, but the accuracy re-roll is not to be underestimated, particularly in low point games where units are easier to spread out.

Ailaros wrote:Also, for the price of two griffons, you can get a single manticore. I definitely know which I'd rather have...

A single manticore everytime. That's what I mean, a griffon is not bad, it's just so outclassed by the other heavies it's unreal.

The selection of Griffon vs. Basilisk, Manticore, etc, all depends on what is in your army, what strengths you're trying to add, and the points level. As has been mentioned, low points are especially good for Griffons, because heavy armor will be rarer (making other heavy choices a bit less desirable) and you won't be filling up all 3 heavy slots with the heavy hitters. 75 points still lets you field something pretty damaging for the slot, and nothing else really compares for the points. Sure, a Hydra is the same cost, but the two have radically different uses, so the selection just depends on what you want from the heavy slot.

I would say a manticore is better at almost any pts size.

The manticore has the same AP so it will be similary effective against infantry except:
S10 also wounds T5,6,7 and 8 on a 2+
S10 also ingores FNP for virtually every unit that has it
S10 can insta-kill MEQs, Thunderwolves, Bikers, etc

The manticore also has better range.

The manticore is also significantly better against vehicles.

The manticore just totally shuts the griffon down in almost every way, except that is is not as accurate. But the minor increase in accuracy (and the manticore can still fire direct making the accuracy bonus virtually nothing) is in no way worth the serious decrease in power.

Two tanks instead of one isn't even more survivable because two is significantly harder to hide than one. Yes you have to blow up two, but you should never even be able to see one.

Griffon vs basalisk is a little less clear because their uses aren't so similar. But I'm not all the partial to basilisks to begin with.

I love my three Griffons but in any battle with more than 1500 points, I use my Manticore. The other heavy slots get filled with some type of LR and/or a Hydra. This is for a TAC mixed mech army. If I knew that I was going to face Dark Eldar, I might take the three Griffons instead of a LR because the S6 is more than sufficient versus DE with FNP and their light skimmers.