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I've been wondering this for the past couple years, ever since i first heard of problems GW had with overhead involved in keeping their physical stores afloat. Where I live, there isn't a GW store in hundreds of miles, I'm not sure where the closest one is, but I know there isn't one in my State, and I don't know of one in an adjacent state either. We do have a couple FLGS in the area, with around 6 within an hours drive. These stores have plenty of tables and terrain, hold regular tournaments, and are able to exist and turn a profit without corporate support. Is there something remarkable about GW stores I'm missing?

With the market able to support FLGSs, what is the point of GW stores?

They are the main channel of marketing the hobby to potential users.

Tabletop wargaming is a very hands on hobby in which you buy, assemble, paint and finally fight battles with the models.

By far the best way to explain this is to get people doing it. This is also the best way to support people who don't have any experience in making models and so on.

GW's main recruiting base is young teenage boys. They want to capture these guys into GW games so they can take advantage of the wave of enthusiasm that accompanies any new hobby.

The shops are one of the main venues where potential customers can participate in all aspects of the hobby.

The other main venue is clubs run by veterans. The issue that GW have with clubs is that veterans don't play only GW games, so potential customers are exposed to competition.

But not everywhere has FLGS. My nearest gaming store is Games Workshop, a 10 minute walk away. There is a FLGS locally but their stocks are VERY limited. The only other FLGS stocks Board Games and RPGs but not GW products.

Mainly GW stores have been simply to promote their presence, High Street advertising if you will.

Ugavine wrote:But not everywhere has FLGS. My nearest gaming store is Games Workshop, a 10 minute walk away. There is a FLGS locally but their stocks are VERY limited. The only other FLGS stocks Board Games and RPGs but not GW products.

Mainly GW stores have been simply to promote their presence, High Street advertising if you will.

I wouldn't either if I set up a FLGS that close to a GW store. If the GW store wasn't there, I would guarantee the FLGS would have way more stock.

GW stores are much like the Platypus. No one really knows why they exist, where they came from or what their purpose is.. However, they obviously do *something* and have an ability to survive to produce offspring.

So, that's pretty much my explanation. GW stores do *something* and in the process produce offspring (revenue). As to how or why? Im guessing its as mystical as to why the Platypus lays eggs despite being a mammal

There are people walking into my shop nearly every week that wonder why my store, and retailers in general, still exist. It's annoying.

"Wow, how can you survive? Doesn't everyone just buy from the internet? I didn't know they still made comics/games/cards/models."

I kill every third one and sacrafice their souls to the gods of capitalism.

Part of the reason questions arise about GW stores existing is because we don't have all the numbers. With an incomplete picture, we don't know how the system works, and how much profit they generate. What seems 'obvious' to us, may be totally wrong.

We only have a FLGS where I live that allow us to come by and play for free anytime we want so the physical GW stores could vanish for all I care (except for the people who would lose their jobs...that would be sad :( )

I don't get it either. I've been to a few out of town, and they were pretty well corporate.

I love FLGS tho. Mine has been around for almost 10 years, and the owner is discussing upgrading to an even larger location. He does do some internet sales as well as store front. He's said business is better and better each year.

I think GW is just trying to cut out the middleman. They saw that online retailers were doing good, so they impose restrictions on online retailers, they see that the FLGS are selling slot of GW product, so they start opening up Brick and Morter stores to drive them out of business. This is all fine, a company is there to make money, and I cant criticize them for doing that. I just feel that GW should understand that the reason people flock to online retailers is because they can get a discount (something GW has NEVER given as far as I know), and the reason people go to FLGS is because they are convenient, and not full of annoying kids / annoying salespeople trying to push the newest kit in your face.

I was talking to the local GW manager yesterday. He was saying his store averages between $3k and $5k US/week.

This came up because he's bemoaning the fact that the price increases have increased his annual target number the same amount, and he is unhappy about having to sell starter sets for $100.

The store in question is a well established one, it's one of the largest non-bunker GWs in the US (by sales volume) and has been around for eight+ years now.

He was saying at the last managers meeting, he was told that why couldn't he run his store more like one of the other, newer stores. Apparently that store raised it's weekly numbers from $600 to $800 (a 30% increase), and the $3-5k that he was doing wasn't considered, so much as the fact that it wasn't a 30% increase over the last year.

I don't know how to interpret any of this. Mikhaila, is 3-5k/week good in this industry?

Kilkrazy wrote:
The shops are one of the main venues where potential customers can participate in all aspects of the hobby.

The other main venue is clubs run by veterans. The issue that GW have with clubs is that veterans don't play only GW games, so potential customers are exposed to competition.

Another issue is, here in the UK at least Child Protection. For FLGS and even Gaming Clubs to be able to allow members under 18 to play instore is if one of more staff/member is vetted via Criminal Record Bureau Checks (CRB), the process isn't quick or free. GW does this as part of their Employment strategy meaning that young people can freely play/paint/model in their stores.

It isn't far to imagine that similar things are needed across the globe really. And as such The Brick and Mortar Stores exist to grow young (GW) Hobbyists.

And I know the pain of CRB and stuff for Wargaming is a massive pain in the backside, most clubs I have spoken to don't want the hassle.

I'm not sure that wargame clubs legally have to take CRB checks.

If they do, a lot of adults are already registered from their childrens' schools.

It costs £10 for a CRB check and usually takes about two weeks to complete.

A lot of them are required by County Councils and not just with CRB they (normally council services) want the ever so slightly more expensive Enhanced CRB, at £28 and can take 6 weeks to set up (that is what I have been told by letter).

It seems pedantic but the UK has reached that "wrap Children in cotton wool" place. Child Protection can be a little "over the top".

But I am betting that it is part of the reason why GW Stores can function the way they have been for so long.

I managed retail (not GW) and 3-5k a week is not enough to pay for space, utilities, and wages. Leasing is expensive. Unless GW owned the land and rents out the rest to a strip mall that place is leaking (I'd say hemorrhaging) money. That's why most US grocery stores are strip malling. They get the land to lease to other businesses so they can get rent checks every month.

Redbeard wrote:I was talking to the local GW manager yesterday. He was saying his store averages between $3k and $5k US/week.
This came up because he's bemoaning the fact that the price increases have increased his annual target number the same amount, and he is unhappy about having to sell starter sets for $100. The store in question is a well established one, it's one of the largest non-bunker GWs in the US (by sales volume) and has been around for eight+ years now.He was saying at the last managers meeting, he was told that why couldn't he run his store more like one of the other, newer stores. Apparently that store raised it's weekly numbers from $600 to $800 (a 30% increase), and the $3-5k that he was doing wasn't considered, so much as the fact that it wasn't a 30% increase over the last year.I don't know how to interpret any of this. Mikhaila, is 3-5k/week good in this industry?

With the change over to one man stores, they set benchmarks and are looking at percentage increase as an indicator of how well each manager is doing. This has some validity, but obviously it's easier to make a crappy store better than it is to improve a very good store by the same percentage. But there is a bonus at the end of the year, based on gross increase. I'd rather get a bonus based on increasing a store by 120k than by 5k, even though the 5k was a higher percentage.)

As to the numbers: 600 to 800 dollars is fething gak. Hemoraging money. Who cares about the increase, other than giving the guy a pat on the head. That's a fine number for a FLGS who sells GW as a sideline, but very bad for a GW store that only sells GW miniatures. 8 years ago when the average GW was bigger, 20k a month was a low number. I think a store in Paris did 120k a month. The average FLGS with a small GW prescence might only do 1-2k in a month, your average store 2-4k, which is more than the 600-800 a week the one store you mentioned is doing. Quite poor for a GW store, good for a FLGS. A larger partnership level FLGS that does good with GW can do more than 10k a month in GW. Probably average now for GW stores, but on the poor end for what they did years ago when larger, and had LOTR pushing things.

You're basic question was whether 3-5k was good in the industry. 3k per week is probablyhigh average for GW stores now, in the US, 5k is doing good. For a FLGS, 3k is damn good, and 5k is going to be a number maybe only a half dozen in the country hit, counting over the counter sales, and excluding internet business.

Kilkrazy wrote:I'm not sure that wargame clubs legally have to take CRB checks.

If they do, a lot of adults are already registered from their childrens' schools.

It costs £10 for a CRB check and usually takes about two weeks to complete.

Actually you have to have a CRB check done for every differently site activity you do and when you start a new one.

So I for example have had to have a CRB check at every school site that I have works going on on.

A teacher of long standing at one school would have to have a new one do if he/she transferred employment to another school as well.

I think the current government are taking action to curb this sort of thing.

They exist because GW knows their importance in ensuring a future for the hobby. And no, not their hobby, the hobby.

mikhaila wrote:There are people walking into my shop nearly every week that wonder why my store, and retailers in general, still exist. It's annoying.

"Wow, how can you survive? Doesn't everyone just buy from the internet? I didn't know they still made comics/games/cards/models."

I kill every third one and sacrafice their souls to the gods of capitalism.

Its posts like this that make me want to visit your store more and more

The GCN offer free CRB checks.. plus you can advertise in GW!

They were supposed to be doing a ISA (summink safeguarding authority) number but that's not come in yet.

Lets see:
uni enhanced crb for school mentoring
previous job : enhanced CRB, terrorist check, police check
now - nothing ^^ but enhanced CRB again for youth work...

Also the 5 years previous addresses is eevil when you've emigrated and then moved back (for uni!) aaaargh!

But yes, GW might be evil, but they're generally not convicted pœdos!

Creeping Dementia wrote:I've been wondering this for the past couple years, ever since i first heard of problems GW had with overhead involved in keeping their physical stores afloat. Where I live, there isn't a GW store in hundreds of miles, I'm not sure where the closest one is, but I know there isn't one in my State, and I don't know of one in an adjacent state either. We do have a couple FLGS in the area, with around 6 within an hours drive. These stores have plenty of tables and terrain, hold regular tournaments, and are able to exist and turn a profit without corporate support. Is there something remarkable about GW stores I'm missing?

With the market able to support FLGSs, what is the point of GW stores?

Not for you.

The only thing I can say that is remarkable is the amount of MILFs that go into the GW stores and prowl the strip malls.

Other then that? Support your LGS.

I looked into commercial property in Richmond, Surrey (west London for non-UKers) a few years ago.

The cost of a lease was £3,000 to £6,000 per month for a small to medium size space. That's just the rent, nothing for utilities, shopfitting, staffing, insurance, business rates, and stock.

There used to be a GW shop in Richmond and it closed down during the efficiency purges a few years ago.

Kilkrazy wrote:I looked into commercial property in Richmond, Surrey (west London for non-UKers) a few years ago.

The cost of a lease was £3,000 to £6,000 per month for a small to medium size space. That's just the rent, nothing for utilities, shopfitting, staffing, insurance, business rates, and stock.

There used to be a GW shop in Richmond and it closed down during the efficiency purges a few years ago.

In fairness Richmond is one of the most expensive places in the UK. Most residential properties there start at a million+ and the council tax is the highest in the UK I believe. It's pretty stuffy there, even the McDonald's has to have a wooden front (like ye'old McDonald's) so it doesn't spoil the view.

I remember the the Games Workshop you are referring to, it was actually quite tiny. I figured they closed it because there is a bigger Games Workshop in nearby Kingston, and having two so close probably wasn't very profitable.

To lock out competition. As long as you play at a GW store you won't be exposed to non GW games.

You know, there's a difference when it comes to how British GW stores operate, and how American GW stores operate.

In the UK, the GW store often seems to BE the FLGS.

In the US, the FLGS always seems to be the local comic store, or perhaps the local D&D den. GW stores are much less prevalent, much more spread out, and generally come into an area that already has a game store in it.

I've never understood GW stores. It appears that they hemorrhage money!

I don't really even understand the marketing behind it. I was introduced to GW in two ways. The first was a high end toy store had a couple of boxes of RTB01's I instantly fell in love, but I really couldn't afford $30 when I was in 8th grade! A few months later I saw GW at the new comic book shop and all they had were some metal blisters for WFB so I picked up my first copy of White Dwarf. I ordered the rule book and my 1st box of RTB01's from Crazy Igor's discount games warehouse, 30 marines and the Rogue Trader rule book for a whopping $36 including shipping.

That FLGS had all kinds of tournaments, they got me to play 40K, Bloodbowl, Epic, WFB, Spacehulk, and Heroquest, not to mention Battletech, Nuclear war, Magic the Gathering and many other non GW games. We played at the store, we played in peoples basements.

I don't know if you could have ever gotten me to just walk into a GW store with no introduction. I certainly would never have started if the pricing was as out of whack then as it is now.

GW stores help promote the hobby. Online retailers are evil people destroying it.

Smacks wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:I looked into commercial property in Richmond, Surrey (west London for non-UKers) a few years ago.

The cost of a lease was £3,000 to £6,000 per month for a small to medium size space. That's just the rent, nothing for utilities, shopfitting, staffing, insurance, business rates, and stock.

There used to be a GW shop in Richmond and it closed down during the efficiency purges a few years ago.

In fairness Richmond is one of the most expensive places in the UK. Most residential properties there start at a million+ and the council tax is the highest in the UK I believe. It's pretty stuffy there, even the McDonald's has to have a wooden front (like ye'old McDonald's) so it doesn't spoil the view.

I remember the the Games Workshop you are referring to, it was actually quite tiny. I figured they closed it because there is a bigger Games Workshop in nearby Kingston, and having two so close probably wasn't very profitable.

What you say is true. Richmond is also a place with a large population of well-off parents of teenage boys.

The point is that GW expanded beyond their capability and had to retreat.

There are now 10 only GWs within a 10 mile radius of central London.

Ysclyth wrote:GW stores help promote the hobby. Online retailers are evil people destroying it.

You are joking right?

Andrew1975 wrote:

Ysclyth wrote:GW stores help promote the hobby. Online retailers are evil people destroying it.

You are joking right?

In my neck of the woods, Southern California, most GW stores are located in malls. They have a tendency to attract a lot of attention and get a lot of people walking into the store to ask what's going on and what product they're selling. I talked to one of the managers and he mentioned that most of his business runs on the proper introduction of the hobby to these passerbyers.

He'll easy get over a hundred new potential customers everyday.