Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I have read the codex cover to cover many times and it seems the only way for meganobz to get the 5+ invul save is if I take MAd Doc as a HQ choice, which burns my Ghaz and Big Mek with KFF build. Can anyone explain how this makes any sense and why GW thought this was a good idea, I mean they are in their own form of Termie armor why don't they have an option to get an invul save? I am inviting any comments or discussions anyone can throw my way to explain this lack of an option.

Add Mad Dok Grotsnik....profit?

Not a YMDC question

Why should they? They already get a PK and shoota for 5 points cheaper than their 'eavy nob counterpart. If they are cheaper in every way there has to be some sort of drawback.

You have to choose if you want a 2+ save with crushing power and limited flexibility or ultimate flexibility with less staying power.

MANZ are not Terminators. Working as intended!

Take Mad Doc Grotsnik if you want Cybok bodies(a decent purchase)


the purpose of MANs is to face enemies that can't bypass their 2+ armor, such as Tactical marines or Vehicles.

they also have 2 wounds to compensate for not having a 5++

But they are subject to the slow and purposeful rule and I just did not understand fluff wise why they did not have it as an option since they are built into metal suits as it is? And is MAd Dok a better option then Ghaz and a Big Mek with KFF?

If this is not a YMDC post then where does it belong cause I was kinda unsure about where to post it?

YMDC is for questions on how a rule works, not why a unit does or does not have a certain rule. And if in doubt as to where to make a post, then your best bet is to post in General Discussions.

Ghaz wrote:YMDC is for questions on how a rule works, not why a unit does or does not have a certain rule. And if in doubt as to where to make a post, then your best bet is to post in General Discussions.

Makes sense then I will attempt to move this

Cutthroatcure wrote:I mean they are in their own form of Termie armor why don't they have an option to get an invul save?

They don't?

Cutthroatcure wrote:...my Ghaz and Big Mek with KFF build.

There's your 'invulnerable' save right there.


They don't have the option to be identical to Terminators because they're not Terminators. If every army has the same options, there's not much point having more than one army...


Moving to 40K general, as this isn't an actual rules issue.

Thank you

who needs kff when you have inv saves from mad doc. plsu mad doc can be used to give them cyborks and then you cna have a big mek w/ kff if you really want it.

a fun 1750 list for fast games i like to run is ghaz, mad doc, 19 meganobs (3 groups of 5, one group of 4 attached to mad doc) cybork all the nobs, throw em in 4 trukks and thurn 2 waaagh after zooming the rukks turn 1 if you go first (hide em and zoom out turn 2 if not) fill in with one group of grots rokkti biggies and you have very few models bt lots of mini death stars hitting fast and hard (with mega armor and cyborks thanks to da doc!)

you just have to realise you can't have the kff cyborks and big mek cover save... btu it'ld be op if you could anyway imo

In my current list i run 4 Trukks and 2 BW, Ghaz and a Big Mek with KFF..To get the trukks to the location for a turn 2 assualt. That is in my 1500 point list. I run 5 meganobs with Ghaz and have found out that Invul saves could really help then when going against the big baddies with power weapons....I was not sure if Mad Dok was worth it

G00fySmiley wrote:who needs kff when you have inv saves from mad doc. plsu mad doc can be used to give them cyborks and then you cna have a big mek w/ kff if you really want it.

a fun 1750 list for fast games i like to run is ghaz, mad doc, 19 meganobs (3 groups of 5, one group of 4 attached to mad doc) cybork all the nobs, throw em in 4 trukks and thurn 2 waaagh after zooming the rukks turn 1 if you go first (hide em and zoom out turn 2 if not) fill in with one group of grots rokkti biggies and you have very few models bt lots of mini death stars hitting fast and hard (with mega armor and cyborks thanks to da doc!)

you just have to realise you can't have the kff cyborks and big mek cover save... btu it'ld be op if you could anyway imo

the KFFs save is better.


the Cybork has an advantage in that it isn't dependent on another model remaining alive and that it works in CC too.

Both saves are 5+, and the KFF has been pretty helpful so far

O thats right

its a 4+ for vehicles.

Nope I am pretty sure it is a 5+ all around....For Unit and Vehicles

No, it says Vehicles become obscured.


Obscured Vehicles have a 4+ cover save against all penetrating and glancing hits.

Well hell yeah...I have been using 5+ all this time, your comment really just made my day!

Grey Templar wrote:Obscured Vehicles have a 4+ cover save against all penetrating and glancing hits.

This is false.

Obscured vehicles take the same cover save as infantry do... as in, they take whatever save is appropriate for whatever it is that is obscuring them.

Vehicles that are counted as obscured by something that isn't physically obscuring them (such as the KFF) have a 4+ cover save if the item that is obscuring them doesn't specify a save value.

which the KFF doesn't specify for Vehicles. the 5+ is for infantry only.

Grey Templar wrote:which the KFF doesn't specify for Vehicles. the 5+ is for infantry only.

That's going to come down to personal interpretation until they FAQ it... and it's not worth getting into yet again.

Your 'obscured vehicles take a 4+ save' has bigger ramifications than just the KFF, though, which is why I thought it should be pointed out.

true, but very few people run mixed cover.


occasionally we have hedges that give a 5+, but vehicles are usually hiding behind each other.

With the 5+ Inv. save they would equal Terminators, which they really don't

yeah, they are slightly better then terminators with that 5+. which is why it takes an HQ to allow them to buy the 5+.

you can do it, but its expensive.

Exactly, how much would a Meganob with cybork body cost?

45 points plus any other upgrades you gave him.

and he essentially has the same equipment as a Terminator. Powerfist, tl-shoota, 2+ 5++ saves.

he has 2 wounds, but this is balanced by BS2.

Terminator w/ TH and SS - 40 pts, Strength 8 attacks, 3+ Inv. Save

aaaand your point?

Str 9 on the charge....And the KFF says 5+ so would the obscurred rule not just fall under the 5+ since it is stated?

45 points is all they would cost with Cybork unless you wanted them to have Combi weapons but IMO they are not worth it.

So is it a 4+ or a 5+?

but it specifies the 5+ is for infantry while vehicles count as obscured.


when the rules were written, Obscuring made Penetrating hits become glancing hits. it didn't give a cover save.

the 5+ is completely seperate from Obscuring. so it follows the current Obscured rules, which is a 4+ unless specifically specified.