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Ive been playing alot of games lately, and so have been thinking of different ways to build my Orks. Mostly for fun, but also as an excuse to use units Ork players dont normally take. So while thinking on how to play differently, I had a thought. What about instead of a Kan wall, I make a rokkit buggy wall instead. I would take the usual 3x20 boyz mobs with typical pk/nob, 2 KFF bigmeks and 2 or 3 full squadrons of rokkit buggies to play the part of the wall. They are 35pts a pop, so depending on how you would load out a kan, they can be quite a bit cheaper then a kan squadron. Also, they are AV10, and thats only 1 point off a kan, and once you factor in the KFF save, it would have almost the same chances of surviving as the kans would.

Sure there are some short comings. No DCCW stick out the most, and they can really only take rokkits to do anything. You cant bring in the BS, simply because the buggies are TL and any math hammerer our there would tell you that a TL BS2 is slightly better then a single BS3 shot. So only rokkits (unless you REALLY wanted to skimp on points but why would you do that?) and no DCCW. They can go pretty fast, so with all the extra movement you can basically put them wherever you want them as far as the KFF bubble goes.

So the main perk, to me in this though, is it frees up the incredibly coveted heavy support section, and will only take up the fast attack section, which everyone will agree, your either taking rokkit buggies anyways, or deffkoptas, so in this roll its an easy choice. So now you could take 5 deff dreads if you went crazy and have them scattered throughout the mass of boyz behind the wall. That would easily boost up the lack of DCCW. Or really, anything from the heavy slot, because rather then taking your kans to get the wall effect, you are free to try other units. And since your saving 30+ points (probably more since you dont put a bigshoota on a Kan) you can add other goodies to your army.

Thoughts? And be critical, I really want this idea beaten up

Its an interseting idea for sure. My only problem with it is with them being armor 10 now you open up more shooting options to hurt them. Bolters can now glance them and all they have to do is immobilize it and boom!

Also you mention about there extra speed, sure you are right they are fast. but the problem with that is then the KFF's can't keep up and you don't have the 4+ cover on your buggies. What I might do is build a Speed freek list with boys in trukks and then have the wall of buggies. Even though I would do trakks. So it would be something like this.

B B B B B B B B B
T T/Mek T T T/mek T

Maybe something like that. Then just move everything as one whole unit. Could be kinda fun..

Anyways good luck!

I see where you're going with it, and I think it has some potential.

I think you'd have an advantage with maneuverability. A problem I frequently run into with my Kan wall is turn 1 and 2 when my Kans are still running to get in range. If your Kans roll a "1" then it can really screw up the movement of all the Ork boyz behind them. With 12" movement on a Buggy, you won't have that problem.

The other advantage is that when your Boyz are in range to shoot / assault, the Buggies can zoom off to the flanks.

Disadvantages are that your wall is a LOT more fragile. In addition to only having Armor 10, you're also open-topped. Even a glancing hit has a good chance of destroying a Buggy. You're really going to be relying on that KFF save.

All in all I think the success of this plan really depends on your synergy with the rest of your list. What are you going to use those coveted Heavy Support slots for if you're not using Kans?

The Rokkit Buggy "wall" is already utilized by many BW lists. The buggys add the ever useful rokkits to the list, while also providing screening to the BWs, as they can block charge lanes from assaulty units, keep fast melta units out the dreaded 6" threat range, and force DSing units away. In this way, they fullfill a vital role of forming a "wall" of protection for the BWs.

For a foot list I don't see the "Buggy Wall" as usefull. Their lower armor, in addition to being opened topped, makes them nowhere near as survivable as the Kans. Additionally, the buggies provide no assault/counter-assault capabilities which is a huge deal to a foot list. Finally, if screening boys on foot, the buggies have to give up their greatest advantage, which is speed, in order to maintain the "wall" for the boys.

Now, buggies in addition to a Kanwall, rather then the traditional Koptas, is a great way to mix things up. The buggies can stay in KFF range unitil they are in range to hit a juicy target, plus they add more amor to a list that is already saturated with 9 AV 11 Kans. This provides even more target saturation for the protection of the Kanwall, as well as some much needed speed for the list....plus, more Rokkits!

So after reading and commenting on I decided to try a list. So I opened up my trusty Army Builder program and this is what I came up with.

2000 Pts - Codex: Orks Roster

HQ: Big Mek (1#, 125 pts)
1 Big Mek, 125 pts 'Eavy Armour; Attack Squig; Kustom Force Field; Burna

HQ: Big Mek (1#, 125 pts)
1 Big Mek, 125 pts 'Eavy Armour; Attack Squig; Kustom Force Field; Burna

Troops: Boyz (13#, 177 pts)
11 Boyz, 177 pts Choppa & Slugga
1 Boyz Nob Bosspole; Power Klaw; Big Shoota
1 Trukk Armour Plates; Boarding Plank; Reinforced Ram; Rokkit Launcha

Troops: Boyz (13#, 177 pts)
11 Boyz, 177 pts Choppa & Slugga
1 Boyz Nob Bosspole; Power Klaw; Big Shoota
1 Trukk Armour Plates; Boarding Plank; Reinforced Ram; Rokkit Launcha

Troops: Boyz (13#, 172 pts)
11 Boyz, 177 pts Choppa & Slugga
1 Boyz Nob Bosspole; Power Klaw; Big Shoota
1 Trukk Armour Plates; Boarding Plank; Reinforced Ram; Big Shoota

Troops: Boyz (13#, 172 pts)
11 Boyz, 177 pts Choppa & Slugga
1 Boyz Nob Bosspole; Power Klaw; Big Shoota
1 Trukk Armour Plates; Boarding Plank; Reinforced Ram; Big Shoota

Troops: Boyz (12#, 166 pts)
10 Boyz, 166 pts Shootas
1 Boyz Nob Bosspole; Power Klaw; Big Shoota
1 Trukk Armour Plates; Boarding Plank; Reinforced Ram; Big Shoota

Troops: Boyz (12#, 166 pts)
10 Boyz, 166 pts Shootas
1 Boyz Nob Bosspole; Power Klaw; Big Shoota
1 Trukk Armour Plates; Boarding Plank; Reinforced Ram; Big Shoota

Fast Attack: Warbuggies (3#, 120 pts)
0 Warbuggies, 120 pts
3 Wartrakk Twin Linked Rokkit Launcha

Fast Attack: Warbuggies (3#, 120 pts)
0 Warbuggies, 120 pts
3 Wartrakk Twin Linked Rokkit Launcha

Fast Attack: Warbuggies (3#, 120 pts)
0 Warbuggies, 120 pts
3 Wartrakk Twin Linked Rokkit Launcha

Heavy Support: Looted Wagon (1#, 120 pts)
1 Looted Wagon, 120 pts Boom Gun; Armour Plates; Reinforced Ram

Heavy Support: Looted Wagon (1#, 120 pts)
1 Looted Wagon, 120 pts Boom Gun; Armour Plates; Reinforced Ram

Heavy Support: Looted Wagon (1#, 120 pts)
1 Looted Wagon, 120 pts Boom Gun; Armour Plates; Reinforced Ram

Validation Report:
c-1. File Version: 1.20 For Bug Reports/www.ab40k.org; 1. Army: Codex: Orks; b-1. Roster Options: Battle Missions, Special Characters; a-1. Scenario: Normal Mission
Roster satisfies all enforced validation rules

Composition Report:
HQ: 2 (1 - 2)
Elite: 0 (0 - 3)
Troops: 6 (2 - 6)
Fast: 3 (0 - 3)
Heavy: 3 (0 - 3)

Total Roster Cost: 2000

Created with Army Builder® - Try it for free at http://www.wolflair.com

The Wagons w Boom Guns are there just to scare the living bejezuz out of everyone so they shoot at them and not your real force..lol So what do you think?

It looks like a typical Speed Freaks list, just with Looted wagons instead of Bikes

I will agree that open topped will hurt them. So yes, relying on the KFF save will be heavy as far as that goes. But I really wouldnt count the AV so much, I mean a Kan is only 11. So the only difference is that bolters could glance it.....on a 6. So a random lucky shot I wouldnt count as deal breaking.

I already knew about using them as a wall in BW/trukk lists, Ive done that since I started using Orks. Im thinking more along the foot lines. And like I said, with the heavies open now, you can stick some Dreads in there. The main reason people dont take them is because "Kans are better" and personally I only think so because of the KFF trick, if the KFF DIDNT work that way, Kans would be ok. Dreads are fantastic and I use them alot. They make players that cant or dont take a PF really regret it, not to mention they smoke any tank out there with little effort. So when ever I get around to working this idea (I need to make some rokkit buggies again, as I turned some back into my Deffjets. Funny they started off as deffkoptas, turned into rokkit buggies and then turned back into koptas ) Id probably go with dreads to see how they work. I know that taking a tag team of dreads does work wonders


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Alerian wrote:It looks like a typical Speed Freaks list, just with Looted wagons instead of Bikes

Agreed. Besides this is a FOOT build idea, not a SPEED FREAKS build. I already went down the trukk/BW spam road and I like the foot builds better

KC, at higher points, I don't see it as a Kans Vs. Dreads thing at all.

I regularly add in 2 Dreads, as Troops, to my Kanwall at 1750 and higher, because of the 2 Meks in my list. I would never consider more than 4 Boys/Grots mobs in my Kanwall, just beacuse of table space reasons, leaving those 2 spots in the FOC free.

So, I happliy stomp across the table with 11 Walkers

If I had 9 kans I would too, seriously how awesome would a dread bash be. But like I stated, it was an idea I had and figured, lets toss it on DAKKA and the lads beat the hell out of it before I give it a go and see how it works

Also my tag team-o-dreads are almost ALWAYS troops as well

I already actually use this list at 1750

hq

big mek kff and burna 105
big mek kff and burna 105

fast

3 rokkit buggies 105
3 rokkit buggies 105
3 rokkit buggies 105

troops

dred 4 dccw grot rigger and plates 120
dred 4 dccw grot rigger and plates 120

20 boys nob pk bp 160
20 boys nob pk bp 160
20 boys nob pk bp 160
20 boys nob pk bp 160

heavy

3 kannonz 60
3 kannonz 60

elite

5 lootas 75
5 lootas 75
5 lootas 75

it is kind of a change of pace but works pretty well

**B**B**B**D**B**B**B**D**B**B**B**
boys *****MEK*boys***boys***MEK* Boys

basic tactic buggies are in front boys behind with cover save like a kan wall, in the end the dreds attract alot odf attention as they are a huge threat with 4 dccw but 12 armor with riggers and plates is hard to stop with a 4+ save in the end buggies zip off turn of the waaagh hopefully after throwing some serious rokkit dmg then continue to try and open anythign left boyz line hits with dreds if dreds are both up gratz meet your mvp's

KingCracker wrote:

Alerian wrote:It looks like a typical Speed Freaks list, just with Looted wagons instead of Bikes

Agreed. Besides this is a FOOT build idea, not a SPEED FREAKS build. I already went down the trukk/BW spam road and I like the foot builds better

Sure I understand that, but you were talking about moving the buggies up faster, so why even have the KFF if they are not going to cover the buggies. I didn't metntiion BW's either. I guess I just don't understand what you want. But honestly you could maek them all Shootas and just make a mobile gun line with your buggies to cover those trukks and the KFF's to cover tyhe buggies. But hey its just an idea.

I've never used dreds yet, so dont quite know how they play. Would you go for all DCCW or add some range to them KC?

G00fySmiley wrote:I already actually use this list at 1750

it is kind of a change of pace but works pretty well

**B**B**B**D**B**B**B**D**B**B**B**
boys *****MEK*boys***boys***MEK* Boys

basic tactic buggies are in front boys behind with cover save like a kan wall, in the end the dreds attract alot odf attention as they are a huge threat with 4 dccw but 12 armor with riggers and plates is hard to stop with a 4+ save in the end buggies zip off turn of the waaagh hopefully after throwing some serious rokkit dmg then continue to try and open anythign left boyz line hits with dreds if dreds are both up gratz meet your mvp's

I think this list really speaks to the OP's original idea. I like it a lot, and I can see how this list would work well.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:

KingCracker wrote:

Alerian wrote:It looks like a typical Speed Freaks list, just with Looted wagons instead of Bikes

Agreed. Besides this is a FOOT build idea, not a SPEED FREAKS build. I already went down the trukk/BW spam road and I like the foot builds better

Sure I understand that, but you were talking about moving the buggies up faster, so why even have the KFF if they are not going to cover the buggies. I didn't metntiion BW's either. I guess I just don't understand what you want. But honestly you could maek them all Shootas and just make a mobile gun line with your buggies to cover those trukks and the KFF's to cover tyhe buggies. But hey its just an idea.

I guess it was my fault for not being more clear on that. I didnt mean, zip the buggies super fast ahead of everything. I meant, since they have a farther range of movement, the rest of the army wouldnt be stuck going as far as the kans run roll allows. They can move 12 inches and still fire, so you could move 6inches because you know the blobs will move that far, and factor in what youd guess the run to be. That way the only thing limiting movement would be whatever your run was.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Murrdox wrote:

G00fySmiley wrote:I already actually use this list at 1750

it is kind of a change of pace but works pretty well

**B**B**B**D**B**B**B**D**B**B**B**
boys *****MEK*boys***boys***MEK* Boys

basic tactic buggies are in front boys behind with cover save like a kan wall, in the end the dreds attract alot odf attention as they are a huge threat with 4 dccw but 12 armor with riggers and plates is hard to stop with a 4+ save in the end buggies zip off turn of the waaagh hopefully after throwing some serious rokkit dmg then continue to try and open anythign left boyz line hits with dreds if dreds are both up gratz meet your mvp's

I think this list really speaks to the OP's original idea. I like it a lot, and I can see how this list would work well.

Yea thats a pretty similar idea. But if you asked me for some ideas, Id start with pulling the Dreads out of the front line. They will be a fire magnet, specially tooled up with DCCWs. At least if you have them as more a "second wave" to the boyz they would have a better chance of not taking fire

This kind of list looks more like a gun line rather than a wall:

HQ- 2 Big Meks w/ KFF

Troop- 4 squads of 20 shoota boyz

2 rokkit-dreads

Elite- 3 squads of Lootas

Fast Attack- 9 rokkit buggies

'eavy Support- 9 kannons

You just loaded into the list about 22 Strength 8 shots, 9 of which have twin link and 9 that are also on BS 3. Couple that with Loota squads to shoot down light armor and powerklaws to deal with AV14, you just made a reasonably solid Ork list.

KingCracker wrote:

balsak_da_mighty wrote:

KingCracker wrote:

Alerian wrote:It looks like a typical Speed Freaks list, just with Looted wagons instead of Bikes

Agreed. Besides this is a FOOT build idea, not a SPEED FREAKS build. I already went down the trukk/BW spam road and I like the foot builds better

Sure I understand that, but you were talking about moving the buggies up faster, so why even have the KFF if they are not going to cover the buggies. I didn't metntiion BW's either. I guess I just don't understand what you want. But honestly you could maek them all Shootas and just make a mobile gun line with your buggies to cover those trukks and the KFF's to cover tyhe buggies. But hey its just an idea.

I guess it was my fault for not being more clear on that. I didnt mean, zip the buggies super fast ahead of everything. I meant, since they have a farther range of movement, the rest of the army wouldnt be stuck going as far as the kans run roll allows. They can move 12 inches and still fire, so you could move 6inches because you know the blobs will move that far, and factor in what youd guess the run to be. That way the only thing limiting movement would be whatever your run was.

Murrdox wrote:

G00fySmiley wrote:I already actually use this list at 1750

it is kind of a change of pace but works pretty well

**B**B**B**D**B**B**B**D**B**B**B**
boys *****MEK*boys***boys***MEK* Boys

basic tactic buggies are in front boys behind with cover save like a kan wall, in the end the dreds attract alot odf attention as they are a huge threat with 4 dccw but 12 armor with riggers and plates is hard to stop with a 4+ save in the end buggies zip off turn of the waaagh hopefully after throwing some serious rokkit dmg then continue to try and open anythign left boyz line hits with dreds if dreds are both up gratz meet your mvp's

I think this list really speaks to the OP's original idea. I like it a lot, and I can see how this list would work well.

Yea thats a pretty similar idea. But if you asked me for some ideas, Id start with pulling the Dreads out of the front line. They will be a fire magnet, specially tooled up with DCCWs. At least if you have them as more a "second wave" to the boyz they would have a better chance of not taking fire

KingCracker wrote:

balsak_da_mighty wrote:

KingCracker wrote:

Alerian wrote:It looks like a typical Speed Freaks list, just with Looted wagons instead of Bikes

Agreed. Besides this is a FOOT build idea, not a SPEED FREAKS build. I already went down the trukk/BW spam road and I like the foot builds better

Sure I understand that, but you were talking about moving the buggies up faster, so why even have the KFF if they are not going to cover the buggies. I didn't metntiion BW's either. I guess I just don't understand what you want. But honestly you could maek them all Shootas and just make a mobile gun line with your buggies to cover those trukks and the KFF's to cover tyhe buggies. But hey its just an idea.

I guess it was my fault for not being more clear on that. I didnt mean, zip the buggies super fast ahead of everything. I meant, since they have a farther range of movement, the rest of the army wouldnt be stuck going as far as the kans run roll allows. They can move 12 inches and still fire, so you could move 6inches because you know the blobs will move that far, and factor in what youd guess the run to be. That way the only thing limiting movement would be whatever your run was.

yes and no, having played it i usually go 10 inches with the buggies and fire that way if the big mek gets a 1 or 2 on the run roll you still get the 4+

[

Murrdox wrote:

G00fySmiley wrote:I already actually use this list at 1750

it is kind of a change of pace but works pretty well

**B**B**B**D**B**B**B**D**B**B**B**
boys *****MEK*boys***boys***MEK* Boys

basic tactic buggies are in front boys behind with cover save like a kan wall, in the end the dreds attract alot odf attention as they are a huge threat with 4 dccw but 12 armor with riggers and plates is hard to stop with a 4+ save in the end buggies zip off turn of the waaagh hopefully after throwing some serious rokkit dmg then continue to try and open anythign left boyz line hits with dreds if dreds are both up gratz meet your mvp's

I think this list really speaks to the OP's original idea. I like it a lot, and I can see how this list would work well.

Yea thats a pretty similar idea. But if you asked me for some ideas, Id start with pulling the Dreads out of the front line. They will be a fire magnet, specially tooled up with DCCWs. At least if you have them as more a "second wave" to the boyz they would have a better chance of not taking fire

Could use those HS slots for Flash Gitz. Give you some good anti-armour there.

Anvildude wrote:Could use those HS slots for Flash Gitz. Give you some good anti-armour there.

Anti Armor? Well maybe anti MEQ 50% of the time but they are laughable against tanks (and laughable in general)

I don't think I would ever run Goofey's list; however, the sheer ammount of dakka it puts out is quite impressive.

Buggies and Kannons and Lootas, oh my!

If playing a small game, or a big game they might be better. In a small game they are, well cheaper and you can take both in a big game.

And, with Blastas, anti-tank of AV, well, 10, with AP1 1/3 of the time. With Blastas, they actually get AP3 half the time, which, if nothing else, is a pretty nice psychological advantage against the Marine player, especially since they wound on 2's or 3's, depending if you got Shootier or not.

FlashGits as anti armor? FlashGits with Blastas? Im going out on a limb and guessing youve never actually used them in that manner? I use the Gits often enough, and I can tell ya, you learn real quick that they are terrible taking out transports, anything tougher forget it, and blastas just kill your pricey nobz. Go more dakka/shootier/painboy and thats it. assault2 str6 and they have FNP. Also their rolls are more for anti MEQ as mentioned. You get a good AP roll and your laughing all the way to the body pile.

I like the Blasta myself. I'd rather take that than Shootier. Remember, they can take their 4+ armour save, and with a painboy, they get the 4+ FnP too, plus it's not InstaDeath.

I suppose, yeah, they're not great anti-armour. I keep thinking they're Str. with Shootier for some reason.

But yeah, they're great against Meq, even against Termies.

Yea but against termies, I think a mob of 30 shoota boyz is much cheaper option

But they don't have the sheer psychological impact. The thing about Gitz is that they're Unpredictable. You don't know if this turn they're going to be able to murder your termies or beakies or not, so you hesitate, second guess yourself about whether or not you want to let them get in range. Do you focus fire on them, the unit that might be dangerous? Or do you concentrate on those 30 boyz sitting pretty to assault your objective? Do you focus your Long Fang missiles on the 6 nobz with fancy guns, or the 3 battlewagons full of scoring units?

Anvildude wrote:But they don't have the sheer psychological impact.

I do not know many players that are fearless in the face of a horde of ork boyz

I do know though many players that will easily brush off gitz. I am seriously thinking you're overestimating what you basically called nobz with fancy guns. I mean comparing 6 gitz to 3 battle wagons filled with more ork boyz? Its almost no contest

And then the next turn those Gitz shred your Assault Terminators with sudden AP2 gunfire.

That's the thing, though, is that Gitz aren't exactly something that you necessarily can brush off. 30 boyz might always have the same threat level, but Gitz may or may not be dangerous turn to turn, meaning that the opponent can't just say "Oh, I'll just stay out of assault range- they probably won't be able to do anything next turn," like they could with Boyz; "Oh, I'll just throw some templates at them. They don't have power weapons, so they're not that dangerous, except that Nob."

I do see what you're saying, though, that Boyz are scary- it's just that Gitz, though not always scary, are something that can't be planned for, like Zzap guns and SAGs.

I love Gitz, but I have been using Nobs w T-L Shootas. And I almost love them more..just as shooty but they don't have all the special rules. They are pretty fun to use and can still get BP's or some PK's in there if I need to.

Hmm... Weaker, though. But I see your point.

See, this is why Snazzguns should have been an upgrade to the Nobz entry- Meganobz is understandable that they separated it, from a balance perspective (keep them from getting a Painboy) but the Gitz, aside from their asinine decision to make them Heavy Support, are almost exactly like Nobz.

I wont lie, Ive tried the TL shoota nobz a couple times. Pretty underwhelming. The STR is alot less, and its those special rules that give Gitz their umph. Nobz are CC plain and simple, shoota boyz/lootas/Gitz are meant for shooting things.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Anvildude wrote:Hmm... Weaker, though. But I see your point.

See, this is why Snazzguns should have been an upgrade to the Nobz entry- Meganobz is understandable that they separated it, from a balance perspective (keep them from getting a Painboy) but the Gitz, aside from their asinine decision to make them Heavy Support, are almost exactly like Nobz.

I agree with everything on here, but the mega nobz. I personally thing that MegaNobz AND Gitz should of been part of the Nob section. Why? Because they are all fething nobz! thats why. Yes it would of taken a whole page, but Im pretty confident people would be able to read and nuder stand, specially if they split that page into the section. You can take X amount of nobz for XXX points, for +XXXpoints they are meganobz, and theres the meganobz section. For XXX points they are upgraded to FlashGitz, and heres the FlashGitz section.

The main problem I have with taking Gitz, is they compete for Heavy Support....when they obviously are not heavy support. I like them and all, but when I have to choose between them, or taking a couple boomgun wagons, they usually lose out, because a tag team of Boomgun wagons is nasty