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Who is the best wizard in the game, in terms of sheer phase dominating power,
Personally I like Settra, he may not be a good wizard, but he is extremely hard to kill, especially you get the spell that gives you an extra attack, he gets 6 attacks and the 4 horses that pull his chariot get 2 attacks each,

Or for magic power, Arkhan the liche king, he is a lvl 5 wizard, who is good in combat and every kill he gets brings one warrior in his unit back to life, and can use dispel dice from his opponents last turn as power dice, and when he is killed, he causes D6 strength 5 hits on his enemy. so he is damn good

I'm sorry, is this other than Teclis?!

Does it have to be named characters or can a generic wizard build qualify?

I did mean named ones, sorry if this was not clear

Ok, can't recall anybody more powerful than Teclis at the moment.

I would however like to mention slugtounge. He's really far from being close to powerful (lvl 2), but he has one nasty trick up his sleeve. After deployment any enemy unit within 36" risks taking d3 or d6 wounds with no AS. This is great against elite armies, lone characters and in smaller games.

Technically, Archaon wins. Although the fact that he is a wizard is more of an aside ability than the reason why people take him.

Or Kairos. He is a massive douche in the Magic Phase.

Still, a lvl 5 wizard that can fight on par with most hero class characters, and when he is killed, can kill the person that killed him , that is pretty good

DukeBadham wrote:Still, a lvl 5 wizard that can fight on par with most hero class characters, and when he is killed, can kill the person that killed him , that is pretty good

And his only form of protection is a +6 regen.... "Not the face!" comes to mind.

And his revenge is only d6 S5 hits that allow saves as normal.

Whats telicis protection. plus D6 S5 is not that bad

DukeBadham wrote:Whats telicis protection. plus D6 S5 is not that bad

Sitting in the second rank of a unit of Pheonix Guard who have a +4 ward and an immunity to magic?

Other units aside, I did not mention Teclis because he has no protection. I mentioned Archaon(who has a +1/++3 save and can't be wounded on better than +3) and Kairos(who has a ++3 save and can fly).

D6 S5 is bad if you intend to kill anything other than a couple Rank and File guys. On average, it'll do 2, maybe 3 wounds tops, and they you get your saves as normal.

Good point, but if you declare a challenge and die, the one person takes the hits


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OK lets drop this argument now


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The fey enchantress is good

I personally like Vilitch. He's got a 4+ armor/6+ ward and vessel of chaos is just amazing. Coupling him with a 2nd lvl 2 sorcerer (shadow preferably, though death can be good if your willing to risk him) with Infernal Puppet, 6+ ward and Third eye creates a powerful combination that's available in a 2500 list. Meanwhile, Archaon sits on the shelf unless you find someone interested in a 2750+ game (which I'm dieing to find... I always find large battles more amusing then small skirmishes).

Khairos is pretty hard to argue against.

Arkhan has 5 spells? OOH. Khairos has FOURTEEN. Go back to magic school, biatch.

But on to protection, Khairos is M8, T5, W5 with a 3 ward save, the ability reroll any single die once a turn (including that ward, or a die causing miscast), +2 casting (on top of his magic level), and he can never be wounded on better than a 3+. And he can fly. And instead of rolling for spells, he gets to choose them. And when he poops, it rains magic. Seriously.

Teclis is about the only one who can remotely come close IMHO. And he's more of a 1 trick pony. Although a very good trick.

Khairos is really hard to kill and he likely has spells for whatever army he is facing, so you can't blindside him.

He's got 2 heads, chicken feathers, and he can see the goddamn future.

Arkhan is just as good as any old level 4 wizard with the +1 to cast and dispell staff. Not exactly impressive, all armies with lord level wizards can do that.

Who is the best wizard in the game, in terms of sheer phase dominating power

In sheer magic phase dominance its definately Teclis. When the army is setup, they get 2d3 bonus power dice per phase. Teclis also gets d3 bonus dispel dice, has a super dispel scroll, has the added +1 to dispel for being a High Elf. Then he gets IF with any doubles, and ignores his first miscast each turn. No one character can dominate the magic phase like he can.

Now as far as how the thread has gone, ya, Teclis wouldn't last 1 second with Archaeon. Teclis has no protection whatsoever outside of the Banner of the World Dragon.

Kairos is probably the best survivable caster who can dominate a phase. The number of spells he brings to the table gives you so much versatility, and he isn't made of glass like Teclis is.

I'm surprised by the lack of love for a 4 disc Slann. With Rumination, Cogitation, Consciousness, and Mystery, you can really have a Slann that is both difficult to kill, and deadly in the magic phase. Cogitation can really help stop IF on the spells that can really hurt, meanwhile he has a 4+ ward, 5 wounds, immune to non magic weapons, and gets a bunch of bonus dice in the magic phase. Toss in a cupped hands on top of it, and he can toss 6 dice at any spell with no fear.

DukeBadham wrote:Whats telicis protection. plus D6 S5 is not that bad

Teclis protection is removing the enitre enemy army....

Lehnsherr wrote:I'm surprised by the lack of love for a 4 disc Slann.

Slann are certainly nice but he said named guys. So that's Kroak or Mazdamundi. Maz is pretty solid but he's nowhere near the top top. And Kroak really should be a lot better.

ph34r wrote:Arkhan is just as good as any old level 4 wizard with the +1 to cast and dispell staff. Not exactly impressive, all armies with lord level wizards can do that.

Arkhan gets 5 spells, and he gets +5 to cast and dispel, can convert Dispel dice into power dice, and bring back warriors in his unit thanks to his sword. so better then any old level 4 wizard

@ DukeBadham
Do you mean which Wizard is the most powerful in a 1 on 1 battle? Or do you mean which Wizard is the most powerful in an actual game where other units play a role? I am going to assume you mean the latter (most powerful wizard in an actual game) in my answer.

This is really only between 3 Wizards in my opinion: Teclis, Kairos Fateweaver and a customized Slann Mage-Priest (I know, he isn't a Special Character). My favorite Slann Mage-Priest configuration is:
Slann Mage-Priest; BSB, Focus of Mystery (Lore of Shadow), The Focused Rumination, Higher State of Consciousness, The Becalming Cogitation, Crown of Command, Cupped Hands of the Old Ones, Standard of Discipline.

As for pure Magic Phase domination, I think everyone can agree that Teclis is the best offensively (while casting). Kairos Fateweaver has him beat in the offensive versatility (more spells), but Teclis has more Power Dice, casts IF on any double and ignores his first miscast every turn (unlike Kairos, who can only ignore his miscast by changing his roll to a non-IF). The Slann Mage-Priest probably has as many Power Dice as Teclis (The Focused Rumination), but only has 1 miscast protection per game (Cupped Hands of the Old Ones) and only casts with IF on double 6s. Comparing the Slann Mage-Priest and Kairos, Kairos has more versatility and better protection against miscasts, while the Slann Mage-Priest has The Focused Rumination. In my opinion, the order of power in the offensive Magic Phase is: 1) Teclis, 2) Kairos Fateweaver, 3) Slann Mage-Priest.

As for the defensive Magic Phase, I think the Slann Mage Priest and Teclis are pretty equal here, though Teclis may have a slight edge. The Slann Mage-Priest has The Becalming Cogitation (no 6s for a wizard within 24"), but Teclis has +D3 DD, +1 to dispel and the Scroll. Kairos is definately the weakest of the three in the defensive Magic Phase. Order of power in the defensive Magic Phase: 1) Teclis, 2) Slann Mage-Priest, 3) Kairos Fateweaver.

As for survivability, I think it is pretty obvious that the Slann Mage-Priest build mentioned above is the most survivable of these 3 Wizards (can only be hurt by magical attacks, has a 4+ Ward Save, can join units, can switch positions with Scar-Veterans to avoid confrontations with Magical Weapons). Kairos Fateweaver probably comes in second (flying to avoid combat, 3+ ward save) due to not being able to join units (otherwise his survivability would have been about equal to that of the Slann Mage-Priest). Teclis is obviously the least survivable of the three (T2, W3, no saves). However, he can join units, which can make it hard to get to him (especially if a unit is set up to have Teclis in the second rank).

Additional considerations: The Slann Mage-Priest is both the General and the BSB. Couple this with his mobility (due to Lore of Shadow) and he is great at keeping the army together. Additionally, the Slann Mage-Priest can tie up a unit without magical attacks (Stubborn, Ld10, Cold-Blooded and BSB means he will almost never break) which is a very useful ability. Teclis and Kairos will also be the General (depending on game size). Teclis has Ld10, while Kairos has Ld9 (but to be fair, Daemons don't really need it that much). Kairos costs the most points of the three, followed by the Slann Mage-Priest and Teclis.

Taking all these points into consideration, it is my opinion that Teclis is the best Wizard of these 3, followed by the Slann Mage-Priest and Kairos Fateweaver finishing third.

Fateweaver

Easily Teclis, no question.

Sure, his T2 is a liability, but when you consider that the entire HE army is built around protecting him then it doesn't matter as much. His casting is easily more powerful and he's just a massive pain the in ass to deal with.

After further review I think it depends on playstyle. I use fateweaver not for the big killy spells outside of final transmutation(36" range take that slann defenses) but I use him to cast the big radius buffs and hexes. Soul blight, pha's, speed of light, birona's ect. and enfebling foe (my lvl2 herald is life) He gets solid direct damage spells from tzeentch. being a 6+ to cast meaning you can get a few spells off per phase. and poop more powerdice by using boon.

Teclis is the most powerful wizard for his cost.

if he were costed properly, or his items got toned down alot, that distinction would probably go to Kairos.

Also want to point out that if done right, Khairos can cast a LOT of spells. If you start with, say, casting Death magic, you can keep adding power dice. Wizards can't recast the same spells, but Khairos has 10 out at any one given time.

Kairos. Without a doubt. Teclis is close, but Kairos is just massive.

DukeRustfield wrote:Also want to point out that if done right, Khairos can cast a LOT of spells. If you start with, say, casting Death magic, you can keep adding power dice. Wizards can't recast the same spells, but Khairos has 10 out at any one given time.

In that vein, Mannfred is powerful as well. All of Death and Vamp lores combined with Master of the Black Arts, his sword, and up to two Vamp arcane items means he will generally start with a minimum of +3 PD, can start with more, and can add PD during the phase. On top of that, nearly half the Vamp spells can be recast and don't require many PD in the first place. Plus, he's strong in combat. His saves are low (only Heavy Armour plus optional mount), but he does have 5 wounds and can heal himself.

His biggest problems I think are the lack of a ward save and no defense against miscasts.

Against certain armies... Balthasar Gelt is an intriguing option. He can fly (thus is hard to pin down), has a 3++ ward save and lore master for Lore of Metal. Any army with heavy cavalry is toast!

EDIT - Lore of Metal used to be my favourite lore, but then they ruined it with Clockwork Hounds, a spell that makes no sense. How does being encased in armour make it easier to be killed by a ticking dog?

I've never found Gelt to be particularly powerful T tests or I tests do the trick or better yeat some good old shooting, even with his save enough shooting will bring him down whereas Teclis in a unit of white lions you'd be all day trying to blow away

Against me, Gelt will have a hard time... choosing who to kill first, out of my all heavy cavalry army :(

1. Teclis.
2. Kairos.
3. Uberslaan.

Teclis. Without a doubt. There is not contest.