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As the topic says, I'm new to wargaming and looking in to Flames of War as my jumping-off point. I've seen other threads asking about stuff like general mechanics and going over starter army setups, but I've got a few questions of my own to ask and rather than hijack someone else's thread I figured I'd make my own.

As my first purchase I bought the "Open Fire!" starter pack which I figure was a good move, seeing as it's a starter pack and all. I also tossed in a German grenadier company HQ just for good measure. I just made that purchase yesterday directly from the BF online store, since I don't have a local shop, and as such haven't gotten to look over any rules or anything as of yet. But that's how I decided to start things off. Being new to wargaming, but having actually looked into it before(40k specifically), I know some generalities of play but am pretty much oblivious to a lot of the lingo and any real specifics. By generalities I mean that I know that people build armies of a certain size, which is determined by a number of points agreed upon at the start, they set up initial positions, and then they have a turn based battle until some certain objective is met. I also know that different units cost different amounts of points and that different armies can have vastly different rules. What I don't know is how point values for different units are determined, how the actual game is played, or even how one goes about building an army that they can actually use in play.

Anyways, on to the questions!

1. How do you know what the specific point value of a piece is? Is there some kind of master index of every piece made? And how do you deal with variations like additional non-standard weapons that a piece might have?

2. Is it possible to mix and match forces from different armies so long as they fall under the same general umbrella? E.g. mixing Fallschirmjager troops in with standard Heer troops or building a true Commonwealth army(mixing UK, Aus., Can. troops together).

3. What is a good point limit for a beginner to aim for in order to have a decent battle that incorporates as much of the game as possible without being too expensive? I understand that 1500 points seems to be about an average game for established players, but seeing as how I'm going to probably end up being the person who gets a group going in my area I'm going to need to build at least 2 armies that can go up against each other and showcase what this game has to offer. I'd prefer to go with official BF models because I'll at least know what I'm getting from pictures, but if need be I'll buy from some other company so long as things end up remaining consistent and of decent quality.

4. While this is probably going to be a question that's really personal preference more than anything, I'll ask it anyways. How much of a stickler for model accuracy is this game? I remember watching a few guys play 40k one time and someone started throwing a fit because a model was being used for something other than what the model was of. I'd really like to be able to buy, say, one StuG III and use it as any version of the StuG III from A to G if I want to shift from say, mid-war to early war play, regardless of the fact that my model might be an obvious StuG III G with schurzen and a KwK 40/L48.

5. What are the rulebooks like? Is there a single rulebook that covers all eras of play and all the various armies, or are there rulebooks for each individual army, individual eras, and/or individual armies based on individual eras? I'm hoping it's a single rulebook, to be honest, but I can deal with era-based rulebooks. I just don't want to run into a wall of army-based rulebooks that end up like the horror stories of imbalance and out of sync updates that come from GW and their games. That's what kept me away from wargaming for all these years.

6. How important is having a terrain board and painted models? Is it possible to get away with scribbling some terrain on a few sheets of copy paper and just spray painting a base coat on models? I don't really want to sink $80 into paints right from the start, even though I know that painting is part of the appeal of wargaming. Terrain is another thing that I don't want to have to dump a lot of money on just yet, because I don't know how things are going to pan out for actually finding a group to play with.

If someone, or multiple someones, can answer these questions I'd greatly appreciate it. I'm already about $60 into the game based on what I just ordered and I don't want to go jumping headlong into what I think is the deep end only to bust my skull on the concrete of the shallow end and drown because I didn't look before the leap.

1. For each period (early 39-41, mid 42-43, late 44-45), there are several books covering certain theatres or operations. These give you many different lists for the different countries, including points cost of units, upgrades etc.

2. To a degree. Fallschirmjäger can often use heer support and vice versa, and you can often mix one commonwealth country with standard british troops. Remember that the game is at company level, so a mix-match of different countries at that level wasn't common

3. 600pts is "accepted" minimum standard battle, but IMO, it is too small, and you don't really get a good feel for the game. 1200 is a good aiming-point, and 1000 is IMO minimum for a "real" game

4. Varies a lot, you get people with different opinions in all settings, FoW is no exception. IMO, what you are proposing is okay for a while, but it is just as much proxy as using a PzIII as a PzIV IMO, StuG A is a totally different tank from StuG G.

5. Single rulebook for main game rules, lots of different books for lists for the different periods. The balance is very good between armies, especially compared to GW, there is no broken army in FoW, and when they actually made one that dominated the tourney circuit, it was fixed after a lot of customer feedback

6. Terrain plays a big part of the game, and having lots of nice and functional terrain will make it an much better and entertaining game. When you are starting out, the following may help for some easy terrain: felt cloths as woods, cut up door-mat as fields, styrofoam for hills. Low cost, easy to make, and will work later on too. Painted miniatures also add to the experience, but of course, get some games in while they are just undercoated too.

As an aside, alternate miniature producers is one of the greatest benefits of 15mm gaming. Check out plastic solider company for cheap plastic! ww2 miniatures. Their range is limited, but evolving. Zvezda is another producer of cheap, plastic 15mm WW2, forged in battle has great quality and competitive prices etc. There are tons of manufacturers out there that will make your WW2 gaming much cheaper. Battlefront is great for weird units, company boxes and for easy infantry. Their quality is not really superior to most of their competitors, so you pay for convenience.

Unruly your next purchase really needs to be one of the campaign books, they help you build your army.

I'm new to the game as well, my mates are I are playing a market garden campaign. I went with a British force so ended up buying the Hell's Highway book, which gives lists for British and German forces used at the time.

Do you have a group of mates who already play FOW? If you it might be an idea to sort out a rough idea of where your games are going to be based. e.g. North Africa, Normandy, Italy, Eastern Front etc etc.

I really like the FOW rules, Assaults are absolutely brutal and the rules for area cover are IMO much better than 40k.

Hope you enjoy your new purchase.

Unruly wrote:
As my first purchase I bought the "Open Fire!" starter pack which I figure was a good move, seeing as it's a starter pack and all. I also tossed in a German grenadier company HQ just for good measure. I just made that purchase yesterday directly from the BF online store, since I don't have a local shop, and as such haven't gotten to look over any rules or anything as of yet. But that's how I decided to start things off. Being new to wargaming, but having actually looked into it before(40k specifically), I know some generalities of play but am pretty much oblivious to a lot of the lingo and any real specifics. By generalities I mean that I know that people build armies of a certain size, which is determined by a number of points agreed upon at the start, they set up initial positions, and then they have a turn based battle until some certain objective is met. I also know that different units cost different amounts of points and that different armies can have vastly different rules. What I don't know is how point values for different units are determined, how the actual game is played, or even how one goes about building an army that they can actually use in play.

Open Fire is supposed to be a good start and has the full rulebook minus some scenario-specific fortification rules which you probably won't need for quite a while. Your best bet might be to look at getting one of the major army-list books from ane ra you're interested in.

Unruly wrote:
1. How do you know what the specific point value of a piece is? Is there some kind of master index of every piece made? And how do you deal with variations like additional non-standard weapons that a piece might have?

See the various campaign books. The FoW website also has some PDF format Briefings. These tend to be 'under development' but can give you an idea of how things go. If you haven't noticed this from other sources, FoW is split into three eras (four if you count the Vietnam rules, but that's a sort of side-game) for Early, Mid, and Late war. In general, you can't compare point values between eras, but you can play armies from the same era even if they were assigned to different theatres (like UK from North Afrika fighting Germans built for the Eastern Front).

There's a couple nice hardbound compilations that are a great value to let you see a lot of army lists.

Unruly wrote:
2. Is it possible to mix and match forces from different armies so long as they fall under the same general umbrella? E.g. mixing Fallschirmjager troops in with standard Heer troops or building a true Commonwealth army(mixing UK, Aus., Can. troops together).

In general, no. However, some lists may allow a bit of this. For example, I think the British list in Fortress Europe has options to play as various Commonwealth forces, and British units may b3e selected to 'fill gaps' (I.E. if a historical unit didn't have armor, they might get British armor as that would logically have been available to them).

The army lsits look like a big TOE (Table of Organization and Equipment, I think) or org chart. You generally must pick a Command platoon and 2 platoons appropriate to the type of force your building (Armor, need two platoons of tanks. Infantry, two platoons of troops, etc.) and are then given a list of options such as add-on armor, etc.

Unruly wrote:
3. What is a good point limit for a beginner to aim for in order to have a decent battle that incorporates as much of the game as possible without being too expensive? I understand that 1500 points seems to be about an average game for established players, but seeing as how I'm going to probably end up being the person who gets a group going in my area I'm going to need to build at least 2 armies that can go up against each other and showcase what this game has to offer. I'd prefer to go with official BF models because I'll at least know what I'm getting from pictures, but if need be I'll buy from some other company so long as things end up remaining consistent and of decent quality.

I've fiddled with lists and 1,000 would be a good, if tight, starting spot. That's limited, but you can get most armies basic troops and maybe one or two 'fun' squads as add-ons in msot cases.

Unruly wrote:
4. While this is probably going to be a question that's really personal preference more than anything, I'll ask it anyways. How much of a stickler for model accuracy is this game? I remember watching a few guys play 40k one time and someone started throwing a fit because a model was being used for something other than what the model was of. I'd really like to be able to buy, say, one StuG III and use it as any version of the StuG III from A to G if I want to shift from say, mid-war to early war play, regardless of the fact that my model might be an obvious StuG III G with schurzen and a KwK 40/L48.

Unruly wrote:
5. What are the rulebooks like? Is there a single rulebook that covers all eras of play and all the various armies, or are there rulebooks for each individual army, individual eras, and/or individual armies based on individual eras? I'm hoping it's a single rulebook, to be honest, but I can deal with era-based rulebooks. I just don't want to run into a wall of army-based rulebooks that end up like the horror stories of imbalance and out of sync updates that come from GW and their games. That's what kept me away from wargaming for all these years.

The main rulebook (included in Open Fire) then books for various theatres in various eras. The plan seems to be to do a handful of campaign-specific books which may be combined into a single book for a big chunk of an era.

Battlefront has a pretty good reputation. There was a recent kerfluffle about the British Armored Regiment, but they dealt with it, I hear.

Unruly wrote:
6. How important is having a terrain board and painted models? Is it possible to get away with scribbling some terrain on a few sheets of copy paper and just spray painting a base coat on models? I don't really want to sink $80 into paints right from the start, even though I know that painting is part of the appeal of wargaming. Terrain is another thing that I don't want to have to dump a lot of money on just yet, because I don't know how things are going to pan out for actually finding a group to play with.

Don't worry about a terrain board unless you're hosting games at home.

A lot of people would be fine with unpainted models, especially from a beginner.

Illumini wrote:1. For each period (early 39-41, mid 42-43, late 44-45), there are several books covering certain theatres or operations. These give you many different lists for the different countries, including points cost of units, upgrades etc.

5. Single rulebook for main game rules, lots of different books for lists for the different periods. The balance is very good between armies, especially compared to GW, there is no broken army in FoW, and when they actually made one that dominated the tourney circuit, it was fixed after a lot of customer feedback

I saw people talking a lot about these campaign books in some of the threads I was looking over, and I wondered what their deal was. I figured they were supplemental rulebooks that introduced new stuff, like modified rules for playing as a specific historical division or a specific historic battle. I guess I was at least partially right in that regard, but if it means that I'm going to absolutely need these books as well as the core rulebook in order to play the game then I might start rethinking this. I have nothing against supplements, my D&D library is proof of that, but if having a battle in North Africa involves drastically different rules than a battle in Eastern Europe of the same era and requires a completely different book to outline it then, to me, something is wrong with the game. A few rules getting modified here and there is fine, but I just don't want to see anything really drastic unless I'm switching between eras. A Panzer III should perform pretty much the same in Africa as it would in Europe if I'm staying in the mid-war era.

As for the army lists, am I going to be constrained to basically just using the lists provided by BF in the books, or am I going to be able to build armies entirely from scratch? I've seen a lot of people talking about specific historic units and building lists based on them and very little custom building, so I've gotten a bit worried that this game doesn't really support people who like to just mess around with their armies by throwing them at the wall to see what sticks. I understand that there are always going to be ways of doing things that are better than others, but sometimes I won't care about that and will just want to have fun with it.

3. 600pts is "accepted" minimum standard battle, but IMO, it is too small, and you don't really get a good feel for the game. 1200 is a good aiming-point, and 1000 is IMO minimum for a "real" game.

I figured as much. From the way I was seeing most people talk about 1500 point battles I figured that they would be the point where you started to see everything the game has to offer in one go. About how much, on average, will a 1000-1500 point mid-war army cost if I'm trying to build it to be say, a mechanized infantry company? Nothing fancy like hero units or anything, just general troops. And please give what currency you're using so I can convert and compare because I know this forum is international.

4. Varies a lot, you get people with different opinions in all settings, FoW is no exception. IMO, what you are proposing is okay for a while, but it is just as much proxy as using a PzIII as a PzIV IMO, StuG A is a totally different tank from StuG G.

I figured as much on this one as well. My reason for asking was that I'm not made of money and I want to be able to build a mid-war army first and foremost, but have the ability to use as many of my already purchased pieces for early or late-war as I can. Being able to call a StuG G a StuG A helps with that a lot though.

6. Terrain plays a big part of the game, and having lots of nice and functional terrain will make it an much better and entertaining game. When you are starting out, the following may help for some easy terrain: felt cloths as woods, cut up door-mat as fields, styrofoam for hills. Low cost, easy to make, and will work later on too. Painted miniatures also add to the experience, but of course, get some games in while they are just undercoated too.

What kind of materials would I need to use as a backer for terrain? I've seen a lot of good looking stuff over the years that I've contemplated getting into wargaming, and one of my questions is almost always "What the hell is it built on?" because they usually only show it from above or at angles that don't show the base material. I figure that poster board is too flimsy for detailed terrain, but corrugated cardboard would probably work if I could find decently sized sections, right? Plywood, or at the very least particle board/chipboard, would probably be the best though, wouldn't it?

As an aside, alternate miniature producers is one of the greatest benefits of 15mm gaming. Check out plastic solider company for cheap plastic! ww2 miniatures. Their range is limited, but evolving. Zvezda is another producer of cheap, plastic 15mm WW2, forged in battle has great quality and competitive prices etc. There are tons of manufacturers out there that will make your WW2 gaming much cheaper. Battlefront is great for weird units, company boxes and for easy infantry. Their quality is not really superior to most of their competitors, so you pay for convenience.

Well, the only place I know of, being new to the scene and all, that sells other 15mm minis and is US-based is www.thewarstore.com. They have stuff from Plastic Soldier Company, and another one called Resistant Roosters, but they don't show many actual pictures of the things. They'll show pictures of boxes, or really small pictures, but that's it. The PSC listings at least tell you how many figures you're getting, which is more than can be said for Resistant Roosters, but their selection is really limited right now too. And it's not just because half their stuff is out of stock, but because apparently they don't make all that many different models. But that might just be an issue with The War Store. If you or anyone else knows of other US-based(I don't want to spend a fortune on shipping from across the pond) online retailers that are reputable I'd be more than happy to take a look. As for Zvezda it seems like their offerings are 1/72 scale which is 20mm, correct? Their vehicles are 1/100, which I think is 15mm, so they would probably work, but they only seem to offer German and Russian vehicles. Though, again, that might just be an issue with The War Store.

Hangfire wrote:Do you have a group of mates who already play FOW?

No, I don't know anyone that plays FoW. I don't even really have a local game shop. The closest one to me is about a 45 minute drive away and it's run by people that I don't like for personal reasons. And they're mostly a WHFB/40k store anyways. If I want to be entirely honest with myself, this is probably going to end up being an expensive hobby that goes nowhere other than a display shelf. I work a midnight shift that keeps me from really hanging out with the guys I used to play Magic The Gathering and D&D with, and they would most likely be the people who would pick this up and play with me. I'm probably only going to be playing once or twice every couple of months when my step-brother comes to spend a weekend at my place.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Balance wrote:
Open Fire is supposed to be a good start and has the full rulebook minus some scenario-specific fortification rules which you probably won't need for quite a while. Your best bet might be to look at getting one of the major army-list books from ane ra you're interested in.

The main rulebook (included in Open Fire) then books for various theatres in various eras. The plan seems to be to do a handful of campaign-specific books which may be combined into a single book for a big chunk of an era.

Battlefront has a pretty good reputation. There was a recent kerfluffle about the British Armored Regiment, but they dealt with it, I hear.

So, in other words I'm looking at an average of 3 major rulebooks per era? Western Europe, Eastern Europe, and Africa/Mediterranean in generalities, along with stuff that's more like a pre-manufactured campaign for specific major battles like Market Garden, Overlord, and Citadel?

Balance wrote:
Don't worry about a terrain board unless you're hosting games at home.

Well, I'm currently the only person I know of that is even looking into playing FoW, so I would probably be hosting. Wargaming, as far as I know, isn't very popular around where I live. When I was in high school and college the scene was dominated by D&D, MtG, and the White Wolf LARP stuff(World of Darkness). We had a game store back when I was in high school that hosted WHFB/40k games and sold pretty much everything for them, but not much else. They closed down and we were left without a game store until just last year when a new one opened up, but I won't shop there because I don't like the owners. That, and it's not exactly local, being 45 minutes away and all. Maybe the scene has changed since then, but I've not seen much sign of wargaming being on the rise unless it's in the form of out-of-state college kids that are starting school here.

With the details you mention, I'd say give the Open Fire stuff a try to see if you like the basic mechanics. It's a bunch of Shermans and Stugs, right? It'll give you a rough overview of how tanks work.

Next step would be to get a campaign book. I'd suggest either North Africa or Fortress Europe, but there's others that may work. These cover Mid and Late War, so the tanks you've got can be moved between them as needed. Then you can decide what you want to build for both armies and terrain. You might think the desert war stuff is cool, and want to pick up some cheap terrain (JR Minis makes some cheap and easy terrain kits for the desert, as does Battlefront) as a sand-colored cloth can make a desert board quickly.

On the other hand if you want to do city fights your terrain costs might go up a bit.

And for both this can guide and advise miniatures purchases to add. The Shermans, for example, could be used by at least US, UK, and Soviets. So you could conceivably paint them to go with a large number of different infantry.

Balance wrote:And for both this can guide and advise miniatures purchases to add. The Shermans, for example, could be used by at least US, UK, and Soviets. So you could conceivably paint them to go with a large number of different infantry.

I didn't think that many Shermans got sent over to the Soviets on lend-lease, but then Wikipedia proved me wrong by saying they got almost 20% of the total lend-lease Shermans. I was having a hard enough time debating between Commonwealth and US forces based on the Shermans, but now I've got the Soviets to add in there too. But oh well. I'm leaning towards going for North Africa anyways, since it's one of the most under-represented campaigns of WWII these days, so that's going to cut me back down to Commonwealth and US forces again unless I suddenly have a massive change of heart and decide to go for some Barbarossa/Citadel action.

I figure that Soviet v German battles are more interesting for tanks, while the rest of the Allied powers are more interesting for general combined arms since they didn't have that armored arms race on the Western front.

Hooray! Another new player. It's nice seeing the Historicals subforum being so active.

OK, first - I'd recommend you head over to Easy Army. It's an internet based list-building site that's semi-promoted and aided by Battlefront itself. While some books are free, you'll have to pay $1 for the rest (and $2 for the North Africa book). Still, it's better than $30-$45 - I've picked up all of the books for under $10.

Briefing Books - a battle in North Africa plays exactly the same as in Eastern Europe. What changes, however, is the technology, trainings and dispositions of the soldiers, and the availability of resources. A Panzer III is a Panzer III is a Panzer III, but depending on what theater and era you're looking at it may cost a different amount of points and have a different Morale and Training rating. So a mid-war Panzerkompanie in the desert requires a different book that a mid-war Panzerkompanie on the eastern front.

List Building - you're constrained to what is in the lists, but the army building is pretty liberal. As a minimum, you have to take an HQ and 2 Combat platoons. After that, you pick and choose whatever combination of weapons platoons and divisional support you want. While a combined arms approach will always work best in this game, if you want to play a list with 30+ T-34s, or 5-6 Tigers, go right ahead!

Army Costs - Just to let you know, Mechanized infantry companies tend to cost the most money, since you have to purchase both infantry and their transports. Another thing to note is that there aren't really any 'Hero' models that cost a ridiculous amount more than other models (like some other game companies).

My advice would be to pick 2 armored companies from whatever era you're looking at, 1 Allies, and 1 Axis. Since tanks are expensive in points, especially German tanks, they tend to be smaller. My usual 1000 pt list will look something like:

HQ
2 Combat Platoons
Infantry Platoon
Man-packed AT gun platoon
Artillery of some sort

With a Tank Company, you can usually drop the AT guns (since they're mounted on your tanks).

Terrain - I've actually built some terrain (something I never did while playing 40k) and what I find works best is a piece of corrugated cardboard, cut to ehatever size you want, with tape around the edges. Spry paint it black, hit it with some watered-down brown paint, and flock it. Then put whatever terrain you want on it. I've done this to make forests and house lots.

Terrain is very important to FoW. Don't do a '40k' terrain job, where you just toss 6-7 pieces of terrain on the table. I usually try to set up a 'map' by making it look realistic. Perhaps a town on one side, with a road leading into it through some forests, and hills beyond that? I usually place rivers/forests first, then hills, and then man-made structures - houses and fields. It give the playing area a really nice 'organic' feel to it.

I should probably mention that my group currently plays in Late War, western front. Mostly Normandy. It's a great way to get people into the game, since it's what most non-historians see as 'World War II'. I'd really like to get into Mid-War, however, and play in the desert.

There's actually a few German lists that can field captured tanks, I believe... pretty much everyone in WWII was at least thinking about using captured equipment!

The North Africa book (make sure it's the current one... Titled 'North Afrika' I believe) is a pretty good read and covers a lot of territory. One nice thing about FoW is most of the time a book will have lists for both sides and a number of variants for each side, so you can do a lot. At first glance the difference between troops looks slim, but a lot gets added by factoring in each nation's special rules, etc.

Balance wrote:There's actually a few German lists that can field captured tanks... pretty much everyone in WWII was at least thinking about using captured equipment!

Actually, my late-war Panzerkompanie fields a Sherman tank in both of its combat platoons, in order to save points!

Don't get to hung up on points and lists, GW and Battle front both have pretty much the same business model, Play our rules, with our lists, with our figures and woe to those that don't.

This is NOT what wargaming is all about at all. If you like the rules then use the rules but don't feel that you have to use any lists if you dont want to, its your game at the end of the day, do what ever is right for you.

Aldramelech wrote:Don't get to hung up on points and lists, GW and Battle front both have pretty much the same business model, Play our rules, with our lists, with our figures and woe to those that don't.

This is NOT what wargaming is all about at all. If you like the rules then use the rules but don't feel that you have to use any lists if you dont want to, its your game at the end of the day, do what ever is right for you.

I have a problem with the above. Battlefront don't force you to use their models - in fact, they can't. And, of course, the list and rules are necessary - if you're playing in Tournaments. Of course you can change the rules however you want. But for someone who's entirely new to wargaming, perhaps it would be best to follow the guidelines, if only to test out the water. I certainly wouldn't thrust anything like Black Powder to someone who has just started out in the wargaming hobby.

The rules are necessary to play the game, the lists are not. I have been playing WW2 Wargames for the better part of 25 years and have managed to put on hundreds of balanced games without any need for army lists and points values thanks very much.

The OP has already stated that this would be for his own private amusment so tournaments have nothing to do with it, I would go as far to say that in historical gaming as a whole tournament players are a small minority and many like myself do not concern ourselves with such things.

As to BF's attitudes to the hobby, just go on their webpage and even hint at the fact that there are other figures or systems out there and watch and see how fast your post vanishes. Not everybody runs their business this way before you come back with "Well its their website" and my favorite quote is from Jim of Grindhouse Games (on who's site you can post anything as long as its being used to play the game) and that is "Hey, its your game and nobody here is going to tell you how to play with your toys".

BF's lists are designed to a/ promote their figures and b/ balance their tournament series and historical accuracy comes a pretty poor third place. What worries me more is that there are a whole new generation of gamers now playing FOW that believe everything that BF say and alot of that is pure rubbish.

You don't need all the campaign/theatre books.

What you need is:
Rulebook (you get that in the open fire set)
One campaign/theatre book to provide lists

So I would advice you to choose an era, and then an area of fighting and get that book, it should hold you over for a long time. I only own the north africa book, and I'm doing just fine.


I do have a list with pro's and con's of most producers, but it is in norwegian, and it is long, so I havn't mustered the strength to translate it yet. I'll put it in here, without pro's/con's, at least you get the producer names and links to their sites, so you can check them out yourself.

Battlefront
Link: http://www.flamesofwar.com/online_store.aspx

Forged in Battle
Link: http://www.maelstromgames.co.uk/index.php?act=cat&cre=min-fib

Plastic Solider Company
Link: http://www.maelstromgames.co.uk/index.php?act=cat&cre=min-psc&sou=cat

Command Decision
Link: http://www.oldgloryuk.com/disp_items.php?m=13&sh=2

Gaming Models
Link: http://www.gamodls.com/index.htm

Old Glory 15's/Quality Castings
Link: http://oldglory15s.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=6_8

Peter Pig
Link: http://www.peterpig.co.uk/range8.htm

Quick Reaction Force
Link: http://quickreactionforce.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=440_441

Zvezda
Link: http://models2u.co.uk/Shop/contents/en-uk/d1656.html

Eureka
Link: http://eurekamin.com.au/index.php?cPath=87_102_109

Irregular Miniatures
Link: http://www.irregularminiatures.co.uk/15mmRanges/15mmWorldWar2.htm

Legions East
Link: http://www.twotinsoldiers.com/sf60/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=5

Resistant Roosters
Link: http://resistantroosters.com/

Many of these have alternate suppliers, so probably possible to get lots of them cheaply in the states too.

I just want to say thanks for all the tips so far. I think I'm going to end up buying the North Africa book as my first campaign book, since, from my recollection, very few of the really famous big-name tanks that everyone drools over were available in the MTO(I'm talking stuff like Tigers and up) until the landings in Italy in the late war. I like the idea of having armies based on units that were the primary workhorses of the war rather than having everyone roll out a bunch of Panthers, Tigers, and what have you. Give me light mechanized infantry over the heavy armor any day.

As for alternate models, I looked at some of the websites that were listed and it seems like buying from Maelstrom Games is going to be one of my best bets. Even though I'd have to wait longer for shipping across the pond they make up for it by having things actually in-stock. Their website also tells me how many figures are in each pack, so I'm seeing that for about $25US I'm getting 115 infantry figures if I buy PSC. Zvezda vehicle seem like they would work too, though I wish they had more than just German/Soviet figures. I was looking at Old Glory too, but I've read on here about inconsistency in the quality of their products and they don't list quantities for their packs so it's hard to judge whether or not it's worth the gamble. It looks like they have a pretty extensive collection to choose from though, which is appealing.

For buying bases on their own, what am I going to need to look for? The Old Glory website has bases listed by size, and some say "Suitable for Flames of War" beside the size. I'm assuming those would be the ones I want to buy, but what size is used for what? Or does it even really matter?


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I just looked at the prices for the different campaign books, and all I have to say is "What the hell?!" $50US for pretty much every book? That's as much as the core rulebook costs, and from what I've been able to gather the campaign books don't really have much in them other than army lists and point values. Are these campaign books a huge rip off that clock in at just a handful of pages or are there so many point variations and army lists that they fill out 250 pages like the core rulebook does? Please tell me I'm not going to end up paying $50 for what amounts to nothing more than an oversized pamphlet, which is what the pictures on the FoW store make me think of since for some reason they don't offer a description on half of their books.

And here I used to think that D&D was bad at overcharging for supplements. But those books were only around $30 each, were usually around 200 pages, and were hardcover. Even the core books were 300+ pages for $35 each. Granted there were 3 of them and buying just those 3 minimum would cost as much as buying the minimum 2 books for FoW, but at least those 3 books would cover pretty much every situation you would want.

The north africa book is 250 pages and hardcover. It contains tons of lists for Germany, Italy, Commonwealth and US for three theatres: Africa (Libya/Egypt), Tunisia and Italy (Sicilly). Compare that to GW, and you can see that you do get good value from the book. You won't need another book unless you decide to branch out to early or late war.

Here is a supplier of command decision miniatures in US: http://www.warweb.com/world-war-american-c-70_138_1417_413_1147.html?sort=5a&page=1

For bases, I use: http://www.warbases.co.uk/#/flames-of-war/4543250910

Ok, so that makes some more sense if the campaign books are pretty much the same size as the core rulebook. I figure a lot of my misgivings would be easily remedied by online stores actually putting descriptions and pictures of their stuff up on the item's page. Heck, even a description would be better than nothing, but not even the official webstore has them for everything, which makes no sense to me.

As for those bases at Warbases, are they made of heavy cardstock, thin fiberboard like what's used for clipboards, or plastic? Also, those buildings for sale there look like they would be perfect for a starter terrain board. I figure they're definitely made of heavy cardstock considering the fairly low price. I think that if I do a North African campaign I'm going to need to brush up on my papercraft to make some decent looking, semi-durable buildings for my terrain.

It's funny, I'm probably coming off as a bit finnicky when it comes to my reactions to some stuff(like the book prices and my wariness of alternative models) but the more I think about getting into the game the more I actually want to get into it, even if I just end up making giant dioramas because I can't get a group going.

I would definitely agree that North Afrika is a good value as it covers so much territory (literally...)

Well then I guess it's a good thing that I really want to do North Africa compared to most others. I'd eventually like to get into Europe, but North Africa was on the top of my list to play.

Pretty much all the 15mm WW2 gaming companies could use a visit from a web designer and a marketer. Forged in Battle has the best site, followed by BF's not exactly awesome site, while the rest have varying degrees of extremely crappy sites

Those bases are in MDF I believe, they smell funky (a bit like a smoky whiskey), but they won't warp or break easily. I'm guessing the houses are also MDF

There are many producers of 15mm terrain too, google around, here are two good ones:
http://www.jrminiatures.net/
http://www.crescent-root.com/

Well, I just got done typing up a LFG flyer that I'm going to hang on my local comic shop's bulletin board. I'm not going to hang it until I get myself set up to host a game, complete with a spare army for any other new players like myself and at least some basic terrain, but I've got it typed up and ready to go for then.

On the topic of getting set up, I was looking at buying some of the Plastic Soldier Company infantry kits and I was wondering how many platoons I'll be able to make out of the 100-ish minis that come in a box? From what I've seen most bases have between 3-5 infantry on them, but I don't know if each base is a platoon or just a squad/section or what. Maybe the better question would be "What is the average point value of a PSC infantry box?" I mentioned in my OP that I'm going to be building at least 2 armies so I can loan one out, and I want to have them be as fun as possible while staying on a limited budget. Knowing some relative point value for 100 infantry is going to at least give me some bearing on what I'm going to need.

Also, what size is an average terrain board? I think I read somewhere on here that it was 4'x6', but I just want to make sure.

So I got my starter kit in the mail yesterday, and I noticed that the guns for my tanks have a lot of extra metal still attached. Since it seems to be soft like lead or tin I tried to use an x-acto knife with just a regular blade, but that doesn't work. What do you guys use to clear the extra crud off of the models? Also, what kind of glue should I be using to attach the guns to the turrets? Should I just be using the regular model glue that I used to use when I built plastic model cars and rockets, or is there a certain kind of glue specifically for metal models?

Also, I've decided that for my first two armies I'm going for Brits and Germans. I just ordered the North Africa campaign book, and I ordered a few infantry packs from Old Glory. The infantry packs I bought are a British rifle platoon, command platoon, and Vickers MG platoon(all 8th Army), and a German early war infantry platoon and early war AT rifle platoon to go along with the grenadier command platoon that I bought earlier. I think I'll be ordering some mortars for both sides and then some paints and bases to start getting them all ready next time I have some spare cash. Any tips on what else I should buy next to end up with a decent and full game, or am I doing good so far?

One schutzen platoon =
4-6 bases of MG infantry (one base = 3-4 riflemen + LMG)
1 base command (3 men, can have panzerknäcker)
0-2 5cm PAK 38 (one can be upgraded to 6pdr)
0-1 AT rifle OR 2.8cm sPzB41 AT rifle
0-1 8cm GW34 Mortar
(+trucks, but they are not that important at first)

One UK rifle platoon =
4-6 bases of rifle/MG infantry (same as MG infantry, but with slightly less LMG's)
1 base command
0-1 light mortar
0-1 AT rifle

HMG's can be attached in or stay in their own platoon, mortars are in their own platoon.

Mortars are always useful, so they are a nice buy. The only "questionable" buy you have made this far are the german AT rifles, as you won't really use many of them. Some of the figs can probably be used for other things, so you'll probably be fine (and 9$ shouldn't be the end of the world - warweb is insanely cheap, bought a bunch from there today, even with across-the-pond shipping, it was very nice prices)

Some artillery and some tanks for each side will add to the experience. Just make sure the forces are pretty even.

Unruly wrote:So I got my starter kit in the mail yesterday, and I noticed that the guns for my tanks have a lot of extra metal still attached. Since it seems to be soft like lead or tin I tried to use an x-acto knife with just a regular blade, but that doesn't work. What do you guys use to clear the extra crud off of the models? Also, what kind of glue should I be using to attach the guns to the turrets? Should I just be using the regular model glue that I used to use when I built plastic model cars and rockets, or is there a certain kind of glue specifically for metal models?

Also, I've decided that for my first two armies I'm going for Brits and Germans. I just ordered the North Africa campaign book, and I ordered a few infantry packs from Old Glory. The infantry packs I bought are a British rifle platoon, command platoon, and Vickers MG platoon(all 8th Army), and a German early war infantry platoon and early war AT rifle platoon to go along with the grenadier command platoon that I bought earlier. I think I'll be ordering some mortars for both sides and then some paints and bases to start getting them all ready next time I have some spare cash. Any tips on what else I should buy next to end up with a decent and full game, or am I doing good so far?

What you've got on the models is known as "flash", its residue metal from the casting process and unfortunately if your going to buy BF models your going to see a lot of it, Myself and everybody I know use a very sharp knife to get it off, perhaps your knife is a little blunt? As for glue, you will need "Super Glue". The plastic model glue you use works by melting the the plastic together to form a bond and obviously that's not going to work on metal or resin as neither will melt. The down side to Super glue (apart from sticking your fingers together all the time) is that it is very brittle and does not always form an instant bond, especially when trying to attach heavy pieces together. In that situation lots of people use a modelling putty called "nedite" (Games Workshop call it Green Stuff).

Well, apparently my knife was dull and that's why I was having a hard time cutting away the flash. I was kinda surprised at that, since I don't remember having really used that blade all that heavily in the past, but maybe it had just dulled due to exposure in the couple of years since I last built a model.

I just got my North Africa book in the mail today, and was just browsing through it to see about the army lists and everything to try and figure out what I'm going to need to build a couple of armies. I've also flipped through the main rulebook a bit, but not read all of it, and I've got a few more questions. I'm sure at least some of them are going to be answerable by fully reading the rulebook, but I'm going to ask them anyways.

1. What the hell is a panzerknacker? I've seen you guys reference them, I apparently got two in my grenadier HQ platoon, and the books reference them but they don't explain what they are. The best I can figure is that it's some form of anti-tank weapon, but it seems to be referencing something specific because every other reference to anti-tank is pretty specific in that it lists an exact model. Is it just the name that gets used for the German AT riflemen?

2. How do you distinguish between the various models of vehicles that don't have different features that are readily apparent during play? For instance a Panzer III J and a Panzer III L both have the same gun and I assume would share the same model since the J doesn't have schurzen, but they have different stats. While I understand that the L and M share the same stats, and the M model is probably the best representation since it should have schurzen, I'm trying to figure out how you would distinguish it in a game if you didn't have a Panzer III M model available.

3. How does proxying models work? This is just a variation on my last question, but it probably works out a little bit differently.

4. If I build two armies that equal out to the same general point value can I expect them to be for the most part balanced? I understand that the actual force composition has a lot to do with it, like having the capability to pin down the enemy and armor/anti-armor support, but if they're the same point value will they at least stand a fighting chance if played properly? I need to know this because I don't want to build two armies that are mirror images of each other while still giving each side a generally equal chance to win.

5. Divisional support - is it just regular units that you can actually use from the start of the game or do they have special rules surrounding them? I know that you can use units from certain other armies and that those units have to follow their particular army's rules, but is there anything else? Do I have to wait until turn X to use them because they're considered reinforcements or something like that?

6. How does the game actually play out? I've looked over the different steps and everything, seen a whole lot of explanations, and it seems to me that everything happens at a snail's pace. I know that things usually tend to play out faster than they seem in the rulebook once you get started, but it just seems like I'm going to be referencing the book every 2 seconds because of the seeming level of complexity.

7. What's the best way to go about painting and basing models, infantry in particular? I see pictures of bases that are all decked out to be pretty much mobile terrain and I'm wondering if they did the base painting and everything before sticking the model on, if they stuck a painted model on an unpainted base, or if they stuck them both together unpainted and then started entirely from scratch. My guess is that they painted them both completely separate and then stuck the models on the base afterwards, but I could be wrong because maybe that causes some issues when it comes to gluing the model to the base or something.

1. I believe it is a squad armed with anti-tank mines etc. You can probably use AT rifle guys for this role too. The squad gets improved AT capability in assault
2. Silly germans with their insane number of models. There are actually rules that say that you can't distinguish these kinds of tanks. I'm sure there are some minor differences, but for most, you can use one as either as one or the other (just make sure you don't use the two of them in the same platoon - then it starts getting difficult)
3. You use a model of something for something else. The issue with proxying is that if it is overdone, it becomes very confusing, and can be deterimental to the enjoyment of the game
4. That is the point of the pts-system yes, but you can build extreme armies, which would leave one side as an underdog. Ex: You can build an army of three tigers. If your opponent has no AT12+, no flame-throwers and no extra assault AT capability, he will loose. If you stay away from extreme lists, you should be fine. Including some armour in both lists will help, as armour is easier to attack with, and all lists should have some capability to attack.
5. Regular units
6. A 1500pts game usually takes 2-3 hours. Games take much longer when you are new to the game because you have to check the rules often. The only way to learn is to first read the rules, then play games. You will do lots of things wrong, but less and less for each time.
7. Varies what you prefer. I base my figs on the base, fill the base with basing-putty, spackle and sand. Basecoat with spray in the color of the uniform. Paint the base. Paint the figures. Add foliage/grass/watereffect or other stuff at the end

Unruly wrote:

1. What the hell is a panzerknacker? I've seen you guys reference them, I apparently got two in my grenadier HQ platoon, and the books reference them but they don't explain what they are. The best I can figure is that it's some form of anti-tank weapon, but it seems to be referencing something specific because every other reference to anti-tank is pretty specific in that it lists an exact model. Is it just the name that gets used for the German AT riflemen?

It's an infantry-carried magnetic-mine, also called a Haftholladung that is used in tank-assaults. Therefore, it makes the team using it Tank Assault 4 I believe when assaulting tanks.

2. How do you distinguish between the various models of vehicles that don't have different features that are readily apparent during play? For instance a Panzer III J and a Panzer III L both have the same gun and I assume would share the same model since the J doesn't have schurzen, but they have different stats. While I understand that the L and M share the same stats, and the M model is probably the best representation since it should have schurzen, I'm trying to figure out how you would distinguish it in a game if you didn't have a Panzer III M model available.

For similar models, you can use the same ones and make a note of which models are being used if you're running a mixed tank-platoon. Just mark them with a chit or counter to differentiate them on the board.

3. How does proxying models work? This is just a variation on my last question, but it probably works out a little bit differently.

As long as you and your opponent agree on what can be proxied, then you're fine.

4. If I build two armies that equal out to the same general point value can I expect them to be for the most part balanced? I understand that the actual force composition has a lot to do with it, like having the capability to pin down the enemy and armor/anti-armor support, but if they're the same point value will they at least stand a fighting chance if played properly? I need to know this because I don't want to build two armies that are mirror images of each other while still giving each side a generally equal chance to win.

There are some matchup issues with the different units involved in FoW; like infantry vs armor vs gun-teams, etc. The points give you a baseline in army strength either by skill-level/equipment and/or firepower. So balance is what you make of it. In MW, in my opinion, I find it more balanced across all armies as everyone has a chance. You can run a tank company of Tigers all you want, and it would be powerful (and expensive) but you're going to run into the matchup issue versus an all infantry and heavy gun-team list depending on what equipment they're using. So, yeah, force composition does matter.....but since you're running MW North Africa, you should have no problems building two opposing balanced forces within the same points limit.

5. Divisional support - is it just regular units that you can actually use from the start of the game or do they have special rules surrounding them? I know that you can use units from certain other armies and that those units have to follow their particular army's rules, but is there anything else? Do I have to wait until turn X to use them because they're considered reinforcements or something like that?

Divisional support units are supporting units to your company; some may have special rules concerning arrival (like air support) but mostly, they are additional units in your army. Some units have their own skill-rating since they're from another part of the army or are specialists, but they're just more units you can have with your army.

6. How does the game actually play out? I've looked over the different steps and everything, seen a whole lot of explanations, and it seems to me that everything happens at a snail's pace. I know that things usually tend to play out faster than they seem in the rulebook once you get started, but it just seems like I'm going to be referencing the book every 2 seconds because of the seeming level of complexity

You can use the reference sheet pdf on the FoW site to help guide you through your first games as far as the step process goes (moving, shooting, assault, etc), however, it plays pretty timely depending on how many points are involved. Once you get started, you'll pickup it up pretty quickly and find out more as you go along.

7. What's the best way to go about painting and basing models, infantry in particular? I see pictures of bases that are all decked out to be pretty much mobile terrain and I'm wondering if they did the base painting and everything before sticking the model on, if they stuck a painted model on an unpainted base, or if they stuck them both together unpainted and then started entirely from scratch. My guess is that they painted them both completely separate and then stuck the models on the base afterwards, but I could be wrong because maybe that causes some issues when it comes to gluing the model to the base or something.

This is where it comes to player preference; I have my own method for painting and basing my teams as others here have their own way that's different from mine. For infantry teams, I position the figs the way I like, then glue them down to the base. Then I flock the base with with sand or gravel (I play North Africa as well as I run italian bersaglieri lol!) then spray-paint them primer-black. Once I have what I want base-coated, I start to paint. Now with artillery, I usually paint the crew individually. The gun is done separate as is the base. I glue the gun down on the base and then position the crew accordingly. Figure out what's best for you....others here can give you suggestions.

Getting a little bit deeper into painting and terrain with this post.

If I were to buy the Vallejo paint sets from the Flames of War website(Quartermaster and North Africa sets) how many infantry figures can I expect to get painted with each set? How many vehicles? I know it probably depends on my skill as a painter and the amount of detail work that I do, but I'm talking just some basic paint jobs with nothing really fancy since I'm a beginner at it.

Is there anywhere cheaper to buy the paints from? Not knowing how many figures that the paints are good for it seems like they might be a pretty hefty investment on their own considering that just the 2 paint sets that I would need to paint my armies total out at close to $100.

How long do paints last if they've been previously opened and then sit unused for a while? Back when I was younger and was painting model cars using Testors enamel paints I noticed that if I opened a paint jar and then didn't use it for a few months the paints would really start to dry out and harden regardless of how tight I had them resealed. I know that all paints dry out over time so I want to figure out whether I should wait until after I've bought all the figures I need for my armies before buying the paints and starting on it or if they'll last more than a few months after being opened so that I can paint what I have and then buy more figures down the line without having to buy new paints too.

It looks like the Vallejo paints are acrylic, and it seems that Citadel and P3 paints are as well since these are the 3 brands that I hear about the most when it comes to painting miniatures. So that leads me to believe that acrylic is the type of choice. Is using enamel paints a bad idea for something like this?

For terrain I know I asked about some stuff before, like what to build terrain on, but I've got some more questions now that I'm starting to get my collection of miniatures up and need to get some terrain going in order to actually try playing a game.

I was looking at different materials to use as a base for a terrain board at a local hardware store and I actually ended up talking to an employee there who has a friend that plays Warhammer. I was asking him what kind of materials that his friend uses to build his terrain and he pointed out some 2" thick sheets of foam building insulation saying that his friend usually cuts his terrain straight out of that. That got me thinking about giving it a shot. I know that Warhammer terrain and FoW terrain are pretty radically different, but it seems like it would be a pretty good idea since the sheets are pretty sturdy on their own and rather than building the terrain up on top of something I would be able to work my way down into the foam, layering sections on top if I wanted higher terrain. Does anyone have any experience with this kind of thing, and if so what tools do you use to do it?

What's the best way to go about making sure a piece of terrain is at least somewhat realistic to the area that it's supposed to be situated in? Generic Western European villages and European countryside are one thing, since you see them all the time in stuff that's based on WWII thanks to that being what most people seem to focus on(I was more than a bit guilty of this for a long time). The early stages in Italy aren't much harder thanks to the actions at Anzio and Salerno being somewhat common knowledge, but North Africa remains somewhat of a mystery because it seems like no one outside of historians really talk about it. To be honest, up until fairly recently I had never heard of El Alamein and had only ever really heard about Operation Torch and some bits about Tunisia.

What kinds of terrain fluff should I be looking at getting for a North Africa game? By fluff I'm talking about things like grasses, trees, all the detail stuff that you can't really do well with paints. Would I be best served to buy a few of the Battlefront "Battlefield in a Box" sets or try to put things together piecemeal from other places?

Would I be better off to build my terrain with a bunch of features built in or glued on to make it a fairly static board or to keep as many of the features loose and able to be repositioned? I know the obvious answer is probably to keep them loose and able to be moved around, but the obvious answer isn't always the best one.

Also, all the miniatures I bought from Old Glory arrived the other day and I have to say that I will definitely be buying from them more in the future. They've got a lot less flash on them than the infantry pack I bought from Battlefront did, and they were cheaper to boot. I haven't bought any of their vehicles, so I can't give my opinion on them yet, but their infantry seems to be just fine for me. So thanks to the people that recommended them. And I want to say thanks in advance for any answers that get provided. I know I've been asking a lot of questions since I joined up on here and it's gotta be kind of annoying to run into a wall of text that's just me asking questions.

Unruly wrote:
If I were to buy the Vallejo paint sets from the Flames of War website(Quartermaster and North Africa sets) how many infantry figures can I expect to get painted with each set? How many vehicles? I know it probably depends on my skill as a painter and the amount of detail work that I do, but I'm talking just some basic paint jobs with nothing really fancy since I'm a beginner at it.

"A lot."

I've painted a couple dozen Heavy Gear minis (The minis are about the size of a 28mm Warhammer 40k figure) and several tanks with GW Bleached Bone and I think I'm on my third pot... And that's in part due to it drying out. Also uwed it on scenery and such, and I used the same color on my Tyranids years ago...

Unruly wrote:
Is there anywhere cheaper to buy the paints from? Not knowing how many figures that the paints are good for it seems like they might be a pretty hefty investment on their own considering that just the 2 paint sets that I would need to paint my armies total out at close to $100.

Have you checked The War Store? If they don't have what you're looking for listed, contact them and they may be able to get it. You can also buy the individual Vallejo or Reaper paints for what you need.

$100 for paints seems expensive... Are you by chance looking at Battlefront's site in AUS$?

Craft/Art stores can be a good source for brushes and such as well.

Unruly wrote:
How long do paints last if they've been previously opened and then sit unused for a while? Back when I was younger and was painting model cars using Testors enamel paints I noticed that if I opened a paint jar and then didn't use it for a few months the paints would really start to dry out and harden regardless of how tight I had them resealed. I know that all paints dry out over time so I want to figure out whether I should wait until after I've bought all the figures I need for my armies before buying the paints and starting on it or if they'll last more than a few months after being opened so that I can paint what I have and then buy more figures down the line without having to buy new paints too.

Just this weekend a friend showed me a truly ancient (80s?) citadel paint bottle. It's still fresh other than needing to be mixed. OTOH, I've had paints dry out very quickly in the past. I've decided that how they're stored makes a lot of difference: store them tightly closed, vertically (I moved, some were on their side for a month and seemed to dry out more) ideally in a cool, dark place. Stored properly,t hey'll last a lot longer than otherwise.

Personally, I paint slowly and wouldn't hold up painting until I had everything, but it's your call.

Unruly wrote:
It looks like the Vallejo paints are acrylic, and it seems that Citadel and P3 paints are as well since these are the 3 brands that I hear about the most when it comes to painting miniatures. So that leads me to believe that acrylic is the type of choice. Is using enamel paints a bad idea for something like this?

I think it's the preferred, but ultimately it's your call. I think enamels tend to be a bit brighter, but they might not wear as well. Either way, prime and seal. Also, don't forget that if it looks good and it works, it's not a bad idea.

You may also be able to cheat a bit and use spray paint to do the base coat of minis, especially armor, in the right color, so you can spend time on details instead. Big 'slabs' of armor can be annoying to paint with a brush as they show brush strokes.

Unruly wrote:
For terrain I know I asked about some stuff before, like what to build terrain on, but I've got some more questions now that I'm starting to get my collection of miniatures up and need to get some terrain going in order to actually try playing a game.

I was looking at different materials to use as a base for a terrain board at a local hardware store and I actually ended up talking to an employee there who has a friend that plays Warhammer. I was asking him what kind of materials that his friend uses to build his terrain and he pointed out some 2" thick sheets of foam building insulation saying that his friend usually cuts his terrain straight out of that. That got me thinking about giving it a shot. I know that Warhammer terrain and FoW terrain are pretty radically different, but it seems like it would be a pretty good idea since the sheets are pretty sturdy on their own and rather than building the terrain up on top of something I would be able to work my way down into the foam, layering sections on top if I wanted higher terrain. Does anyone have any experience with this kind of thing, and if so what tools do you use to do it?

Layered insulation foam is great for building hills and such, especially if the very nice 'Battlefield in a box' stuff is a bit pricey for your tastes. I have a 'hot wire' cutter to cut it: it's essentially a can with a battery in it that runs voltage through a thin wire that heats up to melt through foam, but you can also use various cutting tools. The cutter leaves less dust, though.

Unruly wrote:
What's the best way to go about making sure a piece of terrain is at least somewhat realistic to the area that it's supposed to be situated in? Generic Western European villages and European countryside are one thing, since you see them all the time in stuff that's based on WWII thanks to that being what most people seem to focus on(I was more than a bit guilty of this for a long time). The early stages in Italy aren't much harder thanks to the actions at Anzio and Salerno being somewhat common knowledge, but North Africa remains somewhat of a mystery because it seems like no one outside of historians really talk about it. To be honest, up until fairly recently I had never heard of El Alamein and had only ever really heard about Operation Torch and some bits about Tunisia.

Research. Wikipedia is always a useful source. Movies set in the era can be good as well. Wargames tend to exaggerate things a bit (A 'village' will often be represented by a crossroads and 5-7 buildings because it would otherwise take up the whole table.) so it's usually OK to improvise a bit. There's a lot of affordable FoW-scale scenery out there, and much of it is designed for Northern Africa.

Movies aren't going to be 100% realistic, but the good ones are soaked in the right 'feel.' It's an older movie, but Patton is a classic and has some scenes set in North Africa for inspiration.

Unruly wrote:
What kinds of terrain fluff should I be looking at getting for a North Africa game? By fluff I'm talking about things like grasses, trees, all the detail stuff that you can't really do well with paints. Would I be best served to buy a few of the Battlefront "Battlefield in a Box" sets or try to put things together piecemeal from other places?

Not sure. I'd need to do research as above.

Unruly wrote:
Would I be better off to build my terrain with a bunch of features built in or glued on to make it a fairly static board or to keep as many of the features loose and able to be repositioned? I know the obvious answer is probably to keep them loose and able to be moved around, but the obvious answer isn't always the best one.

In general, unless you have room to store a large board, keep it modular. (Loose buildings, etc.) Fighting over the same choke points can get old quickly. At the smaller level, a lot of people recommend doing this for 'area terrain' like forests as well: have a piece of material marking the bounds of the terrain, then put trees in it. Models can mvoe throught he woods, displacing trees as needed, but yous till get the visual appeal.

Unruly wrote:
Also, all the miniatures I bought from Old Glory arrived the other day and I have to say that I will definitely be buying from them more in the future. They've got a lot less flash on them than the infantry pack I bought from Battlefront did, and they were cheaper to boot. I haven't bought any of their vehicles, so I can't give my opinion on them yet, but their infantry seems to be just fine for me. So thanks to the people that recommended them. And I want to say thanks in advance for any answers that get provided. I know I've been asking a lot of questions since I joined up on here and it's gotta be kind of annoying to run into a wall of text that's just me asking questions.

Cool! Make sure you're basing as required for Flames of War.

For the paints I was looking at the Quartmaster set and the North Africa set, which on the Battlefront store cost $40 each. So that's $80 for just the paint, and another $15 or so for the brushes. So pretty close to $100. The War Store has the North Africa set for $36, but not the Quartermaster set. And now that I look at their individual pot prices, I would be better off to just buy the individual pots that make up the two sets, since that would put me at around $70 for just the paints(if I buy every pot included in the sets), and $80 after brushes, so that's around $15 less for everything compared to the paint sets alone.

As for the insulation sheets being used as terrain it's good to know that other people do it too and that it's acceptable. Now, do you just cut individual pieces out of smaller sections of foam, or do you actually carve a whole sheet(or layered sheets) into the general base terrain layout that you're going for, or do you do a bit of both? I've seen the hot wire cutters before, but usually they're in something resembling a scroll saw setup that's more suited to cutting and shaping smaller sections rather than cutting out pieces from a large sheet. I was looking at the prices of them today and saw that they also make hot knives, which are essentially solder guns with a hobby knife tip. So I might get one of those instead.