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So, I'm looking to try out a less common chapter, using standard/basic codex rules (every time I've gone to a corner case fun fluff army, it's been great, 'til GW kills it (ulthwe strike force, lost and the damned, inquisition with guard auxilliary, etc)).

Before reading, my question is twofold:
1- fluff-- any suggestions?
2- rules-- any pitfalls?

So, I've been thinking of one of the following:

Relictors (librarian representing a radical inquisitor, relic blade representing demon weapon)
Word Bearers (black templar rules)
Astral Claws (codex rules, maybe Forgeworld special characters)

Or possibly my the old basics of Dark Angels or Black Templars.

However, I'm worried about the Templars/word bearers proxies, because (I've been out of the game for a while), I'm under the impression that Dark Angels got the shaft with their new codex vs. the new Marines one, so they're better off as codex marines, which is fine, since they can swap pretty easily, but the Templars can't, so they don't have that fallback, unless I want to play them as chaos marines.

So, I guess my question is, are there some other interesting corner cases you might suggest? I'm more interested in the ones with a darker side to them, not interested in Ultarmarines, Imperial Fists, etc.

Should I go for one of the bigger alternative chapters (black templars, etc.)

Is it worth hedging and going with basic space marines, or is it possible they'll screw that up, too?

Is it worth waiting 'til 6th edition (rumored) comes out?

thanks in advance for any advice

Pick up Imperial Armour IX and X if you haven't, a good number of of rather offbeat, obscure chapters are described in those two toes. If it's 'dark' you want, the Carcharodons, Minotaurs and Exorcists would all fit the bill in their different ways.

Well, other than the Templars and the Fists the Legions/Chapters you mentioned definitely have a dark side to them. Either being renegades or gone to full blown Chaos.

I mentioned this in another thread, but it may be useful to you here.

There is a Forge World created 'loyalist' Chapter that is pretty 'dark' in the manner that they do things, completely mysterious and inordinately powerful when compared with other marine Chapters. The fluff even alludes to some rather 'sinister' possibilities... but, go ahead and read their background.

They are called the Minotaurs and I heartily recommend that you check 'em out. There is some miniature support for these guys as well by way of decals I think.

If you want an Inquisitorial related Chapter, look at the Red Hunters.

I like the Relictors idea best. I've never seen a Relictors army. I think it would be cool.

I agree with the Minotaurs Idea especially since they have this available from Forge World.

Brazen Claws (I play them), or many of the forgeworld chapters e.g.
Mantis Warriors - Hit and Run tactics
Carcharodons - Close Combat and Terminator Command Squad

Or, any of the Space Marine Chapters in the 5th edition codex e.g.
Genesis Chapter - Perfect Standard Codex
Praetors of Orpheus - Techmarine Sargent upgrade
Sons of Orar - Perfect Standard Codex
Aurora Chapter - Cheaper LRs and Predators
Hawk Lords - Descent of Angels for Non-teleporting and Non-Drop Poding stuff
Sable Swords - Perfect Standard Codex
Knights of the Raven - Raven Guard Tactics (Shrike)
Iron Lords - Extra Dreadnoughts
BRAZEN CLAWS - SUPER AWESOME, PLASMA FOCUSED IRON HANDS
The Mentors - Ally IG and more expensive Marines Stuffs
Fire Lords - Preliminary Bombardment every game


Otherwise check the following for a great Chapter Creation Rule Set:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/384339.page

Exorcists are an arm of the inqusition now rofl.
They are basically daemon killers

Knights of Blood - Blood Angels successors declaimed renegade because they're just that vicious. Not chaos-spiky, still fight for man.

Black Dragons - Bone mutations (Spiky blades!). Assault oriented, cursed founding.

Lamenters - Depressed. Incredibly bad luck. Noble warriors regardles

Sons of Antaeus - Super tough marines, mysterious force somewhat Legion of the Damned like.

Iron Knights - Imperial Fist successors, crusading chapter. Won the 'Feast of Blades' two times in a row, unlike any other chapter that participates.

Mantis Warriors - Wrong side of the Badab rebellion. Sneaky marines?

The Knights of Gryphonne - Home world destroyed by 'nids. Crusading chapter now.

Can't Forget about the Scythes of the Emperor, they are 50x more badass than the crimson fists and have 3 ships and fought off an entire tyranid invasion at the cost of almost their entire chapter. And they are still kicking.

Celestial Lions. A Chapter that spoke out against the heavy-handed side of the Inquisition, and suffered a series of mysterious disasters afterwards.
Currently fighting on Armageddon with a single Company remaining.

Ironsight wrote:Celestial Lions. A Chapter that spoke out against the heavy-handed side of the Inquisition, and suffered a series of mysterious disasters afterwards.
Currently fighting on Armageddon with a single Company remaining.

Sad isn't it that a chapter that supports humanity yet gets attacked by the inqusition?
Though the Scythes and the Lions are probably two very elite chapters.

spiralingcadaver wrote:
Or possibly my the old basics of Dark Angels or Black Templars.

However, I'm worried about the Templars/word bearers proxies, because (I've been out of the game for a while), I'm under the impression that Dark Angels got the shaft with their new codex vs. the new Marines one, so they're better off as codex marines, which is fine, since they can swap pretty easily, but the Templars can't, so they don't have that fallback, unless I want to play them as chaos marines.

The DA codex is weak compared to the SM codex, which is sad for a long time DA player like myself.

Or you could just look at the badab war series chapters they are awesome.

Uhlan wrote:There is a Forge World created 'loyalist' Chapter that is pretty 'dark' in the manner that they do things, completely mysterious and inordinately powerful when compared with other marine Chapters. The fluff even alludes to some rather 'sinister' possibilities... but, go ahead and read their background.

They are called the Minotaurs and I heartily recommend that you check 'em out. There is some miniature support for these guys as well by way of decals I think.

The Minotaurs are hardly a Forgeworld creation. They've been around since at least 2nd edition. Pretty sure they have been mentioned ever since the Badab War has been mentioned in official fluff.

Forgeworld just expanded their fluff, like they did for the Space Sharks, Mantis Warriors, etc.

-Loki- wrote:

Uhlan wrote:There is a Forge World created 'loyalist' Chapter that is pretty 'dark' in the manner that they do things, completely mysterious and inordinately powerful when compared with other marine Chapters. The fluff even alludes to some rather 'sinister' possibilities... but, go ahead and read their background.

They are called the Minotaurs and I heartily recommend that you check 'em out. There is some miniature support for these guys as well by way of decals I think.

The Minotaurs are hardly a Forgeworld creation. They've been around since at least 2nd edition. Pretty sure they have been mentioned ever since the Badab War has been mentioned in official fluff.

Forgeworld just expanded their fluff, like they did for the Space Sharks, Mantis Warriors, etc.

Caracahodons.

Asherian Command wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

Uhlan wrote:There is a Forge World created 'loyalist' Chapter that is pretty 'dark' in the manner that they do things, completely mysterious and inordinately powerful when compared with other marine Chapters. The fluff even alludes to some rather 'sinister' possibilities... but, go ahead and read their background.

They are called the Minotaurs and I heartily recommend that you check 'em out. There is some miniature support for these guys as well by way of decals I think.

The Minotaurs are hardly a Forgeworld creation. They've been around since at least 2nd edition. Pretty sure they have been mentioned ever since the Badab War has been mentioned in official fluff.

Forgeworld just expanded their fluff, like they did for the Space Sharks, Mantis Warriors, etc.

Caracahodons.

If you want to go that way, be correct. Carcharadon Astra. That's high gothic. Space Sharks is low gothic. Carcharadons on its own is slang, like calling Ultramarines Ultras.

Wow! Thanks for the responses (including the ones I didn't respond to)!

English Assassin wrote:Pick up Imperial Armour IX and X if you haven't, a good number of of rather offbeat, obscure chapters are described in those two toes. If it's 'dark' you want, the Carcharodons, Minotaurs and Exorcists would all fit the bill in their different ways.

I have IA IX (and am looking for the second half)-- which is what got me thinking about the Astral Claws: I like a lot about them, but am wary of where they're headed. I'm interested in the various implied outside forces involved.

Carcharodons (sp?) and Minotaurs seem fun enough, but, call me a snob, but I can't get over their names/logos.

Kanluwen wrote:If you want an Inquisitorial related Chapter, look at the Red Hunters.

Never heard of them, any place I could find that?

Config2 wrote:Brazen Claws (I play them), or many of the forgeworld chapters e.g.
Mantis Warriors - Hit and Run tactics
Carcharodons - Close Combat and Terminator Command Squad

Or, any of the Space Marine Chapters in the 5th edition codex e.g.
Genesis Chapter - Perfect Standard Codex
Praetors of Orpheus - Techmarine Sargent upgrade
Sons of Orar - Perfect Standard Codex
Aurora Chapter - Cheaper LRs and Predators
Hawk Lords - Descent of Angels for Non-teleporting and Non-Drop Poding stuff
Sable Swords - Perfect Standard Codex
Knights of the Raven - Raven Guard Tactics (Shrike)
Iron Lords - Extra Dreadnoughts
BRAZEN CLAWS - SUPER AWESOME, PLASMA FOCUSED IRON HANDS
The Mentors - Ally IG and more expensive Marines Stuffs
Fire Lords - Preliminary Bombardment every game


Otherwise check the following for a great Chapter Creation Rule Set:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/384339.page

I loved the 4th edition customization bits that IIRC Marines and Guard got, but none of that stuff is legal, right? I was under the impression that in 5th, it's basically just stuff in codexes? If not, I'd be all over any resources for extra chapter variants. I've always been fond of mixed grunts (IG/mutants/conscripts/whatever) and power armor, in particular.

Mantis warriors always confused me the same way as Raven Guard and Night Warriors, I don't get how giant dudes in sci-fi full plate can be sneaky.

And I do love me some tech themes, may need to check out the brazen claws--any more details?

Asherian Command wrote:Can't Forget about the Scythes of the Emperor, they are 50x more badass than the crimson fists and have 3 ships and fought off an entire tyranid invasion at the cost of almost their entire chapter. And they are still kicking.

They're the black and yellow guys, right? I like their theme, but don't know much about them...

Ironsight wrote:Celestial Lions. A Chapter that spoke out against the heavy-handed side of the Inquisition, and suffered a series of mysterious disasters afterwards.
Currently fighting on Armageddon with a single Company remaining.

Hmm, that could be fun. I've always had a soft spot for Armageddon.

Jimsolo wrote:I like the Relictors idea best. I've never seen a Relictors army. I think it would be cool.

I have had one since their first WD outing, so have had to decide which ways to take them after their excommunication or to keep them asa time locked army.

I too use relic blades as deamon weapon stand ins and have a force that is vet heavy (if you can get away from Grey Knights alive you are probably a good soldier). As a bit of a difference i use scouts with a Telion stand in to represent a relic recon force. I am styling my army around a a Relictors force trying to recover a relic.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Red_Hunters


I don't know about you guys, but I've always liked this color scheme.

It's nice, it's simple, and it works well compared to most of the <Color> <Action Verb/Noun> Chapters.

spiralingcadaver wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:Can't Forget about the Scythes of the Emperor, they are 50x more badass than the crimson fists and have 3 ships and fought off an entire tyranid invasion at the cost of almost their entire chapter. And they are still kicking.

They're the black and yellow guys, right? I like their theme, but don't know much about them...

Read up about them. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Scythes_of_the_Emperor#.Tocy13LO19k
Great chapter never used.
Great colors and one of the best histories.

Relictors

Really, I love their color scheme. Nothing says "brainwashed sci-fi supersoldier" better than a coat of cold, steely gray. That, and their habit of using heretical dubious weaponry could make for an interesting modelling project.

There seems to be some hate towards them amongst my local group of SM players... probably due to some Black Library-related stuff I don't really care about.

If you really want to come out of left field, go with the Death Spectres. They're a chapter that's pretty much single-handedly defending the Imperium from the inhabitants of the Ghoul Stars - they're out beyond the fringes of Imperial space, being badasses where nobody notices.

We don't actually know what the "inhabitants of the Ghoul Stars" are.

For all we know, the Death Spectres are fighting giant fuzzy kittens who are trying to smother them(lovingly) with cuddles.

So the Ghoul Stars are home to Equestria?

Coolyo294 wrote:So the Ghoul Stars are home to Equestria?

in my fluff my chapter is located in the ghoul stars and maintains an empire to defend against an alien group there. But thats just my chapter which is considered fan fluff so it is immediately disregarded!

BrainDeleted wrote:Knights of Blood - Blood Angels successors declaimed renegade because they're just that vicious. Not chaos-spiky, still fight for man.

Black Dragons - Bone mutations (Spiky blades!). Assault oriented, cursed founding.

Lamenters - Depressed. Incredibly bad luck. Noble warriors regardles

Sons of Antaeus - Super tough marines, mysterious force somewhat Legion of the Damned like.

Iron Knights - Imperial Fist successors, crusading chapter. Won the 'Feast of Blades' two times in a row, unlike any other chapter that participates.

Mantis arriors - Wrong side of the Badab rebellion. Sneaky marines?

The Knights of Gryphonne - Home world destroyed by 'nids. Crusading chapter now.

Ooh! Ooh! I play iron knights. They're easy to paint, look badass and their one paragraph of fluff is pretty cool. Plus, I've never, ever seen anyone else with the same army.

Ktulhut wrote:

BrainDeleted wrote:Knights of Blood - Blood Angels successors declaimed renegade because they're just that vicious. Not chaos-spiky, still fight for man.

Black Dragons - Bone mutations (Spiky blades!). Assault oriented, cursed founding.

Lamenters - Depressed. Incredibly bad luck. Noble warriors regardles

Sons of Antaeus - Super tough marines, mysterious force somewhat Legion of the Damned like.

Iron Knights - Imperial Fist successors, crusading chapter. Won the 'Feast of Blades' two times in a row, unlike any other chapter that participates.

Mantis arriors - Wrong side of the Badab rebellion. Sneaky marines?

The Knights of Gryphonne - Home world destroyed by 'nids. Crusading chapter now.

Ooh! Ooh! I play iron knights. They're easy to paint, look badass and their one paragraph of fluff is pretty cool. Plus, I've never, ever seen anyone else with the same army.

A few chapters have that Doom Skulls do. Of course who wants to be called the doom skulls or the Doom Legion?

I would disagree, the iron knights are much more heraldic and crusade-y than the DOOMSKULLDEATHEAGLES or whatever.

Ktulhut wrote:I would disagree, the iron knights ate much more heraldic and crusade-y than the DOOMSKULLDEATHEAGLES or whatever.

I completely agree.