Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2011/10/10 00:07:54
Subject: FEAR Replicas vs Any Army Battalion in real life.
I know this is kinda out of the blue but i got into an agruement at school of who would win All the Repilica Forces or the United States Marine Corp with no nukes.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2011/10/10 00:49:01
Subject: Re:FEAR Replicas vs Any Army Battalion in real life.
Mr. Self Destruct wrote:A full-scale military engagement would probably lead to us just bombing the ever-loving Christ out of them, so I'd say us.
since when did the marine corp have jets?
on a one on one fight in an urban place that is consider too valuable to bomb i think they would send in the marine corp for the firefights with tanks.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2011/10/10 01:01:17
Subject: Re:FEAR Replicas vs Any Army Battalion in real life.
Mr. Self Destruct wrote:A full-scale military engagement would probably lead to us just bombing the ever-loving Christ out of them, so I'd say us.
since when did the marine corp have jets?
on a one on one fight in an urban place that is consider too valuable to bomb i think they would send in the marine corp for the firefights with tanks.
Mr. Self Destruct wrote:A full-scale military engagement would probably lead to us just bombing the ever-loving Christ out of them, so I'd say us.
since when did the marine corp have jets? on a one on one fight in an urban place that is consider too valuable to bomb i think they would send in the marine corp for the firefights with tanks.
The Marine Corp does have jets..
When did the Marine corp have access to jets? In sheer firefights i am asking who would win.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/10 01:02:29
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2011/10/10 01:07:29
Subject: Re:FEAR Replicas vs Any Army Battalion in real life.
Battles are rarely just fire fights. Not at the battalion level. If you just want to talk about a fire fight, we're well outside the realm of plausibility (as if the whole psychic thing didn't already do that )
Who would win is a somewhat odd question. Obviously the super soldiers would win. They're super soldiers. The psychic link thing though could easily be a double edge sword. In conventional communications, the death of a leader hurts but someone can step in to take their place. What happens when the psychic commander dies?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/10/10 01:09:32
Battles are rarely just fire fights. Not at the battalion level. If you just want to talk about a fire fight, we're well outside the realm of plausibility (as if the whole psychic thing didn't already do that )
Who would win is a somewhat odd question. Obviously the super soldiers would win. They're super soldiers. The psychic link thing though could easily be a double edge sword. In conventional communications, the death of a leader hurts but someone can step in to take their place. What happens when the psychic commander dies?
they become less corodinated but pyschics can just possess another body of another soldier and use their body and regain control. A Repilica Force depending on who they serve is around 1,000.
Though what marine corp would automatically lose to the repilicas because they have alot helicopters and a very organized force. But the most interesting thing is that the only marine forces i know that would lose would be Australia and New Zealand lol.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2011/10/10 01:54:33
Subject: FEAR Replicas vs Any Army Battalion in real life.
Mr. Self Destruct wrote:A full-scale military engagement would probably lead to us just bombing the ever-loving Christ out of them, so I'd say us.
since when did the marine corp have jets?
on a one on one fight in an urban place that is consider too valuable to bomb i think they would send in the marine corp for the firefights with tanks.
And basically from here I realized you weren't really looking for an answer.
The Marine Air-Ground Task Force (MAGTF) is a term used by the United States Marine Corps to describe the principal organization for all missions across the range of military operations. MAGTFs are a balanced air-ground, combined arms task organization of Marine Corps forces under a single commander that is structured to accomplish a specific mission. The MAGTF was formalized by the publishing of Marine Corps Order 3120.3 in December of [[1963<The Marine Corps in the National Defense, MCDP 1-0>]]. It stated:
A Marine air-ground task force with separate air ground headquarters is normally formed for combat operations and training exercis es in which substantial combat forces of both Marine aviation and Marine ground units are included in the task organization of participating Marine forces.
The relevant text, bolded emphasis mine to answer your question. There is no purely infantry fight at any level in the USMC.
To answer "since when did the marine corp have jets?"
1947
Who would win. Probably the Replicas. They have inhuman reflexes, mobility, and accuracy. The USMC has tenacity, training, and a hatred of the Suck directed fruitfully at the enemies of the US. In the end the super soldiers win a ground fight to be decimated by combined forces and there you have it the Pyrrhic victory in hypothetical combat.
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2011/10/11 00:38:23
Subject: FEAR Replicas vs Any Army Battalion in real life.
1,500 Delta force trained/equivalent soldiers don't have much of a place in modern warfare.
In land battles kicking ass doesn't matter because<10% of all casualties are from guns. The other 90% comes from mortars, artillery, and air strikes. Putting out the most mortar fire, artillery fire, and air strikes is what wins battles, not small arms fire.
On the topic of USMC versus replicas the USMC has over 200k bodies versus 1,500 replicas, but more importantly than the overall numbers is the USMC has a vast superiority in artillery and air power.
Infantry are needed to occupy territory both friendly and hostile. Occupying hostile territory usually degenerates into counter insurgency. Insurgents avoid firefights in favor of mortar attacks, car bombs, or suicide bombs. Increasing the badass factor of troops doesn't make them any better against insurgents.
Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but refuse. They cling to the realm, or love, or the gods…illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is, but they’ll never know this. Not until it’s too late.
2011/10/11 04:21:26
Subject: Re:FEAR Replicas vs Any Army Battalion in real life.
Threads discussing something made up fighting something in real life are pointless and just end up with fanbois fighting with each other over absolutely nothing.
The soldiers can be as elite as you'd like, tanks are still tanks, artillery is still artillery, and bombers are still bombers. No-one is too elite to not go splat when a 155mm howitzer round lands on him.
When the other side has all manner of big toys to suppress your troops, deny their mobility and then slowly but surely pound them into non-existance, then you lose.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2011/10/11 06:10:24
Subject: Re:FEAR Replicas vs Any Army Battalion in real life.
Battles are rarely just fire fights. Not at the battalion level. If you just want to talk about a fire fight, we're well outside the realm of plausibility (as if the whole psychic thing didn't already do that )
Who would win is a somewhat odd question. Obviously the super soldiers would win. They're super soldiers. The psychic link thing though could easily be a double edge sword. In conventional communications, the death of a leader hurts but someone can step in to take their place. What happens when the psychic commander dies?
they become less corodinated but pyschics can just possess another body of another soldier and use their body and regain control. A Repilica Force depending on who they serve is around 1,000.
Though what marine corp would automatically lose to the repilicas because they have alot helicopters and a very organized force. But the most interesting thing is that the only marine forces i know that would lose would be Australia and New Zealand lol.
But, that would mean the Replica army would suicide...
sebster wrote:The soldiers can be as elite as you'd like, tanks are still tanks, artillery is still artillery, and bombers are still bombers. No-one is too elite to not go splat when a 155mm howitzer round lands on him.
When the other side has all manner of big toys to suppress your troops, deny their mobility and then slowly but surely pound them into non-existance, then you lose.
Mike O'Neil from John Ringo's Polseen War series survives a direct nuclear explosion. Eat that John Buckley!
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2011/10/11 08:16:57
Subject: Re:FEAR Replicas vs Any Army Battalion in real life.
AustonT wrote:Mike O'Neil from John Ringo's Polseen War series survives a direct nuclear explosion. Eat that John Buckley!
Oh John Ringo no!
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2011/10/12 04:36:23
Subject: Re:FEAR Replicas vs Any Army Battalion in real life.
Considering a teenage kid bolstered on nothing but Doritos and Mountain Dew can wipe out 500 of them, I figure a squad of marines can take them pretty easy.
2011/10/12 06:19:31
Subject: Re:FEAR Replicas vs Any Army Battalion in real life.
Amaya wrote:Threads discussing something made up fighting something in real life are pointless and just end up with fanbois fighting with each other over absolutely nothing.
Welcome to wargame discussions, I hope you enjoy your stay on the illustrious site that is dakkadakka.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
sebster wrote:The soldiers can be as elite as you'd like, tanks are still tanks, artillery is still artillery, and bombers are still bombers. No-one is too elite to not go splat when a 155mm howitzer round lands on him.
When the other side has all manner of big toys to suppress your troops, deny their mobility and then slowly but surely pound them into non-existance, then you lose.
Yep, that is what the US military is based on after all.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/12 06:24:24
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2011/10/12 12:48:43
Subject: Re:FEAR Replicas vs Any Army Battalion in real life.
MadEdric wrote:Considering an Genetic Expirement that went horriblely array and made the repilicias ineffective because of this and the main character was also a genetic expirement that had slow mo and faster reflexs than a real human who can wipe out 500 of them, I figure a squad of marines would die a horrible death.
fix'd We've already discussed this.
Anyway I completely agree the USMC would win.
But I feel like i am the only one here who played FEAR. :( Great game. Confusing in that if you ignore all those emails, phone messages or the laptops in FEAR 1 you will not know what is going on. Like the Replica Assassins would screw up alot of things.
Any other country that would face the Replicas (Except china, russia, european countries and israel) would most likely lose. Most notably australia, New Zealand, Singapore, thailand, Iran, Afghanstan, turkey, All of the African Countries would lose. and many others. 1,000 super soldiers with a variety of different toys like giant robots lots of helicopters and a pyschic commander that is 10x better than his soldiers is a bit of an overkill.
Also just relizied something. What would happen if there was such thing as a Repilica and we deployed them in the Streets in gang war to get rid of gang activity O.o.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/12 12:50:25
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2011/10/12 12:57:58
Subject: FEAR Replicas vs Any Army Battalion in real life.
FEAR replicas are onkly seen as a computer game opfor. So they deploy stupid move stupid and are there for the player to rack up a bodycount.
As they are written up: super soldiers who instantly obey psychically given orders from a competent and well informed strategist, they would be pretty much unstoppable.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/12 12:59:06
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
2011/10/12 20:50:38
Subject: Re:FEAR Replicas vs Any Army Battalion in real life.
MadEdric wrote:Considering an Genetic Expirement that went horriblely array and made the repilicias ineffective because of this and the main character was also a genetic expirement that had slow mo and faster reflexs than a real human who can wipe out 500 of them, I figure a squad of marines would die a horrible death.
fix'd
We've already discussed this.
Anyway I completely agree the USMC would win.
But I feel like i am the only one here who played FEAR. :( Great game. Confusing in that if you ignore all those emails, phone messages or the laptops in FEAR 1 you will not know what is going on. Like the Replica Assassins would screw up alot of things.
Any other country that would face the Replicas (Except china, russia, european countries and israel) would most likely lose. Most notably australia, New Zealand, Singapore, thailand, Iran, Afghanstan, turkey, All of the African Countries would lose. and many others. 1,000 super soldiers with a variety of different toys like giant robots lots of helicopters and a pyschic commander that is 10x better than his soldiers is a bit of an overkill.
Wow, talk about marginalizing first rate military forces.
http://www.globalfirepower.com/ Nice graphic demonstration of one sites opinion, but there's not much argument that would move more than the top 10 around.
How you put Turkey (6), Iran (12) first with Austrailia (24), Thailand (19) and also with Afghanistan (51) Singapore (41) as losers befuddles me.
How you picked winners like "european countries" like say Switzerland (34), Denmark (42), Belgium (49) or Israel (10) that land below your losers would probably also confuse me.
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2011/10/12 22:32:54
Subject: FEAR Replicas vs Any Army Battalion in real life.
http://www.globalfirepower.com/ Hmmm Sweden on place 28, Switzerland 34, Iraq 36, Finland 37, Norway 40.
Yeah right. How much casualties did the Iraq army cause? Some 5000-6000? And the country is still occupied.
And the replica forces wouldn't be that bad if their level is similar to the game. Only a different kind of approach would be in order.
2011/10/12 22:37:04
Subject: Re:FEAR Replicas vs Any Army Battalion in real life.
Considering the Replica got the stuffing knocked out of them by one man on not one, not two, but THREE seperate occasions, I'm going to say the Marines.
I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying.
2011/10/13 01:01:40
Subject: Re:FEAR Replicas vs Any Army Battalion in real life.
Asherian Command wrote:Any other country that would face the Replicas (Except china, russia, european countries and israel) would most likely lose. Most notably australia, New Zealand, Singapore, thailand, Iran, Afghanstan, turkey, All of the African Countries would lose. and many others. 1,000 super soldiers with a variety of different toys like giant robots lots of helicopters and a pyschic commander that is 10x better than his soldiers is a bit of an overkill.
Nah, as was already pointed out, 1,000 troops is still 1,000 troops.
And if they're putting helicopters and robots into the field that helps them, but how many of those 1,000 troops are then committed to maintenance and supply of those helicopters and other toys? How many have to be used to guard bases for those helicopters and robots? All of a sudden we're probably look at somewhere around 200 guys on the front line, and that's just not enough guys to do anything, really.
You can make the soldiers perfectly loyal and synchronised and whatever else, but there just plain old isn't that many of them.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Safor wrote:http://www.globalfirepower.com/
Hmmm Sweden on place 28, Switzerland 34, Iraq 36, Finland 37, Norway 40.
Yeah right. How much casualties did the Iraq army cause? Some 5000-6000? And the country is still occupied.
Which is comment on how flat the tail is on the curve showing national military expenditure, and how far the US is ahead of anyone else. It doesn't really mean anything in terms of th ability of any army to match it against a force of 1,000 super soldiers.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/13 01:04:29
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2011/10/13 03:31:30
Subject: FEAR Replicas vs Any Army Battalion in real life.
Globalfirepower defiantly isn't the end all be all of combat power. I'm sure Norway wouldn't just roll over and give up it's coasts if Iraq demanded it's surrender. BUT they have spent the time and effort to look at a number of factors to come up with those rankings.
Currently Iran is 12 and Iraq 36. In the Iran-Iraq war Iraq pounded Iran. So the poor showing of the Iraqi military against the US is especially notable in that we could reasonably assume that had Iraq not agitated the US into war, twice, they would still be superior to Iran.
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2011/10/13 04:22:43
Subject: FEAR Replicas vs Any Army Battalion in real life.
AustonT wrote:Globalfirepower defiantly isn't the end all be all of combat power.
It's a reasonable measure, the mistake people are making is in thinking the countries are relatively close to begin with, so that the number 2 country would have a chance against the number 1. The jump from country to country can be very extreme.
These aren't tennis rankings, where two players within a few rankings of each other are likely to produce an even contest, here it's a very extreme bell curve, with one ranking representing a massive difference in scope.
Currently Iran is 12 and Iraq 36. In the Iran-Iraq war Iraq pounded Iran.
Not really, while Iraq did very well in the early stages of the war, they were forced onto the defensive and defeat defeat looked more or less inevitable before they deployed chemical attacks.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2011/10/13 13:15:58
Subject: FEAR Replicas vs Any Army Battalion in real life.
Strategically speaking yes Iraq wasn't just losing they were losing by the numbers. But the war decimated the Iranian airforce and their armor. You would think that if Iraq had had even mildly competent leadership they could have won easily given their quantative advantage. But would the US and the UK have really backed Iraq if they thought they would WIN? or was a Phyrric victory what we hoped for all along.
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2011/10/13 13:44:10
Subject: FEAR Replicas vs Any Army Battalion in real life.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Kabal of the Void Dominator - now with more purple! 
4000+
6000+ Order. Unity. Obedience.
Thousand Sons 4000+
)
750 points
