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Hey dakka,

Quick question. So the local GW bunker is running a campaign, and we make our own "home territory" markers. I play marines, and was thinking of having an Strike Cruiser holding orbit to land troops (Using a Strike Cruiser from BFG and Tactile Marines from EPIC). But do Imperial ships enter the atmosphere to dispense units? Can they even enter a planets atmosphere?

Happygrunt wrote:Hey dakka,

Quick question. So the local GW bunker is running a campaign, and we make our own "home territory" markers. I play marines, and was thinking of having an Strike Cruiser holding orbit to land troops (Using a Strike Cruiser from BFG and Tactile Marines from EPIC). But do Imperial ships enter the atmosphere to dispense units? Can they even enter a planets atmosphere?

Yes and yes. How else would they get supplies there? Warp-magic?

KilroyKiljoy wrote:

Happygrunt wrote:Hey dakka,

Quick question. So the local GW bunker is running a campaign, and we make our own "home territory" markers. I play marines, and was thinking of having an Strike Cruiser holding orbit to land troops (Using a Strike Cruiser from BFG and Tactile Marines from EPIC). But do Imperial ships enter the atmosphere to dispense units? Can they even enter a planets atmosphere?

Yes and yes. How else would they get supplies there? Warp-magic?

But wouldn't their weight bring them down?

KilroyKiljoy wrote:

Happygrunt wrote:Hey dakka,

Quick question. So the local GW bunker is running a campaign, and we make our own "home territory" markers. I play marines, and was thinking of having an Strike Cruiser holding orbit to land troops (Using a Strike Cruiser from BFG and Tactile Marines from EPIC). But do Imperial ships enter the atmosphere to dispense units? Can they even enter a planets atmosphere?

Yes and yes. How else would they get supplies there? Warp-magic?

Shuttles and troop transports.
They can enter the atmosphere but they would rarely do it.

purplefood wrote:

KilroyKiljoy wrote:

Happygrunt wrote:Hey dakka,

Quick question. So the local GW bunker is running a campaign, and we make our own "home territory" markers. I play marines, and was thinking of having an Strike Cruiser holding orbit to land troops (Using a Strike Cruiser from BFG and Tactile Marines from EPIC). But do Imperial ships enter the atmosphere to dispense units? Can they even enter a planets atmosphere?

Yes and yes. How else would they get supplies there? Warp-magic?

Shuttles and troop transports.
They can enter the atmosphere but they would rarely do it.

It would be too much of a danger to enter the atomsphere because of orbital cannons etc and the fact that its an invasion yes?

Happygrunt wrote:

KilroyKiljoy wrote:

Happygrunt wrote:Hey dakka,

Quick question. So the local GW bunker is running a campaign, and we make our own "home territory" markers. I play marines, and was thinking of having an Strike Cruiser holding orbit to land troops (Using a Strike Cruiser from BFG and Tactile Marines from EPIC). But do Imperial ships enter the atmosphere to dispense units? Can they even enter a planets atmosphere?

Yes and yes. How else would they get supplies there? Warp-magic?

But wouldn't their weight bring them down?

They had to be built on some planet, right? Which means they'd have to be able to leave said planet once it was done being constructed. Also, they need to land somewhere eventually.

Asherian Command wrote:

purplefood wrote:

KilroyKiljoy wrote:

Happygrunt wrote:Hey dakka,

Quick question. So the local GW bunker is running a campaign, and we make our own "home territory" markers. I play marines, and was thinking of having an Strike Cruiser holding orbit to land troops (Using a Strike Cruiser from BFG and Tactile Marines from EPIC). But do Imperial ships enter the atmosphere to dispense units? Can they even enter a planets atmosphere?

Yes and yes. How else would they get supplies there? Warp-magic?

Shuttles and troop transports.
They can enter the atmosphere but they would rarely do it.

It would be too much of a danger to enter the atomsphere because of orbital cannons etc and the fact that its an invasion yes?

Ignoring that, it would simply be a touch too difficult to bother with and there is a simple solution.

Erm. Probably in very rare circumstances and only once. The Crimson Fists built a fortress out of one of thier Barges, which implies that it at least landed. Or that its massive bulk after being broken up was capable of being transported to the surface intact. Either way I doubt that a Grand Cruiser, Battle Ship, Strike Cruiser or Battle Barge is capable of creating an escape velocity since even in the void they seem to be lethargically slow and underpowered.

I like the idea of a battle barge pulling a BSG

Anyway, the ships would be constructed in orbit somewhere, the pieces being built somewhere and assembled in space, and they shouldn't need to land cos orbital dry docks.

No ships don't need to land they can be built in space, all their supplies is brought up they have too much mass. However collision coarse on some poor sucker is always an option

I'm currenlty reading Helsreach and a salamander strike crusier enters the atmosphere to drop off troops. But this would be a rare occucrance since it is very risky to "run" through an enemy's orbital defences, let alone all the planet based anti air weapons and aircraft.

Or you know, dragging a ship that is designed to be in a vacuum through an atmosphere. It's gonna get real hot, real fast. Anyone who's seen season 3 of BSG knows exactly what can happen.

None of the 40K ships appear aerodynamic enough to traverse an atmosphere. Maybe with Void Shields... maybe... but otherwise I think they'll be rather overheated.

Also, from an Abnett novel... I think one of Gaunt's, but I could be wrong... the plasma-discharge of the engines of Imperial starships can royally feth up the environment.

Well, Imperial ships are definitely able to withstand the heat from entry into an atmosphere. That's obvious based on their construction (Meant to hold proof against torpedoes of melta and other varieties which void shields cannot stop) and the simple fact of their mass...You know how big asteroids make it through our atmosphere? Being big.

Whether they could get back out........That's a different question. Maybe? Depending on the ship? I wonder if smaller escort class vessels or even destroyers or fast cruisers could be used as submarines on a oceanic world? Or close support if the planet in question had little orbital defense capability...

Starships are able to enter and exit the atmosphere of a planet. I can think of a few examples in the fluff. However, it is a rather rare situation since it brings up a few problems, such as the fact that the orbital defenses of the planet would enjoy a nice turkey shoot with a 3km long cruiser right in front of them, or the intense heat caused by re-entry putting the vessel's hull and voids on the brink of critical failure.

I can think of one particular example describing all the different problems of atmospheric entry for a large spaceship. During the combined space and land battle of Piraeus, during the closing years of the Badab War, the loyalist fleet had smashed the renegades asunder in a bitter naval engagement, but their ground troops found themselves trapped in a death zone on the moon of Piraeus itself.
The Exorcist Battle-Barge Redeemer was sent on an improvised emergency rescue of the troops bogged down on the moon below.
To avoid the worst of the moon's terrible orbital defenses, the battle-barge literally plunged as fast as it could into the moon's atmosphere. The tremendous heat caused by its entry literally ignited its voids from prow to stern, making it look like "a comet from the heavens". It then skimmed as low as it could to avoid enemy fire (still flying at extremely dangerous speeds), so low and so fast that it smashed the top of the habitation towers of the moon and created a massive pressure wave in front of it "smashing forests flat, toppling buildings and armored space marines alike in its fury".

Epic isn't it?

So yeah, you can make your ship enter a planet's atmosphere, but you need balls of steel to do that.

I don't remember the passage in Helsreach well enough, but I don't think the Salamanders' boat actually entered the atmosphere; it deployed its Marine contingent via drop pods.

I'm inclined to say that, the larger the ship, the less likely it is that it can enter atmosphere.

In the first book of the really old (and probably not canon anymore) Inquisition Wars trilogy, inquisitor Draco states that only ships up to a maximum size can enter the atmosphere and even set down on the planet itself.

In BFG fluff, When capital ships hit the surface of a planet they are in orbit with they are destroyed, but escorts are considered to have landed. The Strike Cruiser uses Drop Pods, Thunderhawks, Thunderhawk Transporters and Heavy Thunderhawk Transports to deliver forces and supplies.

Commissar Agro wrote:I'm currenlty reading Helsreach and a salamander strike crusier enters the atmosphere to drop off troops. But this would be a rare occucrance since it is very risky to "run" through an enemy's orbital defences, let alone all the planet based anti air weapons and aircraft.

Titanicus describes massive Imperial transports landing to deliver Titans to a planet's surface in moderate detail. Enormous transport ships are also depicted on the Codex: Imperial Guard cover, and the picture of Ursarkar Creed defeating the Volscani Cataphracts at Tyroc Fields.

I think maybe, MAYBE some of the bigger ships could enter the atmosphere, and land intact, perhaps losing void shields and a lot of hull. But there is no real way they are going to generate escape velocity, barring author fiat. They are simply too massive.

Full scale vessels can definitely enter the atmo, there are plenty of fluff instances of it, but as others have said its not common, there are smaller vessels dedicated to ferrying things from orbit to the ground and vice versa. Also worth noting that the atmospheric entry of such a large vessel is recorded in several parts of the fluff as causing mass climate change, etc.

Titanicus describes massive Imperial transports landing to deliver Titans to a planet's surface in moderate detail. Enormous transport ships are also depicted on the Codex: Imperial Guard cover, and the picture of Ursarkar Creed defeating the Volscani Cataphracts at Tyroc Fields.

I believe those transports are sub-orbital vessels designed, specifically, to ferry the Titan from the cruiser it's housed on to the planet where it is to walk. The IG deploy in thematically-similar drop-ships. Not as large as those that carry titans, perhaps, but designed for atmospheric and sub-orbital flight.

Imperial ships CAN enter a ships atmosphere, specifically low altitude, but it is a very risky maneuver in the face of enemy fire.

if there was no danger from ground to space weapons then it is concievable for it to happen, although ground to ground weaponry can also pose a threat.


it is much more likely for the ship to remain in near-orbit so it can remain relativly safe and still provide support in the form of resupply and orbital bombardment.

Unless the ship is specially treated to resist the high levels of heat, gak is going to go down, no matter whether it can stay moving in orbit or what have you. Its a massive object, moving at high speeds, suddenly coming into contact with friction. Fire EVERYWHERE.

With a size and mass like the huge cruisers in 40k have, I think they could enter the atmosphere, maybe even survive a landing maneuver intact (somewhat) thanks to shields and armour. But they wouldn't get back into space again. It's just too much to move. The engines are probably having a hard time already simply accelerating/steering those beasts through the vacuum of space with sufficient thrust to allow naval combat maneuvers, but dealing with planetary gravity on top of that? Phew.

Judging from a purely engineering / construction PoV ... when a ship like that isn't supposed to land (which it isn't, as it has shuttles and drop-pods) then it's far more efficient to tailor it to excel in space rather than trying to create a jack-of-all-trades, even if it would be possible (huge arrays of rare anti-grav generatoriums? I'm sure it'd be possible to make some technobabble up).

Just an opinion, though - I'll freely admit that my perception of landing capabilities (or inabilities) of uberhuge spaceships was shaped largely by Star Wars. Perhaps BFG would offer more insight?

According to The Chapters Due (a book that almost made me like the Ultramarines as a chapter!) Strike cruisers (which are basically just light cruisers, remember, and merely around what? 2.75 km long?) can enter the upper atmosphere but it err... Isn't a recommended maneuver, shall we say.

The Battle Barge, Caesar, also does it earlier in the book... Well, lets just say, in the next chapter, it talks about 'The survivors of the Caesar...'

Compel wrote:According to The Chapters Due (a book that almost made me like the Ultramarines as a chapter!) Strike cruisers (which are basically just light cruisers, remember, and merely around what? 2.75 km long?) can enter the upper atmosphere but it err... Isn't a recommended maneuver, shall we say.

The Battle Barge, Caesar, also does it earlier in the book... Well, lets just say, in the next chapter, it talks about 'The survivors of the Caesar...'

This guy has it spot on, although Strike cruisers can enter the atmosphere it is very risky.

Below is an extract from The Chapters Due, when the cruisers entered orbit. Great read.

Well, to be fair to the Ceaser...

Just as a point, the Acclamator (I and II) class of Assault Ships that we saw landed within Episode II of the Star Wars prequels were 752 meters long. It was also explicitly designed with this in mind as they were made to unload all the troops and equipment and then act as a command center during the invasion proper.

The smallest Star Destroyer class, the Victory is 900 meters long. It can't enter atmosphere without having something like a 90% chance of breaking to bits.

I can't find any good reference material right now, but aren't the smallest ships in 40k a kilometer at least?
I can't see it going too well unless something has been designed for it.

I guess my Battlebarge will just be in High Orbit then. Thanks for the help.

Good to see nice civil discussion on dakka.