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Alright, heres my question.

If a dark eldar raider moves 12 inches, can the unit inside move their six inches
after disembarking? Or has their movement ended when they disembark.

Pg 67, BRB: Diembarking - If the vehicles has moved (including pivoting on the spot), passengers may disembark but not move any further in that Movement phase.

But they could still fleet move, and then charge, correct?

They would be able to run, however, unless the vehicle was open-topped or had a special rule to allow it they would not be able to assault.

Lord_Osma wrote:But they could still fleet move, and then charge, correct?

Since the raider is open-topped, yes.

Lord_Osma wrote:But they could still fleet move, and then charge, correct?

There is no such thing as a 'fleet move'... Fleet is a special rule that allows a unit to assault on the same turn that they run.

insaniak wrote:

Lord_Osma wrote:But they could still fleet move, and then charge, correct?

There is no such thing as a 'fleet move'... Fleet is a special rule that allows a unit to assault on the same turn that they run.

I think he meant to ask...

But if they have fleet, they can still run in the shooting phase and then assault ?

Landrain wrote:

insaniak wrote:

Lord_Osma wrote:But they could still fleet move, and then charge, correct?

There is no such thing as a 'fleet move'... Fleet is a special rule that allows a unit to assault on the same turn that they run.

I think he meant to ask...

But if they have fleet, they can still run in the shooting phase and then assault ?

Yes as they are open topped vehicles, so they may move, Disembark, shoot or run, assault

So would that mean a raider, being open topped, can move it's full 12", have the unit inside disembark 2" to the front, run in their shooting phase (lets say they get a 6), and then assault 6", giving the unit inside a potential 26" assault range?

Also, I saw an opponent set up a raider on his maximum 12" pitched battle line towards me, but placed it sideways. In his first turn, he pivoted towards me, then moved twelve inches, disembarked, ran (6), and assaulted. The pivot of the raider gave him an extra +/- 3". Is that all legit, for a damn near 30" assault range??

Aipoch wrote:So would that mean a raider, being open topped, can move it's full 12", have the unit inside disembark 2" to the front, run in their shooting phase (lets say they get a 6), and then assault 6", giving the unit inside a potential 26" assault range?

Also, I saw an opponent set up a raider on his maximum 12" pitched battle line towards me, but placed it sideways. In his first turn, he pivoted towards me, then moved twelve inches, disembarked, ran (6), and assaulted. The pivot of the raider gave him an extra +/- 3". Is that all legit, for a damn near 30" assault range??

Completely Legit.

When playing against DE you probably shouldn't push that 12" line unless it's completely necesary.

It shouldn't be legal - you're moving farther than your allotted 12". But it's normal for vehicles to do it, and people bitch when MCs try to do it.

rigeld2 wrote:It shouldn't be legal - you're moving farther than your allotted 12". But it's normal for vehicles to do it, and people bitch when MCs try to do it.

Shouldn't but pivoting doesn't count as moving except for trying to make an assault out of said vehicle.

So it is legit.

Pivoting doesn't have to cost movement. It should not also add movement. And it is.

rigeld2 wrote:Pivoting doesn't have to cost movement. It should not also add movement. And it is.

That is what happens with a Rectangle shaped object, because you pivot from the center. Nothing too broken about it, just how the game is

Aipoch wrote:So would that mean a raider, being open topped, can move it's full 12", have the unit inside disembark 2" to the front, run in their shooting phase (lets say they get a 6), and then assault 6", giving the unit inside a potential 26" assault range?

27", don't forget the width of a base.

rigeld2 wrote:Pivoting doesn't have to cost movement. It should not also add movement. And it is.

It doesnt add movement, but it does alter the displacement of the front of the vehicle

Luckily vehicle movement only cares about the former.

It is adding distance to the move. In other words, you get farther from your start point if you start sideways and pivot to face the direction you want to go than if you were just already facing that direction.

And like I said - it should be illegal, but isn't. It's just hypocracy when a non-vehicle on a large oval base tries to do the exact same thing and people complain.

rigeld2 wrote:It is adding distance to the move. In other words, you get farther from your start point if you start sideways and pivot to face the direction you want to go than if you were just already facing that direction.

And like I said - it should be illegal, but isn't. It's just hypocracy when a non-vehicle on a large oval base tries to do the exact same thing and people complain.

I've never known/seen anyone to complain personally. Again though alot of people don't play MC's on the Large oval bases. Beings nids took a minor dive

nosferatu1001 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:Pivoting doesn't have to cost movement. It should not also add movement. And it is.

It doesnt add movement, but it does alter the displacement of the front of the vehicle

Luckily vehicle movement only cares about the former.

Except movement and displacement are synonymous.

Theyre not in 40k. Otherwise you couldnt move 12" forwards, 12" back and be moving flat out - which we know to be true. This is further reinforced by the Assault rules and the Turboboost rules, which reinforce this concept.

Movement is a well defined term within 40k with a different meaning to the standard English definition, displacement is not.

Aipoch wrote:
Also, I saw an opponent set up a raider on his maximum 12" pitched battle line towards me, but placed it sideways. In his first turn, he pivoted towards me, then moved twelve inches, disembarked, ran (6), and assaulted. The pivot of the raider gave him an extra +/- 3". Is that all legit, for a damn near 30" assault range??

completely legal by 40K rules...

As far as being in the spirit of the rules?

Nope.

It is an exploit of the current poorly written rules.

And by current you mean "part of the current rules [ii]since 1998[/i]" yes?

Its totally within the spirit of the rules, as the studio is well aware of this.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:

Aipoch wrote:So would that mean a raider, being open topped, can move it's full 12", have the unit inside disembark 2" to the front, run in their shooting phase (lets say they get a 6), and then assault 6", giving the unit inside a potential 26" assault range?

27", don't forget the width of a base.

Bases are 25mm, which is only 0.984...".

So, 26.984...". If you're 27" away, you're safe.

26" of movement, plus ~2" for pivot hijinks, plus 12" for a deployment zone...

You didn't want to actually use your deployment zone, did you?

Whoa, what's with this move forward 12" and then move back 12" and count as moving flat out? I thought the rules specified you must move over 12" and up to your maximum move away from your starting point to be considered moving flat out? And I also thought there was some stipulation on turning while moving flat out. Does it have to be done in a straight line or can you go any which way you please? Seem's kind of...uninspired I can have my model sit right where it is and give it a four up cover save just by saying it moved flat out...forward and back...

Grakmar wrote:

MasterSlowPoke wrote:

Aipoch wrote:So would that mean a raider, being open topped, can move it's full 12", have the unit inside disembark 2" to the front, run in their shooting phase (lets say they get a 6), and then assault 6", giving the unit inside a potential 26" assault range?

27", don't forget the width of a base.

Bases are 25mm, which is only 0.984...".

So, 26.984...". If you're 27" away, you're safe.

Do you regularly measure distances with a device that is precise to the half millimeter?

Aipoch wrote:Whoa, what's with this move forward 12" and then move back 12" and count as moving flat out? I thought the rules specified you must move over 12" and up to your maximum move away from your starting point to be considered moving flat out? And I also thought there was some stipulation on turning while moving flat out. Does it have to be done in a straight line or can you go any which way you please? Seem's kind of...uninspired I can have my model sit right where it is and give it a four up cover save just by saying it moved flat out...forward and back...

Yes you may stay in the same spot and Claim moving XX inches to gain a cover save from flat out.

However, When it comes to assaulting you'd have moved 0" and would be auto-hit.

Aipoch wrote:Whoa, what's with this move forward 12" and then move back 12" and count as moving flat out? I thought the rules specified you must move over 12" and up to your maximum move away from your starting point to be considered moving flat out? And I also thought there was some stipulation on turning while moving flat out. Does it have to be done in a straight line or can you go any which way you please? Seem's kind of...uninspired I can have my model sit right where it is and give it a four up cover save just by saying it moved flat out...forward and back...

No such rules exist. You are getting confused between Flat Out and Turboboost - turboboost requires you to be a certain distance away from your starting point, Flat Out does not.

There is NO requrement to move in a straight line for either TB or Flatout. None.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Theyre not in 40k. Otherwise you couldnt move 12" forwards, 12" back and be moving flat out - which we know to be true. This is further reinforced by the Assault rules and the Turboboost rules, which reinforce this concept.

Movement is a well defined term within 40k with a different meaning to the standard English definition, displacement is not.

Yep, flat out allows you to get a cover save, because you are moving at 'high speed' and 'are very difficult to hit'.

Unless of course you wind up in close combat with it. Abstracts. Meh.

Kind of funny how turbo-boosting and 'normal' vehicle movement doesn't work out that way.

My personal understanding of the rules presented on page 57 of the base rule book regarding vehicle movement is that a vehicle may only move forward or reverse not side to side. If this understanding is correct then that means that a vehicle may not move sideways then pivot to face the direction it moved in to gain inches to disembark. This is my understanding of the rules and the wording presented on page 57 regarding movement of vehicles.