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My roommate bought the new codex and we've both skimmed through it (he's starting an army). We were discussing ways of killing/getting around some of their special abilites and I began to think about my GK Libbys and Warp Rift. Now, the question is, if they fail the Ini test and they are removed from play, can they use WBB? Sounds like a dumb question but figured I'd post it and get others thoughts in case it comes up in a game.

I assume you mean the new version of it (reanimation protocols? )

As far as i'm aware, and it's possible that i'm wrong, once you have been 'removed from play' nothing you have/can do can help you.

I would say yes because the RP takes effect once the model has been removed as a casualty.

They get the Reanimation Protocols roll because the models are Removed as Casualties. Page 25, Warp Rift in the GK Codex.

Eternal Loser wrote:They get the Reanimation Protocols roll because the models are Removed as Casualties. Page 25, Warp Rift in the GK Codex.

Ah alright, don't have my codex here in front of me.

If you are removed from Play (JotWW, etc) then you do NOT get RP. If you are removed as a casualty then you DO get to use RP

RP is NOT A SAVE

Eternal Loser wrote:They get the Reanimation Protocols roll because the models are Removed as Casualties. Page 25, Warp Rift in the GK Codex.

This is correct, failing the Int. test means its removed from play as a casualty, therefor you get the RP

nosferatu1001 wrote:If you are removed from Play (JotWW, etc) then you do NOT get RP. If you are removed as a casualty then you DO get to use RP

RP is NOT A SAVE

This is wrong for the reason stated above.

haroon wrote:This is wrong for the reason stated above.

No, JotWW does not remove from play as a casualty. It simply removes the model from play. Things that are triggered on casualty are not triggered by JotWW.

rigeld2 wrote:

haroon wrote:This is wrong for the reason stated above.

No, JotWW does not remove from play as a casualty. It simply removes the model from play. Things that are triggered on casualty are not triggered by JotWW.

100% Correct

rigeld2 wrote:

haroon wrote:This is wrong for the reason stated above.

No, JotWW does not remove from play as a casualty. It simply removes the model from play. Things that are triggered on casualty are not triggered by JotWW.

Based on the evidence on page 25 of the gk codex i disagree.

haroon wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

haroon wrote:This is wrong for the reason stated above.

No, JotWW does not remove from play as a casualty. It simply removes the model from play. Things that are triggered on casualty are not triggered by JotWW.

Based on the evidence on page 25 of the gk codex i disagree.

JotWW is not Warp Rift.

JotWW prevents RP from occurring, since it removes models from play. Warp Rift allows RP, since it removes models as casualties. To exaggerate greatly, JotWW makes models *poof* and disappear, while Warp Rift actually kills/maims models like regular forms of damage.

Its clear to me that if you are reomved from play by anything, as apposed to being a casualty, then you cannot come back.

Look at it logicly, if your sucked in to the warp (as per warp rift) no amount of repair can bring you back.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

haroon wrote:This is wrong for the reason stated above.

No, JotWW does not remove from play as a casualty. It simply removes the model from play. Things that are triggered on casualty are not triggered by JotWW.

100% Correct

Also if "Things that are triggered on casualty are not triggered by JotWW" If that were the case you would not have to take a morale check (brb pg 44) for suffering 25% casualties from JOTWW. However you do, therefor they are casualties, therefor you get the RP!

haroon wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

haroon wrote:This is wrong for the reason stated above.

No, JotWW does not remove from play as a casualty. It simply removes the model from play. Things that are triggered on casualty are not triggered by JotWW.

100% Correct

Also if "Things that are triggered on casualty are not triggered by JotWW" If that were the case you would not have to take a morale check (brb pg 44) for suffering 25% casualties from JOTWW. However you do, therefor they are casualties, therefor you get the RP!

Sorry, but you are wrong. JOTWW and any other ability that removes models from play rather than wounding them ignores Reanimation Protocols. They can't repair themselves if they don't exist anymore.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:

haroon wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

haroon wrote:This is wrong for the reason stated above.

No, JotWW does not remove from play as a casualty. It simply removes the model from play. Things that are triggered on casualty are not triggered by JotWW.

100% Correct

Also if "Things that are triggered on casualty are not triggered by JotWW" If that were the case you would not have to take a morale check (brb pg 44) for suffering 25% casualties from JOTWW. However you do, therefor they are casualties, therefor you get the RP!

Sorry, but you are wrong. JOTWW and any other ability that removes models from play rather than wounding them ignores Reanimation Protocols. They can't repair themselves if they don't exist anymore.

My comments are directed at xcalibur because he actually read the rule and knows what he is talking about. You however do not, under warp rift it says "remove the model AS A CASUALTY" Please do not contribute if you dont bother to read.

There's a big difference between "Removed as a Casualty" and "Removed from play". I'm meaning in a more general OP sense, since the topic is called "WBB vs Removed from play". Who really cares about Warp Rift? It says that it removes them as a casualty, Reanimation Protocols says that anyone removed as a casualty can come back on a 5+. It's very cut and dry. What is possibly debatable is JOTWW and other "Removed from play" powers.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:There's a big difference between "Removed as a Casualty" and "Removed from play".

What are you talking about, are you now agreeing that similar abilites like warp rfit give you the RP roll?

My main point is that if something is removed from play via JOTWW it counts as a causality. If it were just miraculously removed from play as you are all suggesting then you would not have to take a moral test for suffering 25% casualties. Also you wouldn't get any kill points or victory points as it wasn't destroyed, it just got removed from play.

haroon wrote:

Andilus Greatsword wrote:

haroon wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

haroon wrote:This is wrong for the reason stated above.

No, JotWW does not remove from play as a casualty. It simply removes the model from play. Things that are triggered on casualty are not triggered by JotWW.

100% Correct

Also if "Things that are triggered on casualty are not triggered by JotWW" If that were the case you would not have to take a morale check (brb pg 44) for suffering 25% casualties from JOTWW. However you do, therefor they are casualties, therefor you get the RP!

Sorry, but you are wrong. JOTWW and any other ability that removes models from play rather than wounding them ignores Reanimation Protocols. They can't repair themselves if they don't exist anymore.

My comments are directed at xcalibur because he actually read the rule and knows what he is talking about. You however do not, under warp rift it says "remove the model AS A CASUALTY" Please do not contribute if you dont bother to read.

Man you don't read do you, JoTWW does not remove models as casualties, it just removes them from play.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote: Man you don't read do you, JoTWW does not remove models as casualties, it just removes them from play.

I am aware of that please refer to the previous post about my main point.

Edit: Just look at the rules on page 44 of the rule book, under "Casualties" its clear that losing models=casualties

BGB p.24 - You suffer casualties if a model loses its last wound. Warp Rift is an exception to this it seems, but it is treated as causing casualties instead of simply removing from play.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think they aren't as clear about it though because removed from play abilities are rare.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:BGB p.24 - You suffer casualties if a model loses its last wound. Warp Rift is an exception to this it seems, but it is treated as causing casualties instead of simply removing from play.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think they aren't as clear about it though because removed from play abilities are rare.

I think that is just referring to one way of removing casualties. If you think JOTWW does not cause casualties you would have to agree you dont need to take a moral check for taking 25% casualties (pg 44) caused by jotww right?

JotWW does NOT remove you "as a casualty" therefore does NOT trigger RP

nosferatu1001 wrote:JotWW does NOT remove you "as a casualty" therefore does NOT trigger RP

Therefor no morale check is needed, and no killpoint is awarded.

Wrong. P91 says you're wrong on KP.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Wrong. P91 says you're wrong on KP.

Wrong, Pg 91 supports it, It wasn't destroyed it was removed from play. Destroyed does not equal removed from play.

Wrong, Destroyed means "doesnt exist any longer", if you disagree some rules to support that destroyed = = removed from play as a casualty, if you please

Do you see the difference between Removed from Play and Removed from Play as a Casualty yet?

nosferatu1001 wrote:Wrong, Destroyed means "doesnt exist any longer", if you disagree some rules to support that destroyed = = removed from play as a casualty, if you please

Do you see the difference between Removed from Play and Removed from Play as a Casualty yet?

er"

If you follow that logic, that "destroyed means doesn't exist any longer" then you must conclude from the rules on page 44 and on page 24 that casualty means "remove from play". So thanks for proving my point.

What? Care to explain your train of thought on that?

Destroyed is a catch all term for - a unit that was deployed no longer exists. If you TRULY think that desrtoyed == removed from play as a casualty then your argument is laughable, as Vehicles would never be worth a Kill Point.

Removed from play is NOT the same as Removed from play as a casualty. Never has been and poor arguments wont make them the same.

nosferatu1001 wrote:What? Care to explain your train of thought on that?

Destroyed is a catch all term for - a unit that was deployed no longer exists. If you TRULY think that desrtoyed == removed from play as a casualty then your argument is laughable, as Vehicles would never be worth a Kill Point.

Removed from play is NOT the same as Removed from play as a casualty. Never has been and poor arguments wont make them the same.

Clearly we are not going to convince each other this way, lets try not to make this personal with insults. Let me just ask you this one question, Do you think you have to take a morale check if you take 25% casualties on a unit from jotww?

So, do you think Destroyed == Removed from Play as a Casualty? You never answered that, nor did you explain your train of thought. You cant just assume we'll never meet on this, especially when you make leaps that you dont explain.

Yes, you DO take a morale check. See first line page 44:

page 44 wrote:A unit losing 25% or more of its models....

Nothing about "remove from play as a casualty"