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Hey e'rybody, This may be a stupid question but are IG Platoon Command Squads actually needed to field squads of infantry? I read through the Guard Codex and the example force organisation chart shows one HQ choice and two troop choices. Would it be legal (albeit unadvised) to feild one Company Command Squad and two Infantry Squads without the PCS?
Thanks in advance!

P.S. Just a side note I understand that Platoons count as one troop choice on the FOC, I just don't have the resources to put that many models on the table right now.




Edit: Just Realized I posted in the wrong place.

Yeah, unfortunately they are required if you are fielding a platoon, they can have standard which is good though.


If you dont have the recourses to use the PCS, use veterans and a Company command squad, they dont need a PCS.

That is correct. Veteran squads and penal legion squads are available by 10s as seperate troops choices. All 'normal' guardsmen are in platoons, which are minimum 25 men (2x10 infantry and 5 in the PCS) and count as a single troops choice.

This does mean you need at least 50 guardsmen to fulfill the standard troops requirements unless you use at least some of the aforementioned veterans/penal legionairres. It is not legal to field a CCS and 2 seperate infantry squads.

Are the veterans a worthwhile investment? I.E. Will they be enough to sway the battle in my favor without the 55+ Guardsman in a platoon?
Btw thanks for the answer dajobe.


Edit: And thanks to you I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly!

Depends on the rest of your list. Can you post a full list?

blobbed infantry count as a single troop choice?

Wouldnt a squad be a troop slot in and of itself, even if being commanded by the same PCS?

no, veterans and penal troops are because they're not part of a platoon.
A platoon is one troop choice, wether it just has PCC and two squads( the minimum) or 5 squads, two special weapons squads, 5 heavy weapon squads and a conscript squad. They're both ONE troop choice.

Guardlard01 wrote:Are the veterans a worthwhile investment? I.E. Will they be enough to sway the battle in my favor without the 55+ Guardsman in a platoon?
Btw thanks for the answer dajobe.


Edit: And thanks to you I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly!

All veteran lists are probably some of the most competitive armies in the entire game.

BS4 and can take up to 3 special weapons and a cheap transport with good guns to boot? Yes please.

Veteran Squad - x3 meltaguns, Chimera w/ Hull Heavy Flamer + Multilaser - 155
- Kill Tanks, Kills Monsters, Can also kill hordes with the heavy flamer, and decently survivable for dirt cheap

Veteran Squad - x3 plasmaguns, Chimera w/ Hull Heavy Flamer + Multilaser - 170
- Murders heavy infantry, monsters, and light vehicles

Veteran Squad - x3 Grenade Launchers, Chimera w/ Hull Heavy Flamer + Multilaser - 140 and throw in a Primaris Psyker for another 70
- That is a ton of mobile S6 shots you can throw out on the move.

Well Joey I was going to use:

HQ
x1 CCS
-Commander w/ bolt pistol
-Vet w/Medi-pack
-Vet w/Vox-Caster
-Vet w/Heavy-Flamer
-Carapace armor on all
Troops
x2 Veteran Squads( I have no clue what to equip them with)
-Both with Commissars
x1 Heavy weapons squad w/Heavy Bolter and two missle launchers

Dedicated Transport
x1 Chimera w/Dozer

Edit: Thanks for the suggestion Nungunz
P.S. This is just me taking a shot in the dark here.

Guardlard01 wrote:Well Joey I was going to use:

HQ
x1 CCS
-Commander w/ bolt pistol
-Vet w/Medi-pack
-Vet w/Vox-Caster
-Vet w/Heavy-Flamer
-Carapace armor on all

That's a very expensive squad that isn't all that good. Medipack is pretty much a waste of points. 5 T3 5+ dudes aren't going to live long and with T3 it's easy to negate FnP. Vox only works if the veterans have a vox as well. Honestly it's not that useful as orders don't make or break a game (they are nice, though). And finally Heavy Flamers are waaaaaaaay too expensive. They aren't that much better than flamers for 4 times the cost....plus the enemy will just avoid the squad and/or shoot them to death.

Carapace can work....but I'd rather take a chimera (if you need to be mobile) or camo-cloaks (if stationary).

Also remember that these guys are BS4....make use of that.

Troops
x2 Veteran Squads( I have no clue what to equip them with)
-Both with Commissars
x1 Heavy weapons squad w/Heavy Bolter and two missle launchers

The heavy weapons squad is illegal....they can only be part of platoons. You can replace two guardsmen with a single heavy weapon team, though.

What you give them depends on how you use them. You probably won't be seeing any AV14 (though you might and AV13 is a definite possiblity). I'd take one squad with melta and put them in a chimera at least (or even just give the CCS all melta + a chimera)

Otherwise Autocannon + x3 grenade launchers can work for a stationary squad....maybe even autocannons/lascannon + x3 plasma.

In the long run I advise against stationary veterans squads, though....their too useful to waste sitting around in your backfield....let platoons do that job.

Dedicated Transport
x1 Chimera w/Dozer

Ditch the dozer and you're good. I'd honestly take at least two if possible. For vehicle to be any useful you really need some saturation or the enemy can focus all their AT fire on one vehicle. At 500 points 2-3 chimeras is plenty.



For example here is a 500 point list I run:

CCS - x3 GL, Chimera - 120
Vets - x3 Melta, Chimera - 155
Vets - x3 Melta, Chimera - 155
Scout Sentinel - 35
Scout Sentinel - 35

Guardlard01 wrote:Well Joey I was going to use:

HQ
x1 CCS
-Commander w/ bolt pistol
-Vet w/Medi-pack
-Vet w/Vox-Caster
-Vet w/Heavy-Flamer
-Carapace armor on all
Troops
x2 Veteran Squads( I have no clue what to equip them with)
-Both with Commissars
x1 Heavy weapons squad w/Heavy Bolter and two missle launchers

Dedicated Transport
x1 Chimera w/Dozer

Edit: Thanks for the suggestion Nungunz
P.S. This is just me taking a shot in the dark here.

drop the med pack. Cant take comissars with vet squads unfortunately, i do love them. I would put one missile launcher in each vet squad as you cant have a HWS all on its own and the HB with the CCS. If you have them give 3 of the vets melta guns, if not, at least give them demolitions(melta bombs and demo charge). Would do a list, but have 2 midterms and a term paper due this week. I am sure someone will be able to help you more though, sorry.

Only issue is that Vet squads don't get Comissars but they won't last long enough to really need them that much...

If you really wanted to you could call one of your comissars a lord comissar and put him with a vet squad. That might work decently

Ah I had no idead heavy weapons squads had to be attached to a platoon! Much thanks to dajobe and Nungunz (thanks for the army list, I was way off with my last one). But is it true that commisars can't operate with vets?

Guardlard01 wrote:But is it true that commisars can't operate with vets?

Yup. Check the codex entry for veterans. They don't have the option of taking a commissar.

Aw man . Its probably for the best though, vets would probably "accidentally" friendly fire them anyway.

As I said, take the comissar as a lord comissar and attach him to a vet squad, he takes up a HQ slot then though.

Ah I see...

Still leaves one for the CCS though, I would put a standard in with the CCS too, lets your guys retake leadership and pinning tests within 12 inches.

So Lord commissar + CCS + 2/3 squads of vets with dedicated transports and two scout sentinels?

Well a Lord Commissar with power weapon/plasma pistol is 90 points. That's a lot for a melée unit that you probably won't get to use (I wonder if there are any assault units with initiative higher than 3? hmm).

Well it looks like Marbo, Kell and and Deddogg have initiatives higher that that but I wasn't going for an assault theme. Oh and please tell me if Im off in anything I say, Ive just recently started the gaming side of 40k (Ive been into the lore and modelling for years but just recently wanted to try my hand at gaming).

Guardlard01 wrote:So Lord commissar + CCS + 2/3 squads of vets with dedicated transports and two scout sentinels?

You may not have the points to pull of a decent list with that. Honestly the Lord Commmissar isn't needed, but if you want him for fluff...sure, why not. He's best used in lists with lots of heavy weapon squads to boost their leadership and stop them from running away (HWS are very, very easy to kill and force them to flee...even if they're in cover).

The list I posted is just one example. IG has a lot of options that work very well.

Personally I really love vehicles and being very mobile. I find hordes of infantry and gunline lists incredibly boring.

Nungunz wrote:Personally I really love vehicles and being very mobile. I find hordes of infantry and gunline lists incredibly boring.

And incredibly expensive...
I'm not a big fan of swarming either (mabye Guard was a bad choice ) but I really like the Guard's Fluff and general attitude towards a galaxy bent on rending their flesh!

I wasnt saying that the Lord comissar was good, it just sounded like he wanted a comissar in his army. And I proposed a way that works


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Guard definitely arent the cheapest army, if your looking for cheap run draigo wing. less than 30 models can be 2500 points and good.

Yeah dajobe, I really like the fluff surrounding commisars. Cold hearted calculating servants of the Empire willing to bust a cap in a coward without thinking twice. Its very.....Russian.

I'd be ready to bet that most Commissars don't use draconian measures to ensure their troops obey their orders - thats a very quick route to the grave as you not only have enemies in front of you, but you have a Regiment of enemies behind you. Ever so easy to have an accident with a lasgun or a frag grenade...

"The Commissar sir? Oh it's tragic, sir, tragic. See, we was moving 'cross the ground an' he was handlin' a fragga, y'see, an' it must have gone off 'cause there was this explosion an' he was gone. Yes sir, the lads all saw it sir."

The best way to look at Commissars, I think, is that they're very inspirational leaders who lead from the front & by example. When those methods don't work, they resort to draconian methods, i.e. summary execution, but that will be a last resort especially if the Sergeant/Officer is a popular one because then the Commissar will most likely have an array of weapons pointing at them. Sometimes it may be necessary to execute a soldier who is refusing to obey orders and their insubordination is holding up the advance/putting their comrades in danger, so out comes the laspistol/bolt pistol and... well, it proves that the Commissar means business.

In some Regiments Commissars don't need to perform summary execution. With Krieg the infraction rate is so low, the odds on Krieg soldiers running away almost zero, the Commissars are there to reign in the excess zeal of Korpsmen who might try and sacrifice their lives for their Emperor pointlessly. They also act as liason between the single-minded of purpose Krieg officers, to whom soldiers are merely resources to be used to break down the enemies forces (just so long as more of theirs die than yours), and the rest of the brigade/army/to other Regiments.
Krieg aren't that popular amongst the Guard Regiments.

Ah, commissars.

The Imperial Guard. The best army in 40k for taking out more of itself than the enemy can

One day....one day I will build the self-destructive IG army - plasma guns, commissars, Nork Deadog, psykers, etc.

Sparks_Havelock thats a clever way to look at the commisars, thanks for the post. As a side note, am I to assume you use the Death Korps as your army?


Edit: CadianCommander, I'm not sure I agree with that but thank you for the post anyway

Guardlard01 wrote:Sparks_Havelock thats a clever way to look at the commisars, thanks for the post. As a side note, am I to assume you use the Death Korps as your army?

Thank goodness for that! I went back and looked at it and thought "Why in the name the God-Emperor did you post that?! What relevance does it have?". I do indeed collect Krieg, the only 'standard' GW army I've ever actually liked, beyond Mordians, Tallarn & Valhallans.