US refuses to apologise for Pakistan air strike that killed 24 soldiers

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**Jihadin**

US refuses to apologise for Pakistan air strike that killed 24 soldiers

Gen Martin Dempsey, the most senior figure in the US military has refused to apologise for an air strike at the weekend that killed 24 Pakistan soldiers.

A policeman stands guard near the Pakistan-Afghanistan border in Chaman November 28, 2011 Photo: REUTER
By Rob Crilly, Islamabad, Ben Farmer in Kabul and Chris Irvine

9:00AM GMT 29 Nov 2011
Gen Dempsey, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, spoke as Pakistan closed its borders to Nato convoys supplying international troops in Afghanistan.
The Pakistani army claimed the attack lasted almost two hours, and that it continued even after commanders on the ground contacted Nato to ask what was going on.
In an interview with ITV News, Gen Dempsey said he telephoned the Chief of Pakistan’s army General Ashfaq Kayani and “expressed regret”
“They have reason to be furious that they have 24 soldiers dead and that what killed them was the ordinance of a partner,” he said.
Asked if there was anything apologise for however, Gen Dempsey said: “absolutely not”.
Gen Dempsey also admitted that the US relationship with Pakistan, viewed from the outside is “the worst it’s ever been”.
The White House last night said President Barack Obama was taking the incident “very seriously” and wanted to get to the bottom of the “tragedy”.
Closing the crossings will halt almost half of supplies for the Nato-led force, including British troops.
Accounts differ about what happened in the early hours of Saturday when American aircraft attacked two border posts inside Pakistan, but the fallout is clear: a deep diplomatic crisis threatening cooperation against Taliban and al-Qaeda militants.
Pakistan immediately shut its borders to convoys carrying fuel and supplies and said it was reviewing all military and diplomatic ties with the US and Nato.
Rehman Malik, Pakistan’s interior minister, said: “Nato forces should respect the feelings of the Pakistani nation.” He added that trucks and tankers already in the country would not be held back.
Although the US is transporting more of its equipment, food and fuel through central Asia in an attempt to reduce Pakistan’s leverage, the route through Karachi still accounts for 49 per cent of supplies destined for the 140,000-strong foreign force.
The International Security Assistance Force have played down the impact of closing the road. Lieutenant Gregory Keeley, a spokesman in Kabul, said: “ISAF uses a vast supply and distribution network to ensure coalition forces remain well-stocked in order to carry out their assigned mission across Afghanistan.”
Both sides blamed the other for the air strike. Western and Afghan officials say the raid was a response to firing from the Pakistani side of the border.
Pakistani soldiers wounded in the attack have told The Daily Telegraph there was no militant activity in the area.
Maj Gen Athar Abbas, an army spokesman, said the troops were victims of unprovoked aggression, and that commanders urged Nato to “get this fire to cease”. “Somehow it continued,” he said

I bet two extra large duncan donut coffee that ROE was not violated

**Vulcan**

Let's see. The SINGLE most wanted terrorist in the world... was found hiding less than a mile from a major Pakistani military facility. Hmm.

Does anyone else get the feeling Islamabad was never really on our side in this whole thing?

**Kanluwen**

WASHINGTON — NATO forces may have been lured into attacking friendly Pakistani border posts in a calculated maneuver by the Taliban, according to preliminary U.S. military reports on the deadliest friendly fire incident with Pakistan since the Afghanistan war began.

The NATO airstrike killed 24 Pakistani soldiers over the weekend in an apparent case of mistaken identity, The Associated Press has learned.

A joint U.S.-Afghan patrol was attacked by the Taliban early Saturday morning. While pursuing the enemy in the poorly marked border area, the patrol seems to have mistaken one of the Pakistan troop outposts for a militant encampment and called in a NATO gunship and attack helicopters to open fire.

U.S. officials say the reports suggest the Taliban may have deliberately tried to provoke a cross-border firefight that would set back fragile partnerships between the U.S. and NATO forces and Pakistani soldiers at the ill-defined border. Officials described the records on condition of anonymity to discuss classified matters.

The incident has sent the perpetually difficult U.S.-Pakistan relationship into a tailspin.

On Tuesday, Pakistani Gen. Ashfaq Nadeem called the incident a "deliberate act of aggression" and said it was "next to impossible that NATO" did not know it was attacking Pakistani forces.

Gen. James Mattis, head of U.S. Central Command, announced Monday he has appointed Brig. Gen. Stephen Clark, an Air Force special operations officer, to lead the probe of the incident, and said he must include input from the NATO-led forces in Afghanistan, as well as representatives from the Afghan and Pakistani governments.

Nadeem said the Pakistani army had little faith that any investigation will get to the bottom of the incident and may not cooperate with it. He said other joint inquiries into at least two other similar — if less deadly — incidents over the last three years had "come to nothing."

Nadeem made the remarks during a briefing with Pakistani journalists and defense analysts in army headquarters. Foreign media were not invited, but two attendees relayed Nadeem's comments to The Associated Press.

According to the U.S. military records described to the AP, the joint U.S. and Afghan patrol requested backup after being hit by mortar and small arms fire by Taliban militants.

Before responding, the joint U.S.-Afghan patrol first checked with the Pakistani army, which reported it had no troops in the area, the military account said.

Some two hours later, still hunting the insurgents — who had by then apparently fled in the direction of Pakistani border posts — the U.S. commander spotted what he thought was a militant encampment, with heavy weapons mounted on tripods.

The joint patrol called for the airstrikes at around 2:21 a.m. Pakistani time, not realizing the encampment was apparently the Pakistani border post.

Records show the aerial response included Apache attack helicopters and an AC-130 gunship.

U.S. officials are working on the assumption the Taliban chose the location for the first attack to create just such confusion and draw U.S. and Pakistani forces into firing on each other, according to U.S. officials briefed on the operation.

At the White House, spokesman Jay Carney said President Barack Obama considers the Pakistani deaths a tragedy, and said the administration is determined to investigate.

The Pentagon released a four-page memo from Mattis directing Clark to determine what happened, which units were involved, which ones did or did not cross the border, how the operation was coordinated, and what caused the deaths and injuries.

Mattis also asked Clark to develop recommendations about how border operations could be improved, and said the final report should be submitted by December 23.

The details of the airstrike emerged as aftershocks were reverberating across the U.S. military and diplomatic landscape Monday, threatening communications and supply lines for the Afghan war and the success of an upcoming international conference.

While U.S. officials expressed regret and sympathy over the cross-border incident, they are not acknowledging blame, amid conflicting reports about who fired first.

The airstrike was politically explosive as well as deadly, coming as U.S. officials were working to repair relations with the Pakistanis after a series of major setbacks, including the U.S. commando raid into Pakistan that killed Osama bin Laden in May.

In recent weeks, military leaders had begun expressing some optimism that U.S.-Pakistan military cooperation along the border was beginning to improve. U.S. Army Maj. Gen. Daniel Allyn told Pentagon reporters just last Tuesday that incidents of firing from Pakistan territory had tapered off somewhat in recent weeks.

Speaking to reporters Monday, Pentagon press secretary George Little stressed the need for a strong military relationship with Pakistan.

"The Pakistani government knows our position on that, and that is we do regret the loss of life in this incident, and we are investigating it," said Little.

The military fallout began almost immediately.

Pakistan has blocked vital supply routes for U.S.-led troops in Afghanistan and demanded Washington vacate a base used by American drones. Pakistan ordered CIA employees to mothball their drone operation at Pakistan's Shamsi air base within two weeks, a senior Pakistani official said. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss intelligence matters.

On the diplomatic front, Pakistan said Tuesday it will boycott an international conference on Afghanistan next week to protest the incident.

The decision to boycott the Bonn, Germany, conference was made during a Pakistani Cabinet meeting in the city of Lahore, said three officials who attended the meeting. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to talk to the media ahead of an official announcement.

The State Department also issued a new warning for U.S. citizens in Pakistan. It said some U.S. government personnel working in Pakistan were being recalled to Islamabad and warned Americans to be on guard for possible retaliation. U.S. citizens in Pakistan are being told to travel in pairs, avoid crowds and demonstrations and keep a low profile.

That was on my local CBS affiliate's website today.

If they really were lured into it, then I would not put it past Pakistan to have used ties to Islamic extremists to get it happening.

**Jihadin**

40K troops coming out next year...sooner the better and let the Afghani forces take over their provence.

**chromedog**

Not like they could f*ck it up as badly as anyone else.

Place has ALWAYs been a gakhole.

**CT GAMER**

This was no accident.

Someone on the receiving end of that strike pissed someone off...

**SOFDC**

I bet two extra large duncan donut coffee that ROE was not violated

Now why did you go and do that? Now, not only have you made a bet I wouldn't take in a lifetime, but now I can't get your delicious donuts. At least I've got krispy kremes.

**Pyriel-**

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-15955179

Maybe they didnt get the message the last time they were hit.

Not easy knowing the good guys from the bad with pakistani ISI involved in helping the "taliban".

**Samus_aran115**

Vulcan wrote:Let's see. The SINGLE most wanted terrorist in the world... was found hiding less than a mile from a major Pakistani military facility. Hmm.

Does anyone else get the feeling Islamabad was never really on our side in this whole thing?

Yes. The Pakistaniis (pakistanites?, eh) or at least the pakastanii government seems to be aware that it was (and possibly still is) protecting international fugitives linked to terrorist activities. That's (in our definition at least) unacceptable.

I don't know what's preventing us from taking action against them, but I wouldn't trust them in anything anymore. For all we know, the air strike was a deliberate attack that doesn't deserve any apology.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

chromedog wrote:Not like they could f*ck it up as badly as anyone else.

Place has ALWAYS been a gakhole.

Agreed. Five thousand years ago it was a gakhole. It will STAY a gakhole for eternity, most likely.

I support our government and it's motives for the most part, but this whole crusade to 'fix' afghanistan is a mistake.

**ShumaGorath**

They should probably stop aiding the enemy then.

**Ouze**

Of course the Taliban was running towards a Pakistani border checkpoint. I always run to my friends when I get in over my head, too.

I'll hold my outrage until there is some sort of confirmation that the Americans were not, in fact, returning fire. I'm aware accidents happen and friendly fire is a reality of warfare, but the facts haven't yet be determined here yet in my opinion.

**d-usa**

Ouze wrote:Of course the Taliban was running towards a Pakistani border checkpoint. I always run to my friends when I get in over my head, too.

I now have a mental picture of a Taliban General Lee making a run for the county line...

**Ahtman**

Jihadin wrote:40K troops coming out next year...

We'll have our very own Space MArines by next year? Hot damn. I thought they would be much farther off than that.

Seriously, how could no one catch that on a Warhammer forum?

**Jihadin**

Its the surge troops...and I didn't notice that either lol and I typed it in.

**Tyyr**

It's always much easier to discriminate targets when there's actually some difference between them.

I swear, every time someone in the military talks about our Pakistani "allies" they just have to chuckle.

**Monster Rain**

Ahtman wrote:Seriously, how could no one catch that on a Warhammer forum?

I wondered what he meant, but couldn't be arsed to pursue the issue.

**Rented Tritium**

I don't really know what to think about this since so much of it is obviously classified.

There just isn't enough actual information to make a judgement call about this attack.

**AustonT**

d-usa wrote:
Ouze wrote:Of course the Taliban was running towards a Pakistani border checkpoint. I always run to my friends when I get in over my head, too.

I now have a mental picture of a Taliban General Lee making a run for the county line...

Not quite Taliban but it came up in the image search.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
These must be Marines, that looks like an M60A5 behind them

**Jihadin**

Their SMAJ just walking away shaking his head. He had to...I do the same....now if they want to go out the Wire in it..Uncle Jesse says "F" no wih some authority....but park it up near the ECP so all can see.....actually....hello my new FoB runner

**AustonT**

Lol he probably would, it's photoshopped though. Trust those signal tards paint everything orange and in a day it's not orange anymore...the image is too clean.

**ShumaGorath**

AustonT wrote:Lol he probably would, it's photoshopped though. Trust those signal tards paint everything orange and in a day it's not orange anymore...the image is too clean.

That and the coloring is utterly unrealistic and was just an orange matte on a color layer style.

**Monster Rain**

Where's a photoshop of Lt. Pike pepperspraying the angry Pakistanis?

I'm waiting, Dakka.

**Samus_aran115**

Rented Tritium wrote:I don't really know what to think about this since so much of it is obviously classified.

There just isn't enough actual information to make a judgement call about this attack.

We won't hear any official facts until we declare war on pakistan, or until they admit their fault. Simple as that. There's obviously a reason they haven't gotten to the bottom of it.

**dogma**

Rented Tritium wrote:I don't really know what to think about this since so much of it is obviously classified.

There just isn't enough actual information to make a judgement call about this attack.

This, basically.

Though Dempsey probably shouldn't have used the phrase "absolutely not" when asked if there was anything to apologize for, assuming that the quote was properly contextualized (and may not have been).

**Vulcan**

Samus_aran115 wrote:
Vulcan wrote:Let's see. The SINGLE most wanted terrorist in the world... was found hiding less than a mile from a major Pakistani military facility. Hmm.

Does anyone else get the feeling Islamabad was never really on our side in this whole thing?

Yes. The Pakistaniis (pakistanites?, eh) or at least the pakastanii government seems to be aware that it was (and possibly still is) protecting international fugitives linked to terrorist activities. That's (in our definition at least) unacceptable.

I don't know what's preventing us from taking action against them, but I wouldn't trust them in anything anymore. For all we know, the air strike was a deliberate attack that doesn't deserve any apology.

Nukes?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

chromedog wrote:Not like they could f*ck it up as badly as anyone else.

Place has ALWAYS been a gakhole.

Agreed. Five thousand years ago it was a gakhole. It will STAY a gakhole for eternity, most likely.

I support our government and it's motives for the most part, but this whole crusade to 'fix' afghanistan is a mistake.

**Frazzled**

Vulcan wrote:
Samus_aran115 wrote:
Vulcan wrote:Let's see. The SINGLE most wanted terrorist in the world... was found hiding less than a mile from a major Pakistani military facility. Hmm.

Does anyone else get the feeling Islamabad was never really on our side in this whole thing?

Yes. The Pakistaniis (pakistanites?, eh) or at least the pakastanii government seems to be aware that it was (and possibly still is) protecting international fugitives linked to terrorist activities. That's (in our definition at least) unacceptable.

I don't know what's preventing us from taking action against them, but I wouldn't trust them in anything anymore. For all we know, the air strike was a deliberate attack that doesn't deserve any apology.

Nukes?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

chromedog wrote:Not like they could f*ck it up as badly as anyone else.

Place has ALWAYS been a gakhole.

Agreed. Five thousand years ago it was a gakhole. It will STAY a gakhole for eternity, most likely.

I support our government and it's motives for the most part, but this whole crusade to 'fix' afghanistan is a mistake.

Actually, some 700 years ago, it was a center of learing and easily the most advanced place in Eurasia. Then Ghenghis Khan rolled through...

**notprop**

Actually less than 50 years ago Afghanistan was some what of a leader in progressive rule/rights in the middle east. Then the Russians roles into town.....

**Jihadin**

Afghanistan was a stepping stone into the middle east for russia....just that some haji's disagree with their plan...of course...we keep running into who we thought we're "operators" ie SF/S.T./Delta.......then we just took it for granted that russia left a lot of.....um...sons behind

**dogma**

Afghanistan isn't in the Middle East.

**youbedead**

dogma wrote:Afghanistan isn't in the Middle East.

But its's hot, and sandy and full of brown people surely it must be the middle east... wait

crap