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Hi guys,

I am collecting a 1000 point army and I've already made a good list. Only in that list, I put a predator with AC and HB sponsons. His role was to support my Rhino with 10 marines inside, only to fail miserably. i can scrap some stuff to have about a 100 free points. but what should i take? another setup for the Predator, a Vindicator, or a whirlwind? or maybe even another dreadnought. please share your thoughts.

Thanks!

I would go with a dreadnought (take away the closes combat weapon and give in anti tank weapons like a las and a missile launcher)

I like the whirlwind. If you stick it in a ruin you can use it to blast away for a surprisingly long time before your opponent sees how dangerous it is

Who're you fighting? Mech-heavy IG list you want lascannon preditors, against MEQ probably a vindicator (the one with the demolisher cannon).
As a guard player, i like it when my opponant loads up on dreadnaughts. They're pretty easy to kill.

I want it to be generally a good choice. i don't have a big army yet, so no staples at all. it is for casual games.

The heavy support options in Codex: Space Marines vary quite a bit in function and durability.
- A predator with lascannon sponsons and an autocannon is solid anti-tank. The lascannon turret is too expensive for what it does, but heavy bolter sponsons make it an effective infantry killer.

- Thunderfire cannons are fragile, but incredible against hordes of light infantry. I take one almost every game; just stick them in a ruin with the Techmarine's 3+ improved cover, and it can actually stand up to some kind of fire.

- Whirlwinds are absolutely awful. While not expensive, they're not powerful either. They don't put out enough fire to kill hordes effectively, and sure as hell can't touch anything as tough as a Space Marine. They do nothing a squad of tactical Marines couldn't.

- Vindicators are potentially awesome, but are the biggest fire magnets in the game as far as I can tell. Common sense is that 1 is none, 2 is 1, and 3 is 1 and a half. If your opponent has any sort of anti-tank fire, it will be drawn to these right off the bat. Once your Vindicators fire though, well, it's pure magic.

- Land Raiders are the last heavy support option. Each has something they're good at, but I like the Crusader the best. With the way its weapons are laid out, it can fire every gun every time it moves 6" as opposed to just 2 weapons like the Redeemer/Godhammer. It also has the highest transport capacity. The Redeemer is pretty good too as long as you're fighting Marines, but it has to get closer than I'd like to get. The Godhammer is kind of schizophrenic, since it isn't sure if it wants to shoot tanks or disgorge troops into the front line.

I would say that a Land Raider might be a bit much for a 1000 point army list, but predators are definitely solid at that points level. Sorry your pred isn't cutting it!

something worth thinking about. but i thought the AT dread could really dish out some punishment too. and if 1 weapon gets destroyed it still can lash some damage out. i don't know with the predator because for some reason the autocannon is not doing enough in a game for me. i have the feeling that it isn't that good vs tanks, and it isn't that good against infantry. i think i will try the Dread now with TL las and missile launcher. but i will also try the pred some more with the Las sponons.

anyway thanx a lot for the help guys!

(love how i can get so much help as a noob via this forum, and everyone is willing to help, like that a lot! )

The autocannon is okay vs. tanks, but it's pretty useful against light armor, like rhinos, Ork trukks, and catching the side armor on an Imperial Guard Chimera. I'm not a huge fan of missile launchers myself, but they can do okay. I'd rather give a dreadnought a close combat weapon and have it advance and fire.

E: Then again, as long as you don't glue the arms onto the dread you can just swap them out every game.

Space Marine vehicles and heavy weapons seem to have that niche where its the right amount of points for a good dose of firepower.

Dreadnaughts are one of the best staples Space Marine players can field; relatively cheap, variety of weapons, and decent survivability. They are by far a good workhorse for any army you might face.

Predators remind me of a light tank. Dunno why, maybe its because I play Tau and Guard religiously. Depending on what you're facing, I'd take the Auto-cannon Turret and Las cannon sponsons for armor anything.

Whirlwinds seem rather weak-ish in a Space Marine Codex considering they don't have much artillery from the get-go.

Vindicators are pretty good if you have an aggressive army (Mech or Jump). A Strength 10 pie plate does wonders for crowd control,.

Vindicators are best at just saying "These 24 inches are MINE!" and nobody will usually challenge that until they get blown up. I run 3 with my Iron Warriors.

Also, Dreadnoughts are elites choices, so they're not heavy support even if they can share a similar role.

It depends on what your fighting:
if you are fighting infantry heavy/hoard armies a predator with AC and HB sponsons
If you are fighting mech/veicle heavy lascannons all around on pread
Whirlwind is quite bad, vindicator will atract a lot of fire
land raider seems too expensive for your pts

Never go all lascannons on a pred. Its just way too expensive. The sweet spot is autocannon with the side lascannons. 120 points for an av13 front tank with 4 shots that can pop most armor is pretty good.

Thanks for all the replies! I will try the dread, but I will surely try the predator too

Vindicators are fun, ran one a while back and loved it. I agree with the wisdom that running at least two is a little necessary.

Take 3 vindicators and don't look back.
Even if you don't win you'll have fun...

when i upgrade to 1500 point i think i'll take three, heard that that is insane

Whirlwinds used to be absolutely beastly too. :( Of course, I wasn't playing against mostly Marine armies and "accidentally" mis-guessing and having the blast land on a swirling melee seemed to clear out dangerous opposition like Howling Banshees pretty quickly, lol.

Depending on the rest of your list, if you have more anti tank than anti infantry then take a vindicator, or a predator with hb sponsons and autocannons. For Anti tank, take Devestators with anti tank (Las, Melta, Missle) or a predator with Las sponsons and autocannon.

If all else fails, take an Ironclad or a Venerable dreadnought.

(DONT FORGET EXTRA ARMOR, 15 POINTS TO MAKE SURE YOU CAN MOVE IF YOU GET CMCS)

Vincentz0r wrote:when i upgrade to 1500 point i think i'll take three, heard that that is insane

At 1500 points there's not much that can deal with three of them. I haven't played a game that size with my Iron Warriors in some time, but I'm sure if I did they would do pretty well.

Yeah about the extra armor, is that really any good because it didn't look that good to me. anyone has experience with that?

Extra armor is only really worth it on Dreadnoughts. Land Raiders can always move, and it's too pricey for rhinos. Honestly, I'd even then only put it on dreadnoughts that I wanted to punch things and I had the points left over. Ironclads get it anyway, so frankly I don't see the point in getting it almost ever. There's usually something else in your army that needs those 15 points.

I would say Pred's they are cheap and bring some av to SM, you can also make them into awsome tank busters.

At 1k points you won't have enough units to saturate your opponents target choices so those things like a Pred or Vindicator stand out more and will draw fire much faster. Things like Predators and Vindicators really come into their own in larger point battles because they don't immediately get popped. Don't write off your Pred yet!

Killian wrote:At 1k points you won't have enough units to saturate your opponents target choices so those things like a Pred or Vindicator stand out more and will draw fire much faster. Things like Predators and Vindicators really come into their own in larger point battles because they don't immediately get popped. Don't write off your Pred yet!

whilst i agree that they are a mega fire magnet, that is fire that is not on your marines or dreadnoughts or transports ect. it brings a nice tactical element as they are only 65pts you can use them as a clever divertion

I know your budget it 100pts, though I'd recommend using a Devastator squad as your choice. 8 man squad with 2 missiles, 1 lascannon, 1 plasma cannon and 4 standard marines. If positioned correctly they can cover more than just your Rhino as well as requiring your opponent to expend a lot of firepower to get rid of them, even more so if they are in a fortified area or ruins etc.

You'd have to drop a few things to get more points free, but would be worth giving a try if only once. And yes, we were all newbs once, and dakka is a very helpful community.

Failing that, drop a marine and go with a 7man squad with 3 heavy weapons to save on points. Otherwise, a Dreadnought would be a worthy choice.

I kinda like the master of the forge deadnaught list.

100 points, thunder fire cannon. easy enough

Dakkapred (predator with Autocannon and HB sponsons). Great for transport hunting. Just don't fall into the trap of paying for the Lascannon turret or sponsons.

I would take a vindicator, demolisher canons are amazing and
you can move 6 and shoot 24. Plus you can use a siege
shield.

RAVEN 97 wrote:I would take a vindicator, demolisher canons are amazing and
you can move 6 and shoot 24. Plus you can use a siege
shield.

Your formatting is really strange. Putting paragraph breaks in mid-sentence is really hard to read.

Vindicators are great, but they're awful for killing transports. It's not that they're not good at it, but that their firepower is wasted on such a thin target. A vindicator supported by some long range fire support is something special though.