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So I overhear a couple of my co-workers talking about my 40k hobby and one of them (a highly devout, VERY religious man) mentions that he believes that Warhammer is witchcraft. I have heard a few weird ones in my time, D&D summons the devil, video games make us kill people ect. But this one was the first time I heard this one. I'm not really schooled up on witchcraft, but do the figurines really look that much like vodoo dolls or something?
Anyhow, just a weird experience. Anyone on dakka have something similar?
Some people live under a rock and think that dancing is tempting people to fornicate as well. Every religion has extremists that take things out of context and blow them out of proportion, and any game with "magic" is an easy target for such nut jobs.
I shrug it off as accepting that they are simply morons who are misinformed or simply believe things that aren't true(the Bible doesn't say that toy soldiers are the gateway to hell). Pretending to have things like magic and daemons is exactly that, pretend. I'm sure God is ok with pretending, what with the advent of an imagination and all.
It is unfortunate that certain religions get a bad rep from fanatics, and atheists or believers of other religions use them as fodder for their arguments. Luckily many atheists are also very misinformed so it makes for funny debates with those who are ignorant(on both sides).
This is also why I avoid the OT forum, too many extreme atheists and evolutionists for my taste, most of whom pretend to be highly learned people.
"Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! ... It’s become the promotions department of a toy company." -- Rick Priestly
Next time, wildly agree with with. tell him it is witchcraft. Better yet, show him one of the Chaos Daemons codexes or army books. Then wait for the fun to begin!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Aerethan wrote:Some people live under a rock and think that dancing is tempting people to fornicate as well. Every religion has extremists that take things out of context and blow them out of proportion, and any game with "magic" is an easy target for such nut jobs.
I shrug it off as accepting that they are simply morons who are misinformed or simply believe things that aren't true(the Bible doesn't say that toy soldiers are the gateway to hell). Pretending to have things like magic and daemons is exactly that, pretend. I'm sure God is ok with pretending, what with the advent of an imagination and all.
It is unfortunate that certain religions get a bad rep from fanatics, and atheists or believers of other religions use them as fodder for their arguments. Luckily many atheists are also very misinformed so it makes for funny debates with those who are ignorant(on both sides).
This is also why I avoid the OT forum, too many extreme atheists and evolutionists for my taste, most of whom pretend to be highly learned people.
I'm religous yet I believe in evolution...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/27 12:57:24
DoctorZombie wrote:Next time, wildly agree with with. tell him it is witchcraft. Better yet, show him one of the Chaos Daemons codexes or army books. Then wait for the fun to begin!
I love this idea. See how long you can get him to try and convince you of his viewpoint. Make a game of it. Or mock him merciless every time you can about how you trifle in witchcraft on the weekends with the 14 year olds down at the toy store.
"Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! ... It’s become the promotions department of a toy company." -- Rick Priestly
DoctorZombie wrote:Next time, wildly agree with with. tell him it is witchcraft. Better yet, show him one of the Chaos Daemons codexes or army books. Then wait for the fun to begin!
I thought of it. His reaction was due to me assembling some Thunderhammer/Storm Shield Terminators I got for Christmas. I could only imagine his reaction to the chaos materials.
I never said that evolutionists have to be atheists, or that religious people can't be evolutionists. I simply said that OT is full of both atheists and evolutionists(often at the same time but not always).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thaylen wrote:
DoctorZombie wrote:Next time, wildly agree with with. tell him it is witchcraft. Better yet, show him one of the Chaos Daemons codexes or army books. Then wait for the fun to begin!
I thought of it. His reaction was due to me assembling some Thunderhammer/Storm Shield Terminators I got for Christmas. I could only imagine his reaction to the chaos materials.
Give him the Daemon Prince that is flipping the bird to him as a gift. That'll teach him.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/27 13:00:37
"Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! ... It’s become the promotions department of a toy company." -- Rick Priestly
DoctorZombie wrote:Next time, wildly agree with with. tell him it is witchcraft. Better yet, show him one of the Chaos Daemons codexes or army books. Then wait for the fun to begin!
I love this idea. See how long you can get him to try and convince you of his viewpoint. Make a game of it. Or mock him merciless every time you can about how you trifle in witchcraft on the weekends with the 14 year olds down at the toy store.
Then ask this guy if wanted to join him at the local FLGS or GW store.
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Aerethan wrote:
Give him the Daemon Prince that is flipping the bird to him as a gift. That'll teach him.
What a great idea! And a Daemon codex, and then say: "You can start too! Just use this book and you'll have a daemo prince aiding you!"
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/27 13:03:53
Is it cruel to pick on fanatics that will persecute you for not agreeing with them?
I've always wanted to butt heads with Westborough Baptist members just because they are more fanatical than nazis and the KKK combined.
That being said, Red State wasn't that great of a movie.
"Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! ... It’s become the promotions department of a toy company." -- Rick Priestly
Aerethan wrote:I'm sure God is ok with pretending, what with the advent of an imagination and all.
Yeah, I'm also pretty sure that an imaginary being is ok with people using their imagination.
sigh... take it to OT if you want to start saying that what people believe in is imaginary. I was making a point, not opening this up for the atheists to come barging in with opinions. I never said God exists, I meant that IF He exists, He's fine with imagination as it would be on of His designs.
We don't need to derail this into a pro/against God thread. Really, let's be above such bickering.
"Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! ... It’s become the promotions department of a toy company." -- Rick Priestly
Well honestly I do think it is due to people being misinformed or ignorant of the topic. I play 40k and read the fluff etc. But never have I seen where I must mutter an incantation before the game or any time during. I am also a devout Christian who goes to church every Sunday and yadda yadda, but I really would like to start a Chaos army.... I'm a very sinful boy
40K:
The Purge Vracksian Renegades WAAAAAGH Scrappa Death Skullz
Benamint wrote:Well honestly I do think it is due to people being misinformed or ignorant of the topic. I play 40k and read the fluff etc. But never have I seen where I must mutter an incantation before the game or any time during. I am also a devout Christian who goes to church every Sunday and yadda yadda, but I really would like to start a Chaos army.... I'm a very sinful boy
Admit that you pray to the dice gods on important rolls! Such things are meant in jest of course, as no sane person believes in a god dedicated to rolling dice.
I see no problem with Christians playing Chaos, it's just a game, and as you say, there isn't any invoking of spirits or such heresy, at least not in any sincere sense.
"Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! ... It’s become the promotions department of a toy company." -- Rick Priestly
Aerethan wrote:
Admit that you pray to the dice gods on important rolls! Such things are meant in jest of course, as no sane person believes in a god dedicated to rolling dice.
I do, and who are you to say that what people can and can't believe?
I always pray fervently to the dice Gods before any significant roll, and if They are feeling benevolent towards Their flock then They bring forth the sixes and everyone rejoices (or at least I do, my oponents usually not so much)!
The biggest reason is what, there is magic, demons (daemons), people turning against the one single light in an otherwise dark universe, a man that is said to rival the strength of gods, people making dark pacts with demons.
Yup, sounds like Puritan America all over again. If you don't mind, I'll be over here getting my torch and pitchfork ready.
Seriously though, tell the guy to bugger off, it's a game. You should tell him Monopoly is leading him down the path of avarice and greedy habits.
If he responds with, "Oh, it's just a game." just go like this:
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/27 13:27:59
DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+ Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics
In my experience, most extremist are very poorly educated on the subjects they rally against. Gaming is just one off many. Harry Potter was a good one when it got popular. The most common reason I have been told is that to know the subject is to be corrupted by it. I reality, most of the fanatics are just going off what they have been told by a superior fanatic and are just mindlessly following their lead.
Sadly, religions propagate this attitude as it is easier to lead an uneducated populous. Look at middle ages Christianity. We still eat fish on Fridays in most western countries because the church said so back then. The 7 deadly sins are still considered doctrine even though they aren't actually in the Bible.
I am not picking on religion. There are other types of extremists as well. Religious ones are just more common and the most likely to be against our toys and games. Or is it totems and rituals?
The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn? And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude.
Shepherd23 wrote:Religious ones are just more common and the most likely to be against our toys and games. Or is it totems and rituals?
Mazes and monsters.
Poor Tom Hanks has to live with that nightmare the rest of his life. And I kid you not when I say that movie was cited as an example of why D&D is a bad thing and that is why I shouldn't be playing it. My response was more than likely less than civil at that time. I had an attitude in my youth.
The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn? And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude.
Some people think that D&D books can actually conjure daemons and curse people, they can't be reasoned with because they are idiots. People like this have a very bizarre grip on reality, if it wasn't for the fact that they are often the same people that want to do dangerous things like burn books and abolish proper science teaching then we should pity them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/27 14:46:01
Howard A Treesong wrote:Some people think that D&D books can actually conjure daemons and curse people, they can't be reasoned with because they are idiots. People like this have a very bizarre grip on reality, if it wasn't for the fact that they are often the same people that want to do dangerous things like burn books and abolish proper science teaching then we should pity them.
To be fair, those same people also think that a book supposedly written hundreds of years ago contains the answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe, and everything, so why wouldn't some books written in the 20th century be able to actually conjure daemons and curse people?
Of Course its Witchcraft. All them skulls are a dead giveaway.
I used to work with a guy who was convinced that AD&D was satanic and there was no telling him otherwise. We had many long conversations about how the game is played and the many different monsters and spells. It was as if logic ceased to function. Brainwashing is a dangerous thing.
Years ago the church youth group I was in was going to have a rally in which secular records (rock) and books (comics) would be burned. I had just watched the episode of The World at War in which the Nazis came to power and were having book burning bonfires. When I mentioned that the planned book burning was similar to what the Nazis had done... They did NOT like the comparison.
Anyways it isn't a good idea to provoke your fanatic. If he continues on about it there are workplace harassment policies which will provide a remedy for the situation.
I struggle to pity anyone with such a blinkered outlook on life. I've heard of this sort of thing happening but never directed towards me. It kind of reminds me of Mary Whitehouse in the 60's, If its against that persons moral judgement then it should be banned, no matter what the general populace think of it! WTF is that all about?
As for the witchcraft nonsense, if he is half as religious as he says he is maybe you should challenge him a little bit. Ask him how Jesus pulled off that famous Loaves and Fishes trick. Or how he came back from the dead. That'll stump him!
Other than that try and get him too read about the fall of Horus and the uprising of the Traitor Legions, which so obviously borrows from the fall of Satan etc in the old testament....including the names.
Yes. Religion can be scary. Does it turn thinking people into mindless zombies? No. Or rather, it does just as much as video games, sports, mini-wargaming, etc. fill-in-the-blank here ___________. Fanaticism in anything makes people unthinking zombies! Just look at the GW fanboys who gladly open their wallet for anything with a GW label on it.
This is getting OT so to bring it back on topic...
Most people I've run into who thought D&D and Warhammer and its ilk were witchcraft were the same folks that were burning Harry Potter books. If they can't have a good time exercising their imagination then that's their problem. Leave me out of it!
Now, I've got some chickens I need to go sacrifice for better dice rolls....
Well technically in the Warhammer universe worship of anything but the emperor is evil correct? so wouldnt christians have joined the Chaos Space Marines (Alpha Legion DUN DUN DUN)
Hmm evil is kinda grey in 40k. The emperiom of man is really more evil than good.... Chaos is about as much of an abomination to Christianity as worshiping the emperor. You could argue they would join the Tau empire, or stay with the empire because "god" could have come in the form of the emperor... Again really shaky limbs on all of those in regards to what Christianity would do.
My Armies: 8000 , 3000 , 8000 High Elf, 10000+ and goblin, 5000 Dwarf
This is some of the stuff religious fanatics condemn! Small fuzzy (elemental) animals and Minecraft! How do you think your army of witches, murderers and impossibilities will come across?
Veteran Sergeant wrote:If 40K has Future Rifles, and Future Tanks, and Future Artillery, and Future Airplanes and Future Grenades and Future Bombs, then contextually Future Swords seem somewhat questionable to use, since it means crossing Future Open Space to get Future Shot At.
Polonius wrote:I categorically reject any statement that there is such a thing as too much boob.
Coolyo294 wrote:Short answer: No.
Long answer: Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
Space Marines (Anything but BA or GK): 6k
Tau: 3k
5th Company 2000 pts
615 pts
, 3000 
, 8000 High Elf, 10000+ 
and goblin, 5000 Dwarf
